Positioning

Brilliant. Between Giles, Adam and Mickey I've just crystllised something that's been giving me slight gip for ages. It's about understanding what your cue is for turning, rather than looking for that elusive turn in point.

I'm pretty sure that the secong of Mickey's artworks is how I ride on a 'good day', you know, when it all comes together. Interestingly, got commented on (unfavourably) by an, eh, well regarded local observer. Didn't have an allocated observer so relied on my previous training from Martin at HoppRider.

Examiner asked where I got my training as he spotted it wasn't 'orthodox' local IAM. Got high praise from him - he pointed out that the standards say use the most appropriate part of the road, not the extremes all the time.
 
Don't like the second one at all, as to "can't see round" well the first right hander you could see all the way through from the point where the picture starts so i would take a much nicer line that requires far less lean and does not leave me raking crud out the gutter all the way round.

First one looks fine, but if I need to follw the second one to pass an IAM exam you can count me out, in fact if I saw someone riding like that I would assume they are pissed.
 
Don't like the second one at all, as to "can't see round" well the first right hander you could see all the way through from the point where the picture starts so i would take a much nicer line that requires far less lean and does not leave me raking crud out the gutter all the way round.

First one looks fine, but if I need to follw the second one to pass an IAM exam you can count me out, in fact if I saw someone riding like that I would assume they are pissed.


Please read again Rasher ... the second diagram is how not to do it :eek:
:beerjug:
 
Please note though that the line in my first drawing is when everything is hunky dory and nothing is intruding. You wouldn't be on the 'ideal' line if that takes you along a slick of diesel, or cow muck :eek:

The line will alter for a parked vehicle, a hidden track or drive. Safety is never compromised!

My sweepy swoopy line in my second drawing when seen on the road looks bloody awful... but yet they still do it, having been taught to be nearside for a right hander or towards the white line for a left hander. That's it ... no thinking for themselves then eh!

Also ... people do it, sweeping and swooping for 'correct' positioning when they have a clear view through the twisties and could straighten them out ;)

Apologies to Giles if I have hijacked the thread. Please bear in mind my drawings were done late on a Sunday night with half a gallon of Marstons down my throat :eek:
:beerjug:
 
I'm observing for the IAM at present and have been asked by an ex police pal who's just recently started observing for ROSPA, to take my rospa training with a view to observing for them. It's over in Wakefield and obviously I will have to get gold in order to do so, but we've done a couple of rides together with this in mind already. The main problem i come accross is the varied opinions within any riding group, which leads to conflict. The standards seem to be very loose and open to very wide interpretation.
It's great to be able to see info like this, despite it being kind of the natural way to do things? I'm amazed at some of the lines i see being taken but also am ready to admit i do make mistakes.
Thanks for the replies
 
Good stuff! Thank you Micky!! Yes, my bad drawing was what you see, (when its blind) not the line you might ride! We've got there in the end though!! :thumb
 
This picture appeared in the original thread, and is not the best, but still an example of Micky's 'one hazard at a time' frustration, and some riders lack of forward thinking / vision.


028-2.jpg


From where I am on the road, I'm thinking the right hand bend just above the white car, and where that bend will take me. If the white car wasn't there, (there are no solid white lines..), I'd be looking to ride from where I am now to that grassy / hay like bank for a view into the far right hander, and I'd chop out the whole of that first right hand bend where the parked up coach is. I certainly wouldn't be fannying around making pretty lines for the parked coach bend and treating it as a seperate hazard :thumb
 
The IAM don't like you using the other side of the road these days, but I say cobblers ... it's a real world out there and we're on motorbikes ;)

If trimming out bends you can see round, thus making 'the line' smoother, sweeter and safer, then let's have a piece of it, even if it does mean us being on the other side of the road and crossing a broken white line :eek:

We've paid our road tax and entitled to be there...

We use the other side of the road for overtakes don't we ;)
:beerjug:
 
Great drawings Mickey:D

These threads are good at showing folk that there is no "one way" but lots of things to make it "a good way" through a bit of thought. I have long thought of road riding as a sort of dot to dot between the points that really matter for visibility and smooth cornering with good visibility inbetween. If all that matters is A or B line then the visibility bit soons comes to crap.

The most mindful position is the one where you can see to get the most info from and also the one where you can send the most info:thumb

You will see the dayglo brigade stuck on the outside of sweeping bends when they can see for miles and stuck "out" from the last when they should be "in" for the next bend...

PS "We've paid our road tax and entitled to be there..." My sentiments also "road tax is for ALL the road":) If you have a tractor emerging from the left you sure as hell think it OK to use some of the right then if you can...
 
The IAM don't like you using the other side of the road these days, but I say cobblers ... it's a real world out there and we're on motorbikes ;)

I was told to check with my examiner at the pre-test briefing he objected to my using the full width of the road. Thankfully Jon Taylor said it was fine. He did comment at the end of the test that he expected me to cross the centre line more after having mentioned it. I just pointed out that the 'conditions' had not been suitable for me to use the full width of the road on this occasion. :augie

The best bit of advice I was given for stringing multiple corners together was to ride the same stretch of road twice. Once treating each corner separately and breaking accordingly. Generally a game of dot-to-dot with the straights. Then string the corners together. Once you have sussed the second approach deliberately trying to do the first approach just seems stupid and takes a load of concentration :blast
 
Contrary to Nigel's findings above, when I took my RospA test the examiner's pre-test briefing included:

"On the open road, RospA expect you to remain inside the dividing lines, other than during an overtake. Where there are no dividing lines down the road, then there is no division........".

I decided to follow the advice given to me by the examiner.... No harm for 45 minutes to follow the simple briefing as to what was being asked of me, I assumed. :D
 
thanks to all the artists and corner kings. this was exactly the sort of picture and discussion I was hoping for in my message in the riding skills thread. My IAM observer was quite explicit about looking ahead and linking bends, straight lining when appropriate. He said just don't cross the lines when cornering in the test and this wasn't difficult advice to follow. I reckon there are lots of really good IAM types who understand and follow Mickys advice so I think we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water ! Thanks again - why isn't this in the books ? :thumb2
 
- why isn't this in the books ? :thumb2


Ummmmm, tricky to write up I suppose. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and all that, there's nothing contraversial about using the offside but even amongst our tiny community we're hearing of different views and opinions. Some examiners / instructors say it's fine, some say no, some are undoubtedly corporate bods and some live in the real world! Imagine trying to write that in print and sell it WH Smith!!
 
There is no Dummies Guide to riding a motorcycle since there's such disparity even amongst the 'experts' so IMO, it could only really be written following this general structure:

1. Title
2. Introduction
a. Hypothesis
b. Predicted Results

3. Materials and Methods
4. Observed Results
5. Discussion

a. Conclusions
b. Implications

6. Literature Cited


From this, make your own decisions from 5a and 5b about how YOU want to ride:thumb:toungincheek
 
There is no Dummies Guide to riding a motorcycle since there's such disparity even amongst the 'experts'

There is? :confused:
There seems to be largely agreement from all "experts" on the vast majority of things.
Sure there's some slight nuances between them, but for the most part people sing off the same song sheet. There's no radical differences that i have seen. :confused:


For instance the biggest difference covered in this thread is whether to offside or not.
Even those that advocate it make a BIG point over only doing so when there is a clear advantage from doing so otherwise it is seen as extremely dangerous. Those that don't advocate it IME do so because if not skilled in the technique the consequences of getting it wrong just aren't worth the chance of giving it a go. So the "difference" isn't really "do it/don't do it", more "worth the possible consequences/not worth the possible consequences"....
 
Two little mottos of mine for training ... well not just for training, but for riding in general :comfort

Is it safe?
Is it to advantage?
If the answer is yes to both those questions then we'll have a bit of it ;)


Never put your motorcycle anywhere your brain wasn't ten seconds earlier ;)
:beerjug:
 


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