BMW Returns

Isn't there the added complication of selling something privately with finance still owing on it, it may put prospective purchasers off.
 
Isn't there the added complication of selling something privately with finance still owing on it, it may put prospective purchasers off.

Not usually, you (as the buyer) just pay the Finance Company (on their valid settlement letter) what they are owed and the private seller the balance of the agreed sale price

However from the figs indicated by JayC, there will likely be a shortfall and the amount owed may exceed the sale price and the seller may not be able to discharge this to BMW Financial Services
 
Isn't there the added complication of selling something privately with finance still owing on it, it may put prospective purchasers off.

If a figure is agreed between myself and a prospective buyer then provided I can meet the balance there won't be any outstanding finance, hence the earlier mention of the settlement figure.
This figure needs to be met. In other words if somebody agreed to pay , let's say (fas) £8,500 for it, I would then have to put up the £452.12 to clear the outstanding finance.
This then translates to somebody getting a bloody good deal whilst I have to cough up far less than the shortfall figure I have been quoted to clear my debt to BMW FS.
 
Not usually, you (as the buyer) just pay the Finance Company (on their valid settlement letter) what they are owed and the private seller the balance of the agreed sale price

However from the figs indicated by JayC, there will likely be a shortfall and the amount owed may exceed the sale price and the seller may not be able to discharge this to BMW Financial Services

Spot on JB!

Thanks all for your input on this matter, it is appreciated.
 
Just one word of warning if it does end up going back clean it to within a inch of its life and take loads of pictures from every angle showing every bit of the bike as sometimes they find "extra damage" they will try to charge you for and you will need all the pictures to prove them wrong. Hopefully it wont come to this and you will sell for what you need good luck with it either way.
 
Just one word of warning if it does end up going back clean it to within a inch of its life and take loads of pictures from every angle showing every bit of the bike as sometimes they find "extra damage" they will try to charge you for and you will need all the pictures to prove them wrong. Hopefully it wont come to this and you will sell for what you need good luck with it either way.

Cheers Steve! :thumby:

Taking a load of pictures may just have escaped me the way my mind is at the moment. :bow
 
Spot on JB!

Thanks all for your input on this matter, it is appreciated.

PM me, if you want any specific advice or a to have a chat (see my sig line:D )

All good advice already said and SteveK points out some very pertinent comments, specific to 'return conditions' if it's going to BMW FS and not a dealer, who may be more realistic
 
PM me, if you want any specific advice or a to have a chat (see my sig line:D )

All good advice already said and SteveK points out some very pertinent comments, specific to 'return conditions' if it's going to BMW FS and not a dealer, who may be more realistic

Ok, I've turned sigs on....now turned them off again. :D

I may get in touch in due course. :beerjug:
 
£6600 is a piss take in my opinion.

Not so.

In essence, BMW Finance advanced a significant loan (virtually unsecured as the vehicle itself was the primary - and only - asset) to someone who might not be able (or willing) to meet the repayment terms and / or could not otherwise have bought the vehicle in the first place from cash or via another form of finance.

Sad to say, that inability day has now arrived. The how's and wherefore's of the day's arrival are not important, nor do they have any baring on the affair.

BMW Finance is a business, not a charity. More importantly, it is definitely not your lifelong friend down the pub to whom you can turn to for funds or to wait to repay. In fact that is not entirely true.... They are your lifelong friend when they lend you the money your other lifelong friend wouldn't or couldn't. Unfortunately, their friendship comes at a price.

Not least BMW Finance needs to cover its inevitable costs of deals ( call them 'friendship') that really do go sour. The example of the all but worthless caravan in this thread is a good one. Of course in that example, the former caravan owner will be crowing how astute he has been, with the finance company taking a bath. There will also be others who, through 'clever' (at least to them) chicanery will manage to sell the vehicle to some mug, pocket the change and flit... Or declare bankruptcy.... The list goes on and on.... All of which somebody else (in this case the OP) has to contribute to in part. Tough, but that is how it (and often life) works.

If in doubt, ask yourself what YOU would charge the OP to finance his vehicle. I suspect that you would either not do it all or demand irrevocable liquid guarantees equal to (or probably in excess of, if you had any sense) the value of the loan, whilst still remaining the primary charge (ownership) over the vehicle until the debt to you had been fully discharged. BMW Finance were not that draconian as to demand liquid guarantees but their generosity (for want of a better word) came at a price. The OP now knows what that price is. However, the finance house is still patient and willing to help. If the OP does not accept the severance terms (it is he that is cancelling the contract early, not BMW Finance, let's not forget) they will wait a while whilst he tries to secure a better sale price or method of disposal; the subject of this thread. How successful the OP is will depend on a number of factors, including: His expectations (fueled or damped by responses on UKGSer), the market (November is not a great time to sell a motorcycle) or the hardnosednes ( or stupidity) of any potential buyer, the timeframe he has available to haggle, other more pressing factors in his life...... The list goes on.

Of course, if YOU have ready cash you could yourself make the OP an offer and secure yourself a bargain, whilst helping a fellow biker out of a hole. You could then beat (or at least equal) the finance house at their own game, sharing in the 'piss take'. The OP will still be out of pocket, but less so and hopefully happier. BMW a Finance will be happy and you'll have a bargain.... What are YOU waiting for... There's a bargain staring you in the face and a fellow biker in need.
 
Not so.

In essence, BMW Finance advanced a significant loan (virtually unsecured as the vehicle itself was the primary asset) to someone who might not be able (or willing) to meet the repayment terms and / or could not otherwise have bought the vehicle in the first place from cash or via another form of finance.

Sad to say, that inability day has now arrived. The how's and wherefore's of the day's arrival are not important, nor do they have any baring on the affair.

BMW Finance is a business, not your lifelong friend down the pub to whom you can turn to for funds or to wait to repay. In fact that is not entirely true.... They are your lifelong friend when they lend you the money your other lifelong friend wouldn't or couldn't. Unfortunately, their friendship comes at a price.

Not least BMW Finance needs to cover its inevitable costs of deals ( call them 'friendship') that really do go sour. The example of the all but worthless caravan in this thread is a good one. Of course in that example, the former caravan owner will be crowing how astute he has been, with the finance company taking a bath. There will also be others who, through 'clever' (at least to them) chicanery will manage to sell the vehicle to some mug, pocket the change and flit... Or declare bankruptcy.... The list goes on and on.... All of which somebody else (in this case the OP) has to contribute to in part. Tough, but that is how it (and often life) works.

If in doubt, ask yourself what you would charge the OP to finance his vehicle. I suspect that you would either not do it all or demand irrevocable liquid guarantees equal to (or probably in excess of, if you had any sense) the value of the loan, whilst still remaining the primary charge (ownership) over the vehicle until the debt to you had been fully discharged. BMW Finance were not that draconian as to demand liquid guarantees but their generosity (for want of a better word) came at a price. The OP now knows what that price is. However, the finance house is still patient and willing to help. If the OP does not accept the severance terms (it is he that is cancelling the contract early, not BMW Finance, let's not forget) they will wait a while whilst he tries to secure a better sale price or method of disposal; the subject of this thread. How successful the OP is will depend on a number of factors, including: His expectations (fueled or damped by responses on UKGSer), the market (November is not a great time to sell a motorcycle) or the hardnosednes ( or stupidity) of any potential buyer, the timeframe he has available to haggle, other more pressing factors..... The list goes on.

Of course, if you have ready cash you could yourself make the OP an offer and secure yourself a bargain, whilst helping a fellow biker out of a hole. You could then beat (or at least equal) the finance house at their own game. The OP will still be out of pocket, but less so and hopefully happier. BMW a Finance will be happy and you'll have a bargain.... What are you waiting for??

Sage advice :thumb2

Finance enables us to have the things we want today, whilst not waiting for tomorrow when we can save up for it

Finance Companies will charge for this service, by way of fees and interest

Severance of the terms of the finance agreement, whilst sometimes aren't pretty they are legal and the small print should be read and understood before agreeing to them

JayC understands his obligations well from his postings and hopes to work out a mutually beneficial solution to himself and BMW Finance
 
Not so.

In essence, BMW Finance advanced a significant loan (virtually unsecured as the vehicle itself was the primary - and only - asset) to someone who might not be able (or willing) to meet the repayment terms and / or could not otherwise have bought the vehicle in the first place from cash or via another form of finance.

Sad to say, that inability day has now arrived. The how's and wherefore's of the day's arrival are not important, nor do they have any baring on the affair.

BMW Finance is a business, not a charity. More importantly, it is definitely not your lifelong friend down the pub to whom you can turn to for funds or to wait to repay. In fact that is not entirely true.... They are your lifelong friend when they lend you the money your other lifelong friend wouldn't or couldn't. Unfortunately, their friendship comes at a price.

Not least BMW Finance needs to cover its inevitable costs of deals ( call them 'friendship') that really do go sour. The example of the all but worthless caravan in this thread is a good one. Of course in that example, the former caravan owner will be crowing how astute he has been, with the finance company taking a bath. There will also be others who, through 'clever' (at least to them) chicanery will manage to sell the vehicle to some mug, pocket the change and flit... Or declare bankruptcy.... The list goes on and on.... All of which somebody else (in this case the OP) has to contribute to in part. Tough, but that is how it (and often life) works.

If in doubt, ask yourself what YOU would charge the OP to finance his vehicle. I suspect that you would either not do it all or demand irrevocable liquid guarantees equal to (or probably in excess of, if you had any sense) the value of the loan, whilst still remaining the primary charge (ownership) over the vehicle until the debt to you had been fully discharged. BMW Finance were not that draconian as to demand liquid guarantees but their generosity (for want of a better word) came at a price. The OP now knows what that price is. However, the finance house is still patient and willing to help. If the OP does not accept the severance terms (it is he that is cancelling the contract early, not BMW Finance, let's not forget) they will wait a while whilst he tries to secure a better sale price or method of disposal; the subject of this thread. How successful the OP is will depend on a number of factors, including: His expectations (fueled or damped by responses on UKGSer), the market (November is not a great time to sell a motorcycle) or the hardnosednes ( or stupidity) of any potential buyer, the timeframe he has available to haggle, other more pressing factors in his life...... The list goes on.

Of course, if YOU have ready cash you could yourself make the OP an offer and secure yourself a bargain, whilst helping a fellow biker out of a hole. You could then beat (or at least equal) the finance house at their own game, sharing in the 'piss take'. The OP will still be out of pocket, but less so and hopefully happier. BMW a Finance will be happy and you'll have a bargain.... What are YOU waiting for... There's a bargain staring you in the face and a fellow biker in need.

i dont have the cash and i dont need a bike, plenty of folk do mind who would be happy to snap this up.

theres no escaping that the valuation is very poor, its not a reflection of the value of the asset (unless you have glasses guide to hand), and lets be honest bmw have plenty of their profit as a business in the £9000 settlement already (finance charges etc), seems they want more rich pickings with a below trade valuation.

We are not talking about a clapped out caravan, the valuation should be fair (and not generous) based on a bike in condition reflective of 6k miles.

i maintain a very poor valuation of the bike by the finance company and one that can easily be bettered. So yes, they provide a service and are there to make a profit but the valuation , whilst not unexpected ;)is a 'piss take':rob

Cheers for the lecture though:thumb2
 
Good luck with your future finances, obviously securing your home is paramount. Come back to the fold when things improve(which they will in the end, remain positive and work towards it). :thumb
 
i dont have the cash and i dont need a bike, plenty of folk do mind who would be happy to snap this up.

theres no escaping that the valuation is very poor, its not a reflection of the value of the asset (unless you have glasses guide to hand), and lets be honest bmw have plenty of their profit as a business in the £9000 settlement already (finance charges etc), seems they want more rich pickings with a below trade valuation.

We are not talking about a clapped out caravan, the valuation should be fair (and not generous) based on a bike in condition reflective of 6k miles.

i maintain a very poor valuation of the bike by the finance company and one that can easily be bettered. So yes, they provide a service and are there to make a profit but the valuation , whilst not unexpected ;)is a 'piss take':rob

Cheers for the lecture though:thumb2

SiRich

You're missing the point

The £6600 isn't a valuation of a 2012 bike in nov 2013

It's the GFMV that was entered into in the BMW Select agreement that Jay & many other bods here entered into

£6600 is the contracted figure & nothing to do with the bike's value NOW

It is the minimum contracted value at the end of the agreement - not now

However at any time the agreement is terminated early it is the only one BMW is interested in + all the balance of future payments due until the end of the deal

BMW select may look cheap, but it is very costly to hand the bike back early, as is any contract hire deal

Sure the OP is free to sell the bike to anybody he chooses for more than £6600 - BUT he has to clear £9k before BMW will discharge their interest in the registration number

Read the small print before signing up to BMW Select, especially if you terminate early and you're not trading up to another bike

If Jay was trading up, the dealer would probably give him £9k as a trade on for a new bike & lose a bit of margin from the new bike to cover the extra they have paid for it or ask the the client for a larger cash to deposit to offset it & deposit on the new BMW Select to make the figures fit

Finance isn't always as easy as it's made out & contract hire isn't the best product for consumers although it's dressed up to look cheap by the automotive manufacturers
 
SiRich, JB is spot on with his summation. It is the OP that is breaching the contract, not BMW Finance. As with many contracts, including one of marriage when it comes to divorce, it often comes with a significant financial penalty.

BMW's finance scheme is 'cheap' at the point of sale (a few hundred pounds down, coupled to modest monthly payments over a reasonably long term) allowing customers to own a motorcycle they might otherwise not be able to afford outright. It also fills a gap (at an increased cost) in finance potential for those who, for whatever reasons, cannot go to their bank or friends for finance. 100's maybe thousands of customers use it every year, so it obviously works; BMW sells vehicles and customers ride motorcycles that they might not otherwise be able to afford.

The finance company's terms are generous on day one, no question. Why? Because it is designed to sell motorcycles, not surprisingly. The loan's terms are then designed to ramp-up to repay the finance company their unsecured loan, plus their profit plus their 'risk gap' ( the chances of default, fraud, bankruptcy, death of the owner etc) over the full period of the loan. If the contract is then terminated short by the customer, not by BMW, it is obvious that the finance house will still want to balance its own books just as much as it would have wanted to do at the end of the term. That is simple business sense.

As JB points out, the £6600 figure is the amount BMW Finance would have offered at the end of the loan's term; that the OP decided to bring the end of the term forward does not alter BMW's figure one jot. Why should it? BMW have lost the remaining months / years of the OP's repayments, something they anticipated might happen (and have been proved right in this instance) and set their opening terms accordingly.

Had the OP let the term run in full he'd no doubt of been very happy, as would BMW Finance as they had facilitated the sale of a motorcycl, made their and BMW's profit and maybe have a returning customer. Or, like the caravan owner, if he'd able to make a clever switch, he'd have been very happy too and the finance house left for a mug. Cancelling short and suffering the penalty for doing so, restores the happiness balance in the finance house's favour. Nothing more, nothing less.


There are several threads on UKGSer where clever punters have agreed to sign up to BMW Finance deals, taking advantage of a significant cash discount to do so. These same punters then take advantage of customer protection laws to cancel the loan within the cooling off period, paying it off in full (with a tiny penalty, for early termination) but still keeping the significant cash discount. That costs BMW something.... And somebody has to pay for it, probably.
 
I understand the above points gents, small print or not, i know bmw finance are within their rights and have the signatures to prove it, and will now implement the relevant clauses in the contract should it be terminated by one party, including applying the gmfv figure.

So I'm sure its all above board, hopefully Jay C can get a better offer for the bike via another source, that he is ok with, and goes further towards the finance settlement.

A few main dealers might be a start.
 
That bike has the perfect spec imo. If I didn't have an almost identical bike already I'd bite his hand off - although I think £9k is a bit toppy. I'll mention to a friend who has a older GS who might be interested. What price would you sell for (PM me ?). It's a long shot but let me know if you want me to ask...
 
That bike has the perfect spec imo. If I didn't have an almost identical bike already I'd bite his hand off - although I think £9k is a bit toppy. I'll mention to a friend who has a older GS who might be interested. What price would you sell for (PM me ?). It's a long shot but let me know if you want me to ask...

Whilst considering whether to compile a for sale listing on here, and that this thread has a good deal of attention, I'll skip the PM and cut straight to the chase for all to see!

£8700 is a price I won't shift from. That does both me and a buyer a big favour! That's not £8600 or £8650 or even £8695 , it's £8700.
 


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