Fear not the dread French signposts....

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Routes Departementales (D+number) - Those highways that depend on the departements, an administrative division of France (Region->Departement). Their condition depends on how rich the departement is. These are the equivalent of the UK’s B roads, I guess you get the picture.
'D' Roads are definitely NOT the equivalent of B Roads. They are an absolute mixture. The white roads on the map are generally B type roads. D Roads can be (especially the declassified 'N' ones) of any standard and can have very quick 110 KPH sections of dual carriageway. Unlike the UK you can't tell by the number (ie A4 pretty big, A45 - not so big, A454 getting smaller etc)

They are classified as departmental link roads. - Sometimes within a department sometimes between departments - I have yet to see the logic. Some of them cross three departments (!) like the D618 and the D623 which do the Gers, Haute Garonne and go into the Ariege.

(BTW: You must excuse me - I have just done my french highway code exam - LOL):beerjug:
 
Typically a temporary route of some description.

No, it is a shortening of Bisonette, or something like that.

The principal Bis routes, criss-crossing France - marked with the distinctive Bis signs - are far from temporary as they are the main 'holiday / touring' roads, 'Itineraire Bis' as Michelin call them. See Michelin map 726.

It can also mean small. Maisonettes, for instance, part of a larger house (say 10 rue....) might be 10bis.

It also appears when the road might have branch off, down a smaller track. Say the D12 and a minor offshoot the D12bis, to save renumbering it.
 
I stand corrected.
Yellow BIS is temporary. I'll quote the code - translated -
'BIS Routes permit the decongestion of principal routes that are busy at holidays or weekends. The BIS Route permits the fluidity of traffic. It is never mandatory'
(et ben voila - et desolee)
 
'D' Roads are definitely NOT the equivalent of B Roads. They are an absolute mixture. The white roads on the map are generally B type roads. D Roads can be (especially the declassified 'N' ones) of any standard and can have very quick 110 KPH sections of dual carriageway. Unlike the UK you can't tell by the number (ie A4 pretty big, A45 - not so big, A454 getting smaller etc)

They are classified as departmental link roads. - Sometimes within a department sometimes between departments - I have yet to see the logic. Some of them cross three departments (!) like the D618 and the D623 which do the Gers, Haute Garonne and go into the Ariege.

(BTW: You must excuse me - I have just done my french highway code exam - LOL):beerjug:

OK, I really shouldn't be bothered, but in case anyone is in any doubt:

French D roads are NOT exactly like British B roads.

French N roads are NOT exactly like British A roads.

French sub-divisions (beneath D) of smaller roads are NOT exactly like British unclassified roads.

The British concept of B roads does not translate exactly into French D roads.

The British concept of A roads does not translate exactly into French N roads.

French motorways are different to British motorways.

British motorways are different to French motorways.

The French drive on the right, the British drive on the left. Except for my mother, who has lived so long in France she forgot.

Happy?

Well done on the French Highway cod (mizspellin delibrate)
 
The N12 (E50) is still very much there (or was in 2007) and the D712 as well, running broadly parallel and then merging with the N12. They are different and separate roads, going in the same direction.
I did check - and according to viamichelin there are parts as you describe. This situation is quite rare (in my experience) - But then France is a big country.... good exercise tho' I really need to know this stuff.:eek
I have also tried to get a definition for BIS in french. 'Enlargement' or possibly extension is the best I can get - will try a paper disctionary if I can be arsed ever.
 
I stand corrected.
Yellow BIS is temporary. I'll quote the code - translated -
'BIS Routes permit the decongestion of principal routes that are busy at holidays or weekends. The BIS Route permits the fluidity of traffic. It is never mandatory'
(et ben voila - et desolee)

Yes, they are the less congested touring routes. A classic is the one that bids you farewell (vous quittez Bis, or summat like that) at Troyes, leaving a Bis route (less congested / touring road that has avoided the motorway, but was voluntary to drive on) that has run all the way to the north of France from south of Lyon / Cavaillon / Marseille. Quite a long way, really. Then, when you come the other way, there is a sign welcoming you to the uncongested / touring route south from Troyes. I think it just says, in beautiful simplicity, Dijon.

Some of the signs are yellow and some are green. Both have been there for years.

Of course you are not obliged to use them, as you can chose to go down the motorway or by whatever route you chose.

Unless of course there are some roadworks, in which case you may be obliged to take a temporary (bis = small, it does not translate exactly) route around the problem.
 
Their condition depends on how rich the departement is. These are the equivalent of the UK’s B roads, I guess you get the picture.
My point was not that there are no direct comparisons but that this statement does not paint a true picture of what you might expect.
One thing on the condition of the roads is it does seem to depend on how much traffic they think will travel down it.
(Speaking for way down south) - ie the bit of france NOT covered by this thread...:topic
I am starting to believe that they want to start pushing traffic onto the autoroutes and nationals. Then I watch them take a piece of national road that used to be fun to ride and not only downgrade it to a 'D' but improve it also - and that's in a 'poor' department. In terms of route planning - and I guess this is what the thread is about - then it is by no means a given that a D road will be lesser used or poorly surfaced - which is the picture I get when I think of a british B road (but then I'm a little like Wapping's Mum - what does Marmite taste like, again?)
 
it means - 'out of dimensions' - a vehicle 4m30 high 2,55M wide unless there is a sign to show what the height and width dimensions are. So if you're in something big you make sure you avoid the restriction (or follow) the Hors Gabarit signs. - Quite often the type of tunnel in the picture will be forbidden to motorcycles.

Of course I know what Hors Gabarit means. It was a joke, to bring in whores, to enliven the tedium of road signs.
 
My point was not that there are no direct comparisons but that this statement does not paint a true picture of what you might expect.
One thing on the condition of the roads is it does seem to depend on how much traffic they think will travel down it.
(Speaking for way down south) - ie the bit of france NOT covered by this thread...:topic
I am starting to believe that they want to start pushing traffic onto the autoroutes and nationals. Then I watch them take a piece of national road that used to be fun to ride and not only downgrade it to a 'D' but improve it also - and that's in a 'poor' department. In terms of route planning - and I guess this is what the thread is about - then it is by no means a given that a D road will be lesser used or poorly surfaced - which is the picture I get when I think of a british B road (but then I'm a little like Wapping's Mum - what does Marmite taste like, again?)

There is no 'Bit of France' covered by this thread. What are you on about? The illustrative road signs I used were plucked from Google images, with no great thought as to their geography relative to anywhere else. It took me a while to find the right ones and they could just as easily have been around Argen, Auch, St Malo or Lille.

I'm sorry if - when I set out with the best of intentions to write a simple but reasonably accurate description of some particular French road furniture - I did not:

Paint exactly the right picture, or

Make an exact translation or comparison between road types, and

Create an exact letterage designation comparison, or

Make an exact allowance that sometimes it's just M. Bistro in his 2CV on the road but sometimes it's M. Plus-Grand in his camion, too.

I failed miserably to point out that the road surfaces can differ, even between similarly lettered roads, and

I also failed to make a clear and unequivocal statement that it is not an exact science, whilst

Possibly the greatest crime of all, I did not make it very plain that France is a very big country (actually I should have done that, as most people do not seem to know)

But you see (and it's the only - I hesitate to say best - excuse I have) I have never had to take a French highway cod test.

In short, sorry I got it all exactly wrong*.



* which is odd really, as you bowled in making an erroneous correction over the example in the road signs and screwed up completely the main meaning of Bis roads (twice). Then sought to pass off the reason for your basic errors as you live in the far SW corner of France, bringing a bizarre geographical twist to a thread that had nothing to do with French geography from the outset.



Go in peace.
 
The original post is now pointless as wapping now just escorts everyone around Europe.

The bloke deserves a knighthood!
 
Bis is an abbreviation of Bison fute (cunning bison) It was introduced in the mid seventies to highlight alternative routes during the mass migration of the French going on holiday. Bis, as in 19bis on a house number is our equivalent of 19a. I have to do this with the small house as the local Marie will not renumber all the rest of the street to take account of my new entrance.

Maps were produced in the 70's and 80's detailing all the alternative routes during the holiday period, with a picture of a smiling? bison. It really can get crazy on the first weekend of the summer holidays and the return in early September.
 
I would like to thank this kind gentleman for explaining why I did say to myself last year, "where the bloody hell has the signs gone" and "F*****g french, why the bloody hell don't they give you more time to react" and such things....
Brill explanation of a wonky system which is beset from the start with problems because its French. Lovely place though. I love the bit where different departments don't put up signs to the next town because they don't want people to go there. That alone explains so much.
The French signs were aided and abetted by my TomTom not wanting to navigate away from GB for awhile!
 
Very, very much appreciated.
I've driven in France many times and always managed to get from A to B (sometimes eventually).
This post, however, answers many of the questions I've often mused over along the way.
Furthermore it's going to come in mighty handily this summer when I head that way again with destinations set in stone but routes most definitely not.

Than Wapping. :clap:clap:clap
 
Excellent educational thread.

Can someone do Italian signs next please? Next to these the French system is a prime example of clarity and logic....
 
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