Explorer is selling well!!

I moved from a BMW F800GS to a Triumph Tiger 800 XCx and after a year no problems at all and it does look to be put together pretty well. Why did I change. Poor quality of the BMW and it not being reliable.

Derek

Bryn said:

Over on the Tiger Explorer forum there's similar threads discussing the reasons for choosing an Explorer over other bikes, including the GS.

Predictably there are more folk who are simply moving from another Triumph, but there are quite a few who have traded in their GS, or just kept it, and bought an Explorer.

The majority of them still rate the GS as an excellent ride, but just fancied a change... I'm in that camp .

It's extremely unlikely I'll take a 12k bike offroad, so the styling and oomph does it for me. I don't need to have gone from here to China offroad to have had an adventure.

The last time I took a GS off road it was warm and dry, and my 09 SE ended up nearly upside down in a hedge ... took some getting out as I was on my lonesome

Will stick to roads from now on

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Please will you let us know how the new Explorer's performance compaires to the GS? I had an Explorer in 2012 which I found a little agricultral. When the LC came out and I rode one its performance knocked spots off the Explorer even thogh on paper the Explorer was more mowerful.

Thanks

restandplay said:

I moved from a BMW F800GS to a Triumph Tiger 800 XCx and after a year no problems at all and it does look to be put together pretty well. Why did I change. Poor quality of the BMW and it not being reliable.

Derek

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In 800 form (Xcx at least) the Triumph is a superior product to the F800GS, but i don't know about the new F850GS compared to the new Tiger 800 (genuinely).

In 1200 form?.... I'm no expert but journalists are and in every single test, the GS always has the edge. It is what it is.

The latest one knocks spots off the GS.
Seamless, smooth and so much more power - makes the GS feel like the ride on mower.

ReGenesis said:

The latest one knocks spots off the GS.
Seamless, smooth and so much more power - makes the GS feel like the ride on mower.

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The engine, gearbox, quick shifter and tft are better than the GS, but IMO (and the wife’s) the GS is still a better all round bike

Being 5ft 8 the top heavy weight is too much for me and the fuel economy seems poor



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ReGenesis said:

The latest one knocks spots off the GS.
Seamless, smooth and so much more power - makes the GS feel like the ride on mower.

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Personal opinions aside, the journalists don't appear to agree with you. I accept that there may be an element of bias, but ALL of them? Every test? Smoothness alone (which I happen to agree with) is not enough to be an overall better bike.

" So much more power " Hmmm, I have to disagree with you even having not tried the Tiger because the maths just doesn't add up and maths doesn't lie. You can express power to weight ratio in any which way you choose :hp/ton, kgs/hp, hp/kgs but generally the first is the most used. Whichever way you choose, it comes up with the same answer: negligible difference. The Tiger weighs an astounding 276kgs and has 141hp whereas the GS weighs 246Kgs and has 125hp. The answer comes out at a staggering 2hp/ton difference between the two. Hardly "loads" more power. If you must know, the Tiger has 510hp per ton and the GS 508hp/ton.

And Triumph still can't get away from that top-heaviness which will always be what lets the tall tripples down, and the Tigers are all tall.

It's about the whole package and the Tiger, does not trump a GS as a package, from the weight through the aftersales service in which Triumph most certainly does not match the BMW; the warranty on ALL BMW's (cars and bikes) is second to none. You may like, or even prefer, one aspect more on one than the other but that doesn't make it a better bike except for you personally.

Look at the MCIA registration statistics for Jan-April 2018 and see which bikes are selling well - simples

Don't get me wrong, I love Triumphs and I'm quite sure I'd have loved the Tiger had I elected to buy it. Had Triumph been more forthcoming, more interested in the sale and had I not had the experiences I had with Triumph servicing, I might have decanted towards the big tripple. The novelty factor of the new Tiger is surely going some way to influencing those sales figures and, let's face it, it isn't a bad bike by any stretch of the imagination, it's brilliant. But time will tell whether, after 3 years, and people come to the end of their PCP deal, whether they repeat or go for the new VVT BMW. Time will also tell if they are as pleased with all those things that really distinguish a good experience of ownership, form an ok or bad one.

I'm not here to put Triumph down because I actually have a fondness for the marque but when people make statements like "it's got loads more power", even were it true, it's not what distinguishes a bike. Had they said: It feels like it has much more power because of the way it is delivered. I could have understood that and, having not actually had the pleasure of a ride, would have been hard pushed to refute that claim.

Whatever, if you have bought a Tiger 1200, a commendable choice, and I'm sure it will give miles of pleasure and very little grief.

I've voiced the exact reasons elsewhere on several occasions.
Ridden both, over the same roads, on the same day, back to back and on a number of extended test rides before I hit the "buy" button.
So when I say "it has loads more power" - it does. In the real world.
It puts the power down far smoother, more refined and it fucks off down said road some margin ahead of the GS.
Yes - its top heavy - not denying that and at the same height as a poster above its a valid reason. BUT if I dropped the GS, I'm not picking it up without help either hence it having bars fitted!
The actual wet weights aren't that dissimilar as well.
Small things like the lack of satnav integration with the ecu could be argued but its a gimmick mostly and most of the time the info shown/collected is never used. In fact, most of the time on the GS it views the 4x speed/range/temp/xxxx as the actual clocks are shite. The NavV is ok, the 6 less so and both far more expensive than the Garmin units they are based on with far less features because of BMW's restraints on Garmin.
Is the GS easier to change the suspension and riding mode? Yes.
Is the suspension on the GS better? No - the Triumph is much better in this one. Perhaps there's almost too much adjustment, but then theres a lot of variation in rider "pie familiarity" shall we say.....
Clocks? We all know the answer to that one.
Other kit - heated seats? Triumph - fitted. BMW? Look aftermarket for more £ than OE Triumph is.
Luggage? Very similar. Triumph - alloy only. BMW? Alloy or vario. TBH - I wouldn't have vario again. Heavy, awkward to store and not that much room internally.

We are talking real world here. Actual owners/riders experiences, not journo's. (although one of the extended rides included spending the day swapping between the two bikes we're talking about with John Hogan)
The only reason I bought the GS was warranty/dealer coverage - nothing else.
Regularly being on the continent, Triumph just do not have the dealership coverage to cover a breakdown where BMW do.
Is that due to them being European and far more widespread on the back of the cars? Probably. Doesn't make them any better, just far easier and faster should something hit the fan.
Even in the UK, they fall someway behind BMW.
Add to that the dealer principal at Destination Triumph is an utter bell end it turned my hand to signing a little further up the A32.
My money, not PCP/lease/HP or any other credit - actual £'s going out of the bank account in one fat lump.
So I played safe and so far have never had an issue. Well other than the recall, corrosion, melted indicator and pannier, warped disk.......

That's better. Can't argue with that.

I personally also think that the integration is a gimmick and I bought my NAV VI and sold it 3 weeks later preferring my TT 400 (just don't get on with Garmin, much less Basecamp) but I have the TFT on mine, not the clocks which I have to agree, are not as good as even the original Explorer's; hard to read and cluttered and yet I think that they may yet be thought of as more "classical" in years to come. At least they'll still be functioning as they should when the bikes become collector's items. The only thing I liked more about the NAV set up was that it looked slicker than the TT on the bar.

I must confess that I was very pleased with the WP suspension on my Tiger but I don't really have many complaints about the Sachs set up on my GS. Low speed ride could be improved, I suppose, but as I haven't had my bike long, I still leave it in AUTO. I'm riding my bike to Asturias on Tuesday and taking a week to do it so I'll have plenty of opportunity to play with the settings.

I couldn't pick up my 800 all 3 times I dropped it so I doubt I would ever have been able to pick up the 1200. I haven't dropped the GS yet, but as I said, the drop angle is greater so I've been lucky. I'm fully aware that it's not a case of "if" but "when". I do know, though, that when I dropped my Tiger, all sorts of things went "crack" and "ping" on it and it was left with bits hanging loosely off it. My cousin, who has had his GS for many years has dropped it several times and nothing has cracked or pinged off his. He does say that compared to other bikes he's seen dropped, his doesn't seem to feel the pain as much.

Aesthetically? (there really is no accounting for taste), well, there's a subject. A strange dicotomy here because whilst the Tiger might be "a better looking" bike; sleek, poised, agressive. Actually it looks like every other bike to the uninitiated. Even people who don't ride "adventure style" bikes or aren't into them would be hard pushed to tell a Crosstourer from a Tracer, from a Multistrada (in any other colour than red), from a S100XR, from a Tiger. I flew the 747 for eleven and a half years and everyone who ever asked me what I flew knew exactly what aircraft I was referring to. I now fly a 777; it's better in many ways than the Jumbo; it's sleeker, it's more efficient but it looks just like an A330, a 767, a 757 or any other twin engined aircraft for that matter, Malaysian notoriety notwithstanding people go: "Uhuh, is that a big plane?" The GS is iconic. You can't mistake those two flower pots sticking out of the side of the bike and even those who don't ride, on hearing about the cylinders, know what kind of bike it is. So whilst it's THE most common adventure style bike on EU roads, it's also the one that has the most individual styling.

You can tell that I'm jet lagged and the body clock is all over the place because of the time I'm writing all this guff.

Nice conversing.

Ride safe.

Not being able to fit the sat-nav above the clocks is a negative IMO as it’s the easiest place to read it especially with a tank bag fitted. The wheel for operating it is a good idea as well.

I would say the Tiger has better suspension giving a nicer ride although the extra weight might help with this?

I don’t think the Triumph is much/any quicker than the GS in real world riding although it sounds like it is. But ridden hard the Tiger isn’t as economical.

From my research the service costs are higher on the Tiger as well?

The lack of a heated seat from BMW is a poor show and needs to be addressed on the upcoming new model.


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Morning folks,
I own and ride a 2017 Gen 2 Explorer, I also own and ride a 2016 Guzzi Stelvio. I've also in the past owned a 2014 GS WC.


Now put 3 journalists on these 3 bikes, send them off for a couple of days to thrash the socks off them, and we all know what the result in order of greatness is going to be.


BMW GS

Triumph Explorer


Guzzi Stelvio.


It's a given that's what it's going to be, not because any bike is better than the other but that's what the journalists are expected to say.


But, riding a motorcycle is about how it makes you 'feel' when you're riding it. It's got bugger all to do with what any statistics or Journalists have to say.


Riding the Explorer excites me, riding the Guzzi put one big smile on my face, Riding the GS leaves me feeling underwhelmed.

There is no such thing as a ‘perfect motorcycle’ - it all depends on your requirements - the GS is the bike that comes closer to meeting all of my requirement than any of the others by a very long way.

I need a bike that is good at every type of travel and the GS does all of that to a very high level, for me it is the best all rounder by far - the sales figures appear to bear this out too, any trip around Europe and it is abundantly clear just how many others have come to the same conclusion about this bike.

Engineer said:

- the sales figures appear to bear this out too, any trip around Europe and it is abundantly clear just how many others have come to the same conclusion about this bike.

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It's called 'Lemming syndrome' It's the same reason some folks walk around with rips all over their jeans. It's human nature, so many are compelled to follow a trend.

I'm still wearing my boating jacket and spats.

Sent from a U11

Engineer said:

There is no such thing as a ‘perfect motorcycle’ - it all depends on your requirements - the GS is the bike that comes closer to meeting all of my requirement than any of the others by a very long way.

I need a bike that is good at every type of travel and the GS does all of that to a very high level, for me it is the best all rounder by far - the sales figures appear to bear this out too, any trip around Europe and it is abundantly clear just how many others have come to the same conclusion about this bike.

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True, but there is such a thing as the perfect bike for you and I guess that for some that is the Tiger 1200, I suppose.

wrinkleyowlie said:

It's called 'Lemming syndrome' It's the same reason some folks walk around with rips all over their jeans. It's human nature, so many are compelled to follow a trend.

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: Your comment should get a few going in here

I must admit I’ve just bought an explorer after numerous gs. I always loved the gs and wouldn’t rule one out in the future but I think the newer ones have just lost some of their character and feel like every other bike. Really enjoying the tiger. Superb bike.

wrinkleyowlie said:

It's called 'Lemming syndrome' It's the same reason some folks walk around with rips all over their jeans. It's human nature, so many are compelled to follow a trend.

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I don’t think so, it’s been a best seller for 12 years - adventure bikes have been the fashion for some years but none of the other manufacturers have been able to top the GS sales as yet.

Engineer said:

I don’t think so, it’s been a best seller for 12 years - adventure bikes have been the fashion for some years but none of the other manufacturers have been able to top the GS sales as yet.

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Yes but who really gives a flying fuck what’s the best selling adventure bike ?
You seem to have to justify to all and sundry on a daily basis that the GS is the best bike.
Just enjoy the bloody thing .You paid for it with your money. Others chose differently. It’s just a fucking bike,not a two-wheeled epiphany!