There are only the values of each maps on chip, required decoding.. Any changes works as i want, i was made many test Roger.. i m very sure for maps..
JohnGS1100 Tuning Chip
- Thread starter uncle dick
- Start date
There are only the values of each maps on chip, required decoding.. Any changes works as i want, i was made many test Roger.. i m very sure for maps..
Butchpro
Registered user
Hi John!
What do stages 1 - 3 of your chips mean? As I understand stage 4 is for good fuel (95+), and tage 5 is for high performance air filter and exhaust...
And one more question. Does your chip have several sets of map accessible by code plug? Is there the stock set of maps also?
What do stages 1 - 3 of your chips mean? As I understand stage 4 is for good fuel (95+), and tage 5 is for high performance air filter and exhaust...
And one more question. Does your chip have several sets of map accessible by code plug? Is there the stock set of maps also?
Stage 1-3 is a little correction or adjustment for better AFR, for working by a lite different hardware setup.. The improvement at torque and power is by stage-4 or 5.
Yes there are different setting of maps by using a different CCP plug.
Example for R1150 the seting CCP 30 87 is for a normal AFR, for setting 30 87 87a is for a little richer AFR (large intake tubes, de-cat free air filter, camshafts) and for 30 86 87 or 30 86 87 87a is for using low octane petrols..
CCP settings is similar as the stock chip settings.
So : pin 30 is ground, 86 is for low octane petrols.
For R1150 :
Pins 30 87 stantard setting (GS-R).
Pins 30 87 87a is for all R1150 with large intake injection tubes from RT-RS.
And when connect the pin 86 at all up settings, is for using low octane petrols.
There are no settings for R1150 without lambda connection.
For R850-1100.
Pins 30 87 87a is for GS-R with lamda connection.
Pins 30 87 is for GS-R-RT (fiting large intake injection tubes).
Pins 30 87a is for all R850-1100 without lambda, byt with narrow intake tubes from GS-R.
No CCP is for all R850-1100 without lambda with large intake tubes from RT-RS.
And when connect the pin 86 at all up settings, is for using low octane petrols.
There are not Stock maps at stage 4-5 chip. If the biker want the stock map, can just replace the older chip again.
No needed BMW CCP plug, for setting just use a wire :
At next photo up is the RT-RS intake injection tubes and bottom is a (narrow) GS-R one.
Yes there are different setting of maps by using a different CCP plug.
Example for R1150 the seting CCP 30 87 is for a normal AFR, for setting 30 87 87a is for a little richer AFR (large intake tubes, de-cat free air filter, camshafts) and for 30 86 87 or 30 86 87 87a is for using low octane petrols..
CCP settings is similar as the stock chip settings.
So : pin 30 is ground, 86 is for low octane petrols.
For R1150 :
Pins 30 87 stantard setting (GS-R).
Pins 30 87 87a is for all R1150 with large intake injection tubes from RT-RS.
And when connect the pin 86 at all up settings, is for using low octane petrols.
There are no settings for R1150 without lambda connection.
For R850-1100.
Pins 30 87 87a is for GS-R with lamda connection.
Pins 30 87 is for GS-R-RT (fiting large intake injection tubes).
Pins 30 87a is for all R850-1100 without lambda, byt with narrow intake tubes from GS-R.
No CCP is for all R850-1100 without lambda with large intake tubes from RT-RS.
And when connect the pin 86 at all up settings, is for using low octane petrols.
There are not Stock maps at stage 4-5 chip. If the biker want the stock map, can just replace the older chip again.
No needed BMW CCP plug, for setting just use a wire :
At next photo up is the RT-RS intake injection tubes and bottom is a (narrow) GS-R one.
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
This is the No3 Advance timing map of BMW R1150RT twin. Very poor..
by full open of throttle position the advance is very very slow, poor performance. BMW make this, because of produce R1150RS.
At Rs maps at full open of throttle position the advance is still high so the power still goes a little up than RT..
Up (stock map), Down (Stage 4 map).
RT1150 TWIN Map No 3 , Advance timing
Okay, I understand that the x-axis is rpm. Since you didn't read the values 700, 800, etc. from the Motronic, are those values estimates by you?
On the y-axis, I don't understand the units. It doesn't look like percent load or inches-mercury. Could you help us understand the units?
Last question, are the values in the tables degrees of advance or just the numbers the Motronic works with? They don't look like degrees of advance.
Are there only 8 rows in the spark map or is that just half the map?
Thanks for helping us understand.
Roger is a little difficult to undestanding all these? You think differently (american), different measuring units, mathematics, diagrams - numbers etc. of Europeans.. units and standard.
Here is excacly the maps in bin file in to the chip. The value is on hex code.
should decode at decimal code and sould put the values to a table as you think and make the tables of maps and at finally sould
be calculated in real timing (degrees):
Bin file R1150 TWIN
Address 00DF2A to 00E3AA : Timing Advance Maps of middle throttles.
These are the values (note that in to the bin file, there are more 8 maps for Advance map at full open throttle position, and more 8 maps for advance timing corrections (this is the adapt that you found at the past) :
69 69 69 69 69 64 61 58 50 47 36 2e 25 1f 1a 0b
00 00 6f 6f 6f 6f 69 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14
0e 03 00 00 75 75 75 6f 50 33 25 14 09 03 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 80 80 80 7a 58 41 3c 36 30 2b
22 1c 14 0e 08 03 00 00 83 83 83 80 61 44 3f 39
35 30 28 25 1f 17 11 08 03 00 83 83 83 80 6c 4a
44 3f 39 36 30 2b 25 25 25 25 1c 17 83 83 83 80
6c 55 4d 47 47 47 41 3c 36 33 30 28 1f 1a 83 83
83 80 6c 58 50 4a 4a 4a 4d 4d 4a 44 3e 2d 22 1f
69 69 69 69 69 64 61 58 50 47 36 2e 25 1f 1a 0b
00 00 6f 6f 6f 6f 69 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14
0e 03 00 00 75 75 75 6f 50 33 25 14 09 03 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 80 80 80 7a 58 41 3c 36 30 2b
22 1c 14 0e 08 03 00 00 83 83 83 80 64 55 4a 3e
38 33 2c 28 23 1d 1a 14 0f 00 83 83 83 83 70 62
5b 4a 44 42 3c 39 33 2e 28 22 1c 17 83 83 83 83
7a 6e 68 5a 55 53 4d 47 41 3c 36 30 2a 24 83 83
83 83 83 7a 75 6c 69 66 63 5e 56 50 47 3f 39 33
64 69 6c 68 64 55 52 4a 41 33 2b 24 21 17 04 03
03 03 64 69 6b 64 5e 4c 4a 41 35 25 1f 16 10 00
00 00 00 00 83 80 7a 65 39 2b 22 1d 17 09 02 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 84 83 7d 6f 4f 3b 38 34 2e 2a
20 1d 1c 1a 12 0e 00 00 83 83 80 77 69 4d 47 3f
32 2d 23 1f 1e 1d 1b 15 0c 0c 83 83 83 7d 70 5b
52 49 40 3d 33 2a 20 1d 1b 17 14 14 83 83 83 80
72 5e 58 52 4a 48 3c 35 30 2e 2e 26 1c 14 83 83
83 80 75 61 5d 58 54 52 4b 45 3c 39 38 36 36 36
64 69 6c 68 64 55 52 4a 41 33 2b 24 21 17 04 03
03 03 64 69 6b 64 5e 4c 4a 41 35 25 1f 16 10 00
00 00 00 00 83 80 7a 65 39 2b 22 1d 17 09 02 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 84 83 7d 6f 4f 3b 38 34 2e 2a
20 1d 1c 1a 12 0e 00 00 83 83 80 77 69 4d 47 3f
32 2d 23 1f 1e 1d 1b 15 0c 0c 83 83 83 7d 70 5b
52 49 40 3d 33 2a 20 1d 1b 17 14 14 83 83 83 80
72 5e 58 52 4a 48 3c 35 30 2e 2e 26 1c 14 83 83
83 80 75 61 5d 58 54 52 4b 45 3c 39 38 36 36 36
69 69 69 69 66 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14 0e 03
00 00 6f 6c 69 69 66 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14
0e 03 00 00 72 6f 6c 6c 50 33 2d 25 1f 17 09 03
00 00 00 00 00 00 7d 7d 7a 72 5b 4a 45 3d 36 30
28 25 22 1f 1c 1a 17 14 83 83 83 7a 66 55 4f 47
41 3c 35 32 2e 2a 26 22 1f 1c 83 83 83 7a 6c 5e
58 4d 47 44 40 3e 3b 36 33 30 2b 28 83 83 83 7a
6c 5e 58 4d 4c 4a 47 47 47 44 41 3c 36 33 83 83
83 7a 6c 5e 58 4d 4c 4a 48 47 47 44 41 3c 38 36
69 69 69 69 66 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14 0e 03
00 00 6f 6c 69 69 66 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14
0e 03 00 00 72 6f 6c 6c 50 33 2d 25 1f 17 09 03
00 00 00 00 00 00 7d 7d 7a 72 5b 4a 45 3d 36 30
28 25 22 1f 1c 1a 17 14 83 83 83 7a 66 55 4f 47
41 3c 35 32 2e 2a 26 22 1f 1c 83 83 83 7a 6c 5e
58 4d 47 44 40 3e 3b 36 33 30 2b 28 83 83 83 7a
6c 5e 58 4d 4c 4a 47 47 47 44 41 3c 36 33 83 83
83 7a 6c 5e 58 4d 4c 4a 48 47 47 44 41 3c 38 36
69 69 69 67 5e 58 4c 46 21 1a 0a 06 03 03 03 03
03 03 69 69 69 67 5e 58 4c 46 21 1a 0a 06 03 03
03 03 03 03 69 69 69 5e 52 4b 43 41 21 1a 0a 06
03 03 03 03 03 03 69 69 64 57 47 43 3a 36 21 1b
13 0d 09 09 09 09 09 09 69 69 64 5d 50 4d 42 3a
22 1f 1f 18 09 0a 0d 0f 0f 0e 69 69 5c 5a 50
Here is excacly the maps in bin file in to the chip. The value is on hex code.
should decode at decimal code and sould put the values to a table as you think and make the tables of maps and at finally sould
be calculated in real timing (degrees):
Bin file R1150 TWIN
Address 00DF2A to 00E3AA : Timing Advance Maps of middle throttles.
These are the values (note that in to the bin file, there are more 8 maps for Advance map at full open throttle position, and more 8 maps for advance timing corrections (this is the adapt that you found at the past) :
69 69 69 69 69 64 61 58 50 47 36 2e 25 1f 1a 0b
00 00 6f 6f 6f 6f 69 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14
0e 03 00 00 75 75 75 6f 50 33 25 14 09 03 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 80 80 80 7a 58 41 3c 36 30 2b
22 1c 14 0e 08 03 00 00 83 83 83 80 61 44 3f 39
35 30 28 25 1f 17 11 08 03 00 83 83 83 80 6c 4a
44 3f 39 36 30 2b 25 25 25 25 1c 17 83 83 83 80
6c 55 4d 47 47 47 41 3c 36 33 30 28 1f 1a 83 83
83 80 6c 58 50 4a 4a 4a 4d 4d 4a 44 3e 2d 22 1f
69 69 69 69 69 64 61 58 50 47 36 2e 25 1f 1a 0b
00 00 6f 6f 6f 6f 69 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14
0e 03 00 00 75 75 75 6f 50 33 25 14 09 03 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 80 80 80 7a 58 41 3c 36 30 2b
22 1c 14 0e 08 03 00 00 83 83 83 80 64 55 4a 3e
38 33 2c 28 23 1d 1a 14 0f 00 83 83 83 83 70 62
5b 4a 44 42 3c 39 33 2e 28 22 1c 17 83 83 83 83
7a 6e 68 5a 55 53 4d 47 41 3c 36 30 2a 24 83 83
83 83 83 7a 75 6c 69 66 63 5e 56 50 47 3f 39 33
64 69 6c 68 64 55 52 4a 41 33 2b 24 21 17 04 03
03 03 64 69 6b 64 5e 4c 4a 41 35 25 1f 16 10 00
00 00 00 00 83 80 7a 65 39 2b 22 1d 17 09 02 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 84 83 7d 6f 4f 3b 38 34 2e 2a
20 1d 1c 1a 12 0e 00 00 83 83 80 77 69 4d 47 3f
32 2d 23 1f 1e 1d 1b 15 0c 0c 83 83 83 7d 70 5b
52 49 40 3d 33 2a 20 1d 1b 17 14 14 83 83 83 80
72 5e 58 52 4a 48 3c 35 30 2e 2e 26 1c 14 83 83
83 80 75 61 5d 58 54 52 4b 45 3c 39 38 36 36 36
64 69 6c 68 64 55 52 4a 41 33 2b 24 21 17 04 03
03 03 64 69 6b 64 5e 4c 4a 41 35 25 1f 16 10 00
00 00 00 00 83 80 7a 65 39 2b 22 1d 17 09 02 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 84 83 7d 6f 4f 3b 38 34 2e 2a
20 1d 1c 1a 12 0e 00 00 83 83 80 77 69 4d 47 3f
32 2d 23 1f 1e 1d 1b 15 0c 0c 83 83 83 7d 70 5b
52 49 40 3d 33 2a 20 1d 1b 17 14 14 83 83 83 80
72 5e 58 52 4a 48 3c 35 30 2e 2e 26 1c 14 83 83
83 80 75 61 5d 58 54 52 4b 45 3c 39 38 36 36 36
69 69 69 69 66 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14 0e 03
00 00 6f 6c 69 69 66 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14
0e 03 00 00 72 6f 6c 6c 50 33 2d 25 1f 17 09 03
00 00 00 00 00 00 7d 7d 7a 72 5b 4a 45 3d 36 30
28 25 22 1f 1c 1a 17 14 83 83 83 7a 66 55 4f 47
41 3c 35 32 2e 2a 26 22 1f 1c 83 83 83 7a 6c 5e
58 4d 47 44 40 3e 3b 36 33 30 2b 28 83 83 83 7a
6c 5e 58 4d 4c 4a 47 47 47 44 41 3c 36 33 83 83
83 7a 6c 5e 58 4d 4c 4a 48 47 47 44 41 3c 38 36
69 69 69 69 66 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14 0e 03
00 00 6f 6c 69 69 66 61 5b 52 4a 41 30 28 1c 14
0e 03 00 00 72 6f 6c 6c 50 33 2d 25 1f 17 09 03
00 00 00 00 00 00 7d 7d 7a 72 5b 4a 45 3d 36 30
28 25 22 1f 1c 1a 17 14 83 83 83 7a 66 55 4f 47
41 3c 35 32 2e 2a 26 22 1f 1c 83 83 83 7a 6c 5e
58 4d 47 44 40 3e 3b 36 33 30 2b 28 83 83 83 7a
6c 5e 58 4d 4c 4a 47 47 47 44 41 3c 36 33 83 83
83 7a 6c 5e 58 4d 4c 4a 48 47 47 44 41 3c 38 36
69 69 69 67 5e 58 4c 46 21 1a 0a 06 03 03 03 03
03 03 69 69 69 67 5e 58 4c 46 21 1a 0a 06 03 03
03 03 03 03 69 69 69 5e 52 4b 43 41 21 1a 0a 06
03 03 03 03 03 03 69 69 64 57 47 43 3a 36 21 1b
13 0d 09 09 09 09 09 09 69 69 64 5d 50 4d 42 3a
22 1f 1f 18 09 0a 0d 0f 0f 0e 69 69 5c 5a 50
Yes after all decoding and after calculating in real degrees the final table it is not a similar figure as the hex code values.
Yes 8 rows in the spark map is all the map.
Note that i show you only the preparation of the theoretical calculation of the map.
There is practical verification in which the results are shown immediately.
I use my hardware tools as you use yours, so finally calculated the actual timing advance, AFR and limit potential engine performance.
My tolls are, a external knock sensor (for pings) and a external wideband oxygen sensor (for AFR). These tools are not "computers" or "windows screens", but these are standalone hardware that measure the engine operation completely independently and individually. As used a simple thermometer for measuring the temperature.
By these tools, i see live the real AFR and i hear (live) the pings, i don't care what kind of values are in maps of bin file (hex, dec or real degrees), the conversion into actual degrees is just the theoretical knowledge, for not to constantly repeat the same practice procedure..
So calculated and appreciating differences in values in the table and the differences in actual operation in the engine by great precision.
So practical, at each maps i gives more and more additional until engine have pings, so i know what this is the limit and faster timing advance that needed the engine at each revs of rpm.
Also i gives more additional at injection maps, until see the correct AFR (14,2-12,5:1 from iddle speed to red line) at my external wideband sensor.
I have no restrictions (european emission standards etc.), I have no MARKETING for different mapping from model to model, a parameter only is the octane of gasoline that uses the engine and the harware modification of bike (if have) - ι expect only the perfect thermodynamic engine operation. After all modification at maps, the engine running as best he can afford:
Correct AFR at all revs of rpm and the faster limit timing advance (by no pings) depending of using octane petrols (89,.95,98 ron) depending and variable to all revs of rpm.
With this whole process of amending the maps achieve maximum utilization of thermodynamic combustion engine, so yields more torque and power with less fuel used.
That see at dyno results, that's work called "tuning" :
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
Okay, and thanks for the clarification on number of spark map rows, but all I was asking at first was:
a) the rpm values on the x-axis, how do you get those values
b) in any system of units, what units are the y-axis in. I know the US uses its own units, feel free to explain the units in any system you like. I'm just curious, what they are and how you learned what values to assign the axes (e.g. Why is the first column 700 rpm and not 600 or 800, what does 4,9 mean on the y-axis)
John, I know you're serious about this, I'm just trying to understand.
Now, since you introduced the dyno chart, I want to point out a major problem:
--The reason that your AFR is so high until about 3500 RPM is that the inertial dyno you're using does not provide a proper load at the rear wheel at the start of the test. Right now the engine and intake tract are so lean at the start of the test (due to deceleration of the dyno wheel and fuel cutof during that period) that you're not getting good HP and torque readings till about 4000 RPM.
You should find a way to get 15 NM engine load before you crank the throttle open. That would result in a starting AFR equal to Closed Loop AFR. It would also lead to more accurate results throughout the full run.
a) the rpm values on the x-axis, how do you get those values
b) in any system of units, what units are the y-axis in. I know the US uses its own units, feel free to explain the units in any system you like. I'm just curious, what they are and how you learned what values to assign the axes (e.g. Why is the first column 700 rpm and not 600 or 800, what does 4,9 mean on the y-axis)
John, I know you're serious about this, I'm just trying to understand.
Now, since you introduced the dyno chart, I want to point out a major problem:
--The reason that your AFR is so high until about 3500 RPM is that the inertial dyno you're using does not provide a proper load at the rear wheel at the start of the test. Right now the engine and intake tract are so lean at the start of the test (due to deceleration of the dyno wheel and fuel cutof during that period) that you're not getting good HP and torque readings till about 4000 RPM.
You should find a way to get 15 NM engine load before you crank the throttle open. That would result in a starting AFR equal to Closed Loop AFR. It would also lead to more accurate results throughout the full run.
Roger does not matter, not important discussion and analysis, the only thing I will suggest finally is to try the chip in practice to study itself what exactly i did in the maps.
cbrgaz
Registered user
As John suggests why not try one of his chips and feel the difference. I for one dont understand the black art of modifying the fuelling or ignition timings, but i can say that with Johns chip fitted my bike has been transformed to a very smooth and more powerful bike at all rev's and it wasn't bad when stock.
I can see your trying to understand how John has achieved this Roger.........................but does it really matter? I have had the chip fitted to my single spark r1150gs for over 800 miles now and can honestly say the bike has never ran so well and all the surging i suffered with in the past is gone, i even get an extra 35 miles tank range..........................the proof is in the pudding as they say.
I can see your trying to understand how John has achieved this Roger.........................but does it really matter? I have had the chip fitted to my single spark r1150gs for over 800 miles now and can honestly say the bike has never ran so well and all the surging i suffered with in the past is gone, i even get an extra 35 miles tank range..........................the proof is in the pudding as they say.
I don't understand the technical stuff too much (I'm desperately trying to say "It's all Greek to me")(but feel I may have just failed). I'm also a supporter of the "real world" experience - but my slight concern is the idea that an 1150 chip may produce improvements at the beginning, but then 'learn' to go back to the original settings. It seems to me that this is the inference for an 1150 retaining a lambda sensor...
Mike
cbrgaz
Registered user
Well i have done 800 miles using Johns chip now, so i would have thought it would have started reverting back to stock running by now.........................its running as well now as it did when i first fitted the chip, with no signs of surging. I guess time will tell on this one, but for now i'm extremely happy with Johns work.
cbrgaz
Registered user
Well i have done 800 miles using Johns chip now, so i would have thought it would have started reverting back to stock running by now.........................its running as well now as it did when i first fitted the chip, with no signs of surging. I guess time will tell on this one, but for now i'm extremely happy with Johns work.
It do's say something when the only sceptics are those who don't have one fitted to their bike
Mine's been brilliant, bike's packed and ready for a 2 week ride and after 15 yrs of 1150 ownership I've never looked forward to riding it so much.
That is my concern also, but on looking at the table posted by Roger, it would appear that the green section is the only section that would be reverted back to stock, the whole section appears to be at very low throttle openings.
The issue is that both parties have a vested interest as Roger is selling something as is John. The big difference for me is that Johns is only £60 as opposed to Rogers $198 + shipping.
Rogers arguement makes sense, as the 02 sensor I'd the last point of information feedback for the motronic, but cars and bikes with standard 02 sensors are chipped everyday, so it must be a viable option.
It do's say something when the only sceptics are those who don't have one fitted to their bike
Mine's been brilliant, bike's packed and ready for a 2 week ride and after 15 yrs of 1150 ownership I've never looked forward to riding it so much.
Looking forward to the mpg reports.
Have fun!
It do's say something when the only sceptics are those who don't have one fitted to their bike
Mine's been brilliant, bike's packed and ready for a 2 week ride and after 15 yrs of 1150 ownership I've never looked forward to riding it so much.
I have one in front of me - just haven't fitted it yet...
Ordered one as well. Hoping this sceptic will be proved wrong!
Will report findings.
Arrived today, took four days. Impressive.
Fitted it this afternoon , took ME about 1.5 hrs.
This job ain't for the ham fisted! I include myself in that.
Tip: Have the correct tools including the right size tamper proof torx bit!
Tank removal easy enough even for me who's never worked on a BM before. Removing the "box" the chip sits in is straight forward, splitting the box to get at the chip less so. SLOW AND CAREFULLY is the way to go. It seems to have been sealed with silicone at the factory so prise it apart gently. You also have to be very careful when prising the "old" chip out of position, don't catch the plastic part of the circuit board underneath!
Fitting the new chip and reassembling everything easy enough.
The results??
The bike started straight away no probs. it immediately felt "lighter" on the throttle, revving up quicker.
Only managed a brief 6 mile test run but there is a difference. The slight surging between 3-4k revs seems to have been eliminated. The bike seems more willing to rev, picking up cleaner.
More power? Not sure, need a longer ride to really tell. MPG? Again time will tell, but hoping for an improvement.
So pleasantly surprised, it does make a difference. Does it completely transform the bike like some like some have claimed? Not for me TBH, but it's early days. More miles on the road will tell.
Just fitted mine. I turned on the ignition and the bike immediately became sentient and told me to lose weight if I really wanted improved performance. It then self-started and hovered around the garden distilling its own fuel from grass-clippings, before examining my garage and advising me to reorganise it.
Well worth €60...
Well worth €60...
Well, just back from 60ish miles.
Amazing - I kept on trying to change into seventh gear. If it has achieved this and kept the consumption the same I'll be very impressed...
Mike
Amazing - I kept on trying to change into seventh gear. If it has achieved this and kept the consumption the same I'll be very impressed...
Mike
jeremyj
Registered user
Mine too arrived today will fit it tomorrow and report back
Jeremy
Jeremy
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