Road ride out

Quite :confused:

QUIET YOU:trippy:trippy:trippy


Going out with Sid next friday to confirm the route, any tracks will be easy and with-in everyones ability. Reckon on an hour for lunch, tea stops, maybe a visit to HMP Dartmoor museum and 100 miles top.


Probably me and some others will be tweaking and HELPING others who want to work on their bikes....
Don't forget Sid ain't kicking you off site on Sunday, some may have another ride out on the Sunday and then leave Monday :bounce1:bounce1
 
Trippy is a worrier

Just had 30 minute phone call with Trippy who is worried that if he leads the ride out he will be personally liable for all who follow him. He is then worried that one of you might have a fatal accident. He is then worried that either one of your relatives or Plod decide that the "ride leader" is responsible. Bit of a worrier that boy.

I tried to assure Trippy that nobody would ever consider him responsible...

I would therefore like to make it clear here that anyone who comes on the road ride does so wholly at their own risk. It is entirely up to them to decide on the acceptable risks of riding a motorcycle on the public highway. We will comply with the legal requirements at all times and keep wholly within all speed limits (we are on airheads after all...:rolleyes:) .

Time for bed.

Trippy has cured me of my insomnia.:)
 
Thanks trippy..best (nice) laugh I've had in ages.....remind me not to take you up in a microlight with me !!:D

Of course, I'll be bringing my legal representative with me on the run......just in case, you understand !!:augie
 
I have decided after a great deal of thought that I would rather not lead a ride out at an event organized on UKGSer for the following reason.

I have spoken to several people who have been on organized rideouts of late where people have been involved in accidents both injury and damage only. I deal with motorcycle accidents at work every week and I know that if we attended a fatal RTC and there were 10 other riders at the scene who had come from all over the country to an organized event and who were following me on a ride I had planned and was leading, it would be me who would be potenially answering questions in a coroners court and possibilly to the legal departments of insurance companies.

Call it how you like, but I have to ask myself if this is a position I want to be in without the insurance and legal support that an event run by a proper motorcycle club gives me and the answer has to be NO.

This subject has been debated here many times in the past and just googling GSCLUB rideout liability brings back a thread on this site from 2005 where Judge writes ....


In essence my understanding is this.

Scenario 1 - Informal

I ring up or PM a couple of mates, say where I'm going and when and where I will meet them. No briefing, no route given nil, zip nada.

I don't believe I have any responsibility/liability as an organiser in this given scenario


Scenario 2 - Formal

I post an announcement on a forum that I plan to organise a ride out, I invite people to join the ride out. I post route information, start times etc.

I believe in this scenario, in the event of an incident I might (correctly or incorrectly) be held responsible/liable for the ride out on which the incident occured.

These are two extremes and there are many levels in between which sit in the grey area.

I don't have to worry I can go both ways, I can and have followed the considered 'best practice' and had events covered under the scheme operated by the BMF through the GS Club UK and I have arranged informal gatherings also.

Whichever best suits the situation best
 
Considering you were the one that wanted a rideout, :rolleyes:
and also insisted on organising the same.
I think it's a bit of bad form to let us know that you are not interested this late in the day...
No doubt some fine upstanding Devon airhead rider will step in and fill your boots [maybe with piss] and offer to lead....
I'll pencil in a nice route and see if someone else will go for a ride, with anyone who wants too,:augie following :thumb2




SID !! I think Ann may win her bet :rolleyes:
 
Sounds like

grapes-print.jpg


to me:augie
 
I have decided after a great deal of thought that I would rather not lead a ride out at an event organized on UKGSer for the following reason.

I have spoken to several people who have been on organized rideouts of late where people have been involved in accidents both injury and damage only. I deal with motorcycle accidents at work every week and I know that if we attended a fatal RTC and there were 10 other riders at the scene who had come from all over the country to an organized event and who were following me on a ride I had planned and was leading, it would be me who would be potenially answering questions in a coroners court and possibilly to the legal departments of insurance companies.

Call it how you like, but I have to ask myself if this is a position I want to be in without the insurance and legal support that an event run by a proper motorcycle club gives me and the answer has to be NO.

This subject has been debated here many times in the past and just googling GSCLUB rideout liability brings back a thread on this site from 2005 where Judge writes ....


In essence my understanding is this.

Scenario 1 - Informal

I ring up or PM a couple of mates, say where I'm going and when and where I will meet them. No briefing, no route given nil, zip nada.

I don't believe I have any responsibility/liability as an organiser in this given scenario


Scenario 2 - Formal

I post an announcement on a forum that I plan to organise a ride out, I invite people to join the ride out. I post route information, start times etc.

I believe in this scenario, in the event of an incident I might (correctly or incorrectly) be held responsible/liable for the ride out on which the incident occured.

These are two extremes and there are many levels in between which sit in the grey area.

I don't have to worry I can go both ways, I can and have followed the considered 'best practice' and had events covered under the scheme operated by the BMF through the GS Club UK and I have arranged informal gatherings also.

Whichever best suits the situation best

Trippy

You are a good mate and I don't want to fall out with you but I think your post above is the biggest load of bollox you have ever posted!

I asked you many times exactly what it is that you think you could be liable for and you couldn't answer. Instead you just kept repeating third hand myths that you could be "liable". Liable for what? Causing death by dangerous driving? Racing on a public highway?

To be "liable" for anything you would either have to break the law or be guilty of negligence.

I am happy to go out on a ride out and if others choose to follow then that is there own peresonal responsibility. We are not charging money for this event, we are not saying that it is a event where we will take any responsibility for other riders over and above the normal duty of care due to fellow road users.

This attitude is similar to the issue discussed in the H&S Rant. Do people take responsibility for their own actions or do they want insurance to cover their own arse if thinks go wrong.

Everyone has different levels of risk. Some people will forego all safety nets and live a high risk life whilst others such as yourself want to be insured and covered for all eventualities. I tend to be more in the risk takers category as I firmly believe life is for living. I find it surprisingly that you even risk riding a motorcycle if you are so worried about "what if" scenarios.

I seriously think you have allowed yourself to be frightened off by misleading information and myths.

Worst case scenario, you lead a road ride and their is a fatal accident. The police would ask for witness statements from everyone in the group. Even if everyone else all unanimously cried "Its all Trippy's fault", the police would still have to prove that you were guilty of something (apart from being a pathological worrier). If you have not been negligent, you have nothing to worry about.
 
Now Trippy has bottled it :rolleyes:...we need to bring in a specialist ( it may cost but Sid and Proff are loaded :D ) so maybe we should contact Tarka:bounce1

At the end of the day, guys, the old saying applies to biking "who had hold of the handlebars".

We can all retire to the bar(s) instead...Trippy can get the first round in:)
 
FFS :blast:blast

I will lead a ride If no one else will step up and lead. dont know the area very well so will probably end up on the beach at westward ho! :D

what would the H&s brigade say about an inexpirienced leader leading :eek LOL
 
Nice one Bumpmuncher and the others who have stepped forwards, I'd lead myself but am being confined to workshop all day Saturday..
But a nice Bimble round Beautiful Devon lanes, up around the Dartmoor loop road at Oke with opportunity to have a little ford [or not] then probably to Oke station [might be puff puffs :)] then along to Sticklepath for another little used lane, as shown in Trippys recce pics then a gentle meander back to Sids for a damn good laugh :rob

If folk don't want to get feet wet or bikes muddy, there are ride arounds the mucky lanes etc:thumb2
 
I would be happy to lead, or help out, in a rideout. :thumb2
 
I asked you many times exactly what it is that you think you could be liable for and you couldn't answer. Instead you just kept repeating third hand myths that you could be "liable". Liable for what?

I am not just repeating a third hand myth as you put it. This is a subject that has been debated at length here many times before and one that some of the 'great minds' of UKGSer have failed to agree on.

You have in previous posts seen the likes of Tuned In say .. unless you can state true upheld claims in this country.... anything else is just scare mongering

Fanum states .. People are responsible for themselves under the road traffic act and various other construction/use type obligations- and as long as you don't injure them, cause them to injure themselves or give them advise that leaves you liable (like saying 'this ford is OK and safe to ride through) then you're ok..

As far as I'm aware these two moderators and the others who have made such reassurances are not legally trained.

On the other hand you have Judge who held the position of club manager and many others taking the view they do.

We discussed the matter in work and some of those involved including, a control room supervisor (an incident manager for police pursuts and the like), a Police officer (ex traffic) and a health & safety rep, were all of the same opinion ... a very very grey area, but all agreed that in the case of an incident you could possibilly be leaving yourself open to being held responsable / liable and not a position that any of them would volunteer to be put in.

Sorry if in Proffs opinion 3 weeks is short notice to cancel a rideout but I have made my decision, and yes I would still like to go on a ride if I can, I just am not prepared to put my name down as an organiser of it.

There is no reason to have a big debate about it now and get all worked up, I have made a decision that suits me and now I would just like to have a nice weekend, buy Kenny a drink and go out in Tarkas sidecar.
 
We discussed the matter in work and some of those involved including, a control room supervisor (an incident manager for police pursuts and the like), a Police officer (ex traffic) and a health & safety rep, were all of the same opinion ... a very very grey area, but all agreed that in the case of an incident you could possibilly be leaving yourself open to being held responsable / liable and not a position that any of them would volunteer to be put in.
.

You still haven't answered the question at all. What is it that you fear you will be responsible or liable for???? And why?

If a rider is following you and has a fatal accident, how do you think that you are responsible for that? Unless you are found to be directly negligent and that negligence caused the accident then there is nothing to worry about. I have enough confidence in my own ability to know that I can lead a ride out without being negligent enough to cause injury to others.

Conversely, even if you are not the designated "ride leader" but your actions cause a fatal accident then you would be liable if that was the case. Any liability would be based on your actions not on the title you give yourself.

Sorry but I really think you are being pathetic about this.
 
:blast
richardwilson.jpg

Trippy you're being a .i.:rolleyes:

look back into the history of the debates on this liability issue and it basically comes down to the 'club 'officials being bothered that they could be held liable if something nasty happened on a campsite that they had set up.......out on the road though, as you quoted me above, people are legally responsible for themselves and to their obligations under the road traffic act.

You also quoted my caveat.....just common sense- if i do a fords ride and tell everyone to hit the water at full speed to make it across and it turns out that the water is 10 foot deep and someone drowns, there's a pretty good chance I could be sued.
You're being ridiculous Jim, though it is of course your right to do so:rolleyes:
 
I take ride outs to morocco - last one had a guy badly smashed up, and i mean badly. But why should i be liable. Never gave it a second thought.

If everyone worries themselves silly about what might happen, and it'll all be my fault, i'll get the blame, what sorry, sad, pathetic people your all letting yourselves be turned into.

Roughy toughy adventure riders :comfort- Show some backbone and stand up to the nanny state :D
 
i hate to bring this up, but...

wasn't Pragmatix either sued or threatened with a law suit from the insurance company concerned, for an accident that happened on a ride out he was leading?

:augie
 


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