Positioning

Brilliant thread, very informative.

Wrigsby1 how the hell do you cope with the road surface down this way, your roads are so brilliant and empty of traffic (though the suicidal sheep aren't so fun)
 
Brilliant thread, very informative.

Wrigsby1 how the hell do you cope with the road surface down this way, your roads are so brilliant and empty of traffic (though the suicidal sheep aren't so fun)

Ah, luckily I have done most of my miles "sooth" and only moved up 6 years ago! I find the roads up here completely undemanding and a bit boring to be honest. The fact that they are relatively unbendy, smooth as hell and you can see for miles is a real drag:D If I had a sportsbike up here I would be in the clink by now! (Scot sherriffs take NO prisoners:D). It's like the TT mountain section on the main roads and easy single track off. Luckily I have a slowboat GS:D

As for the sheep you just get an idea of the stupid (even more...) ones.

My girlies folks live in Totley so a quick nip into Derbyshire or a shortcut to the Midlands gets some decent back roads in. Used to live in Devon so knew many of the fun back roads out there.

As for this no brakes/brakes stuff, I find a simple compromise... If the vanishing point is keeping it's distance then back off throttle and/or gears usually does. If the vanishing point is coming to get you then it's usually tight and use brakes and gears to get your speed down. It must be boring as hell if you won't stand it on the front into tight bends now and again for fun, and the only reason it may not be smooth is if you don't know how to use 'em.

That's the trouble with book learning/mantra systems, it makes you think that some things "aren't done" when if you are any good you use all the tools in the box when necessary. Try coming down Braemar/Glenshee at pace without any brakes and you will be mountain biking before you know it:augie

Oddly, most Shetland car accidents are because someone forgot about the bends:D
 
If I had a sportsbike up here I would be in the clink by now! (Scot sherriffs take NO prisoners:D). It's like the TT mountain section on the main roads and easy single track off. Luckily I have a slowboat GS:D

I can imagine, the A970 just before Girlsta I think it is I went faster than I have been since I was a youngster :) wife broke her previous record too. Is your GS a dark grey as we kept seeing a darkish colour GS in October.

You have been around a bit haven't you Devon to Shetland is a fair old way to move without emigrating !
 
I can imagine, the A970 just before Girlsta I think it is I went faster than I have been since I was a youngster :) wife broke her previous record too. Is your GS a dark grey as we kept seeing a darkish colour GS in October.

You have been around a bit haven't you Devon to Shetland is a fair old way to move without emigrating !

I went fast enough "sooth" but at least there were blind bends/trees to protect you! Up here you are seen and heard for miles so there is no excuses and quite a few bored coppers. Mine is a white 1100 (but with black gaucho:)) but I have seen a couple of 1150/12's lately and there are often biker visitors up for a look.

As for the distance.... as far as you can go without leaving UK. Island life gets a bit of getting used to as you can only go so far for a ride and have probably seen it all before:D

We quite fancy Scotland again, Dumfries and Galloway... some great roads... one out of Girvan to Newton Stewart with some really tight and bendy stuff. Sadly when I did it this summer i was in a 3.5 ton van with the both of us, stuff and dogs on our way to Brittany! Still I could see a great 100 mile round trip Sunday breakfast run in my mind!!

I suppose thats one of the points of this "positioning" thread... It's the roads you don't know that can be the most fun and more relevant to this thread:thumb

PS I hoped you enjoyed your trip to 60N and watch the N-S road if you are up again as thats where the radars come out most often:)
 
I suppose thats one of the points of this "positioning" thread... It's the roads you don't know that can be the most fun and more relevant to this thread:thumb

PS I hoped you enjoyed your trip to 60N and watch the N-S road if you are up again as thats where the radars come out most often:)

Love Shetland so always enjoy :)

The roads you do know can be the most dangerous (getting back on subject ;) ) being mindful not to take the road for granted.

I had a recent one, a route I use a lot, tightish left hander with banking/hedge on left meaning poor visibility. Luckily my positioning was out towards centre (about two feet from centre of road) but not as wide or as fast as some people I know take it. Coming other way was tractor with a plough on, plough bit was a good foot on my side of road so took a good bit of counter steer to get me out of harms way.

I try to learn from threads like this, taking what is good for me, and ignore the bits that don't suit my type of riding. I have a mate I don't ride with now as I don't like how he likes to hug the centre line for left handers with what appears little regard for road conditions, or other vehicles.
 
Love Shetland so always enjoy :)

The roads you do know can be the most dangerous (getting back on subject ;) ) being mindful not to take the road for granted.

I had a recent one, a route I use a lot, tightish left hander with banking/hedge on left meaning poor visibility. Luckily my positioning was out towards centre (about two feet from centre of road) but not as wide or as fast as some people I know take it. Coming other way was tractor with a plough on, plough bit was a good foot on my side of road so took a good bit of counter steer to get me out of harms way.

I try to learn from threads like this, taking what is good for me, and ignore the bits that don't suit my type of riding. I have a mate I don't ride with now as I don't like how he likes to hug the centre line for left handers with what appears little regard for road conditions, or other vehicles.

Good stuff... Always learning and all that. I also developed a respect for tractors riding in the SW!... There are plenty of riders who ride the same road, in the sun, on a Sunday etc etc and then wonder why it's changed on Monday in the rain. I have "raced" a few roads in the past due to too much familiarity (youth eh!) and you will increase your chances of a big one if you push your luck.

Also instructors of all ilks fall for this trick also and can tell you all the nuances of their favourite runs but might not be so hot on the "unkens". There are also roads in the country that are the Police or the Army's favourite training grounds and you always have in the back of your mind that extra "hazard":augie

I had a good ride this morn in a 60 mile round trip to the dentist. It was a road in Shetland locally known as "the Alps" (Aith to Voe) and is a bendy, undulating, valley to moorland, low to high road sometimes littered with errant sheep. It was also horizontal raining and about 25-30mph wind SE. It was good fun and a good "peerie" challenge! The locals would call the gales of the last 2-3 days "a peerie purr o wind":D Sadly due to the moorland/treeless landscape, you have to stop riding force 7-8 or above!

Also in the brakes/no brakes debate what about the gentle back brake occasionally to tighten a line on a bend. I think I leant that in a 1980's Roadcraft. Also the back brake in slow traffic for balance which came in so handy as a courier diving in and out of the mirrors:D

PS If you are in Shetland then drop me a line and we can have a run:)
 
PS If you are in Shetland then drop me a line and we can have a run:)

That road looks good from map, we are going to Orkney next year but hope to do Shetland for the Simmer Dim Rally in 2012 so will defo drop you a note when we do come up. Dito if you are down this way drop me a pm.

Shetland cured my wife's fears of riding in wind (it was a case of kill or cure) ;)

Sorry to everyone for the semi hijack
 
Also in the brakes/no brakes debate what about the gentle back brake occasionally to tighten a line on a bend. I think I leant that in a 1980's Roadcraft. Also the back brake in slow traffic for balance which came in so handy as a courier diving in and out of the mirrors.Quote:

2 up with luggage.. Hustling along.. That back brake keeps your GS or any bike, nicely balanced and on line..
Learnt that in the 70s:rob.. Useful tool to stop er indoors beating ya about the elmet....:augie

The most interesting articles I have read since joining the forum. Good work please keep it going..
 
Used a lot of back brake on sportsbike when two-up, especially at low speed to avoid the fork dive causing pillion to headbut / bodyslam you.

With the GS I really notice the lack of dive at town speeds so can slink back to my lazy old habbits and leave the rear brake alone - well almost, I understand they are linked so a certain amount of rear is in use whenever you touch the front.

Only problem with any braking mid-corner 9or even rolling off) is ground clearance is reduced, not sure how this works with shaft drives and funny front ends, although if you ride at 30mph and look at the "forks" then shut the throttle you will see it sinks considerably, certainly a great way to "break the Camels back" on a conventional bike too.

Also not sure how much clearance the GS has, I am assuming due to height there is stacks :nenau
 
Also not sure how much clearance the GS has, I am assuming due to height there is stacks :nenau

Yes there's enough. It's usually the centre stand that touches down first on right handers and the side stand can go down on left handers; although I recently managed to grind a sizeable chunk off the left footpeg for the first time ever without touching anything else down.

The other thing about the Telelever is that it makes it very easy to carry some front brake right up to the apex should you happen to overcook it on the way in.
 
Been a while since I decked anything on the road, my Thundercat could be decked easily enough two-up, but never managed it one up except on track.

When I was a lad it was the norm, even on crap tyres of the day, things have moved on, even with much grippier tyres I have not had any issues on road bikes for the last 15 years or so, last bike I decked a lot was a ZZR1100 back in about 1996. Think I may have been braver (Immortal possibly) back then.

As this thread is about positioning, I would imagine you would have to be pretty off-line, or at a misjudged entry speed to really need to grind a GS on the road.

It takes me about 3,000 miles to get the hang of most bikes (slow learner) and with going from sporty stuff on road tyres and conventional suspension to the GS with its odd position, weird suspension and funny tyres I can't see clearance being an issue for me in the near future, nice to know they will lean that far if need be though.
 
As this thread is about positioning, I would imagine you would have to be pretty off-line, or at a misjudged entry speed to really need to grind a GS on the road.

No, just railing round a 180 deg uphill left hand hairpin in the Californian Sierra Nevada Mountains chasing my, similarly GS mounted, hooligan son and with a K1200R mounted friend, who knew the pass, up my chuff.....:D

The bike will do it perfectly well and the Tourance EXP on the front felt up to the job as well but for much of that trip, I could feel myself riding off the edge of the rear Tourance which wasn't an entirely comfortable sensation.
 
Some great stuff in this thread.

Thats the thing about telelever, it allows some "overlap" of the phases and is very good at seperating braking and suspension. A couple of things ot watch are the transition from telelever to forked bike if you have or get both and the fact that when you really push it, the ground clearance will still be reduced.

I managed to accidentally get the engine bar (BM std) down on a track day at Cadwell at the tight right after the "Mountain", and it was not too good!:D I think that was because I was riding hard with an 1150GS at the time and was just a bit agressive on the turn from hard braking so ran out of clearance.

Also if you are decking stuff you are either weight loaded and leaning pretty hard, hitting bumps mid corner or the bike is sinking in the bend due to speed related loading and leaning. I have dragged a few bits of bike over the years and it has usually been due to the "edge" being near:D

Talking earlier of gale force winds and the comments of RCE sort of reminded me of an extra factor in places like Shetland or other exposed places. I used to teach the things to watch in windy conditions such as "gaps" in the hedges, gates, trucks, street ends, sudden gusts etc but up here you have lots of strong windy weather and still days are in the minority. There is really nothing in the way so you have to ride accordingly. There are areas where the wind is reflected about and wide open bits where the road position is "inside" first to be blown out.

RCE may have had a classic "lean over to go straight" day when he was up and stong continuous sidewinds are common. At least living in the SW was a good training ground! Obviously this will apply to all exposed areas its just that up here we major in windy weather!>>>>>>>>:thumb
 
Some great stuff in this thread.

I managed to accidentally get the engine bar (BM std) down on a track day at Cadwell at the tight right after the "Mountain", and it was not too good!:D

Speaking of the Mountain at Cadwell

Here's one I prepared earlier :eek:
:beerjug:
 

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Speaking of the Mountain at Cadwell

Here's one I prepared earlier :eek:
:beerjug:

Ha ha... That's like the bike I was trying to stay in front of:D

I wanted it to be all like the Mountain as it was such a crack:D
 
Also if you are decking stuff you are either weight loaded and leaning pretty hard, hitting bumps mid corner or the bike is sinking in the bend due to speed related loading and leaning. I have dragged a few bits of bike over the years and it has usually been due to the "edge" being near:D

I assume as with "conventional" bikes closing the throttle at this point would be a very bad idea :blast
 
You're doing it again - the jumps on the A93 are some of the best bits....:D

Ha, ha, ha...:D Just seen this:D No, I was talking about those great right handers after a steep downhill bit with loads of bumps on the entry. GS country for sure:D A bit like riding in the Lakes without the tourists:augie

I the mid 90's i went to a school reunion in the NW and we ended seeing a mate who was living in the Lakes. They all had bikes as teenies and I had to wait a couple of years... The Lakeland chap wanted to phyc me to see what I could do so he took me for a little round trip to Devils Bridge and back via some back roads he knew. I played the watch him and his line/brake light etc at a reasonable distance. He went over a crest and i followed at the same speed.... suddenly flying at about 70:D All part of the test:rolleyes:

S'funny cos I thought a couple of times "why hard to a wall on a left hander" and suddenly it was sharp blind right dip. Sort of shows why you always leave a good percentage on roads you don't know:D

As for the decking bits thing, It usually means you are pretty hard over but a good ride, on a good road, on a good day it becomes far easier. In the Picos lets say, the roads had the best bends and a semi Shellgrip type surface which made it really grippy even when cold. Also people usually have the most contact on slower and sharper bends. On fast stuff you are usually reaching the edge as it means you are loaded up for far longer and are speed loaded rather than "helped" by direction changes etc.

Also worth remembering there are no "hero blobs" on many BM's. Some can run out of ground clearance surprisingly quickly due to design. Flat four K12's are big heavy and not made for tight scratching so RS/GT's (60-40% front!) etc can deck big bits quite early. GS's etc have lots of suspension travel so are more prone when riding agressively...

Two bits i have learnt from scraping bits.... hanging off spurts bikes in order to increase the clearance for the same speed and riding smoothly whatever the bike:D:thumb
 
Flat four K12's are big heavy and not made for tight scratching so RS/GT's (60-40% front!) etc can deck big bits quite early. GS's etc have lots of suspension travel so are more prone when riding agressively...

Two bits i have learnt from scraping bits.... hanging off spurts bikes in order to increase the clearance for the same speed and riding smoothly whatever the bike:D:thumb

What are you're on? Is it available on prescription? I'd like some please ;)

BMW don't make a flat four ... VW and Porsche did :blast

'Hanging off spurts bikes ..." FFS ?????????
:beerjug:
 
BMW don't make a flat four ... VW and Porsche did :blast

"Bricks" were sometimes referred to as "flat fours"; albeit they're in-line flat fours rather than the Goldwing, VW, Porsche, Subaru, Rotax, Citroën GS, Alfasud.....(any others?) boxer flat four. :)
 


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