Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!

Thanks for taking the time to post the videos. One thing is clear, and that is that there are a multitude of different ways to plot routes. My preference is to use a minimum of waypoints - start and end and perhaps one for a lunch stop in between. I let the software calculate the fastest route between these two points and then use drag n drop to shape it to my liking.

A couple of points about drag and drop (or inserting a shaping point):
1. if you have the 'hand' tool active, then if you place the hand over the active route, and hold down 'Alt' then the left mouse acts like the insert tool and you can drag the route to a different road, creating a new shaping point. Release the Alt key and the hand is active again so you can drag the map around. It allows you to quickly change a route using only the mouse, scroll wheel and keyboard.
2. if your shaping point ends up being near a named feature - could be a town, or a school or a business - then the shaping point is 'announced', and is in effect a way/via point. This is most likely to happen if you use drag n drop with the map zoomed out so there is little precision in where the shaping point is dropped.
3. to quickly turn all points to 'not announced' open the finished route, use Shift, L click to highlight a series of entries (in my case usually everything between start and end), then R-click to set these entries as 'not announced'.
4. if you stop en route for a coffee at somewhere not marked and turn off the 590, it will resume the route when switched back on. If you've gone off route, and recalc is off, then riding back to the purple line will get the route going again.

Not sure if you've mentioned this, but you can get the 'Skip' icon onto the main map navigation screen (on the Nav V it is buried beneath 2 or 3 layers of menu). This makes it far more convenient to use.
 
Hi jfheath

My Route was quite long and because of this i used minimal via points from Barcelona to La Rochelle, one was Puigcerdà and probably one more as I was planning to motorway it after the Pyrenees.

It could be deemed as user error but only if your fully aware of the consequence of which option you take.

The offered option was Puigcerdà, the second via point and the destination La Rochelle on the route for the "Where to" question I think by default the set will offer you to the first one. Which will take you along the desired route.

I cant remember exactly but i must have taken the last point the destination La Rochelle (i have no idea why) at this point the set ignored the planned trip and took me the fastest route (Peage) around the Pyrenees to La Rochelle.

You could also state I should have realised what was happening but like a lemming i was in the follow the Magenta route mode and admiring the scenery, I have never ridden this route before so it was unfamiliar.

I have like you tested some local routes and layering a track to see the way the set recalculates and i have seen how it will recalculate to the next via point.
The problem is I chose the last point so it ignored all the points before it, which as I write this now seems glaringly obvious.
I wrongly assumed it would still follow the route. If i had picked the second via point it would have ignored Puigcerdà and probably taken me around the Pyrenees on the Peage anyway.
 
I have like you tested some local routes and layering a track to see the way the set recalculates and i have seen how it will recalculate to the next via point.
The problem is I chose the last point so it ignored all the points before it, which as I write this now seems glaringly obvious.
I wrongly assumed it would still follow the route. If i had picked the second via point it would have ignored Puigcerdà and probably taken me around the Pyrenees on the Peage anyway.

Now - I just went out to test something else, and spotted an oddity, so I came back and tried some tests from home. One of my previous assertions is now questionable. That is that when you choose the next destination having selected the route, you are selecting a via point (as shaping points are not displayed) and the satnav chooses its own route to that via point.
I know for a fact that this happened the first time that I tested it.
Yet tonight, it didn't. It plotted a route which took in all of the shaping points to the via point that I had selected. I tried again a few times. Thinking it might be the satnav which remembers my frequently used routes, I selected a route on roads which I have not ridden. Again it visited all of the shaping points in between, even though the direct route is faster.
I was plotting from A to B to C to D, with B and C as shaping points. A is my current location.

The only difference between this and my first test is that my first test weeks ago was done with routes transferred from Basecamp. The tests tonight were done with routes entered direct to the Zumo.

So at present, I don't know. I know it behaved differently before from the way it is behaving now - I checked my notes. So some part of my test must be different.
 
Not sure if you've mentioned this, but you can get the 'Skip' icon onto the main map navigation screen (on the Nav V it is buried beneath 2 or 3 layers of menu). This makes it far more convenient to use.

Oh - I think there shoud be, but I haven't found out how to do that yet. Do tell, Tomcat !
 
Ok - my Post #43 - update. (Where is the edit button for my posts ?)

No I was right in the first place. If you select a via point as your next destination, then the satnav ignores all of the shaping points AND the via points in order to take you to your selected destination, as I had first thought.

The only reason that my test tonight didn't do this is because I was sitting inside the car, outside my house at the start point. In other words, I had already started navigating the route, and in those circumstances, the satnav has already decided to use the via points and shaping points. (But I had to press 'Skip' to stop it from taking me back a few yards to where it thought my home was).

No I was right in the first place. ie If you select a via point as your next destination, then the satnav ignores all of the shaping points AND the via points up to that selected Via Point, in order to take you 'direct' to your selected destination. ('direct' in this case meaning using the satnavs routing preferences)

I took some screen shots to demonstrate this:

Full route (composite of 3 Zumo 590 screens) showing all 4 via points and all 6 shaping points - I placed two shaping points in between each pair of via points:

WalesRoute.jpg


--------------

The 'Select Next Destination' screen shows only the 4 Via Points: Keighley, Chester, Shrewsbury, Tenby.

SelectNext.jpg


------------

In the following maps, the end point is shown as the chequered flags. The Via points are shown as orange flags. The green flag is the start.

The full route showing Keighley (near top), Chester (Under M in Manchester), Shrewsbury (Near B in Birmingham) and Tenby (Chequered Flag).
Note the light blue dots showing the shaping points. There are 2 between each via point flag on the route. (The two to the right of the Green Manchester dot are harder to spot)

This route was shown on the Zumo if Keighley was chosen as the next destination - about 10 miles from the actual start.
ALL of the shaping points and via points are shown on the map.

SelectKeighley.jpg


---------------

The next screen shows the route if Chester is selected as the next destination.
Note that the two shaping points near Manchester have gone, and the route goes to the left of Manchester. The route after Chester remains intact with its 2 remaining Via point flags and 4 shaping points.

SelectChester.jpg


-----------------------------------

The next screen shows the route if Shrewsbury is selected as the next destination. Note the Chester Via point has gone and all 4 shaping points (blue dots). The route now takes a more direct line to Shrewsbury and misses out the shaping points at Glossop, Macclesfield, and those in Wales at Machynlleth and Bala. Beyond Shrewsbury the route continues as planned.

SelectShrewsbury.jpg


------------------------

Finally, if Tenby is chosen as the next destination, then all via points and all shaping points are lost. The satnav calculates the entire route, so your nice motorbike run over Holme Moss, Snake Pass, The Cat and Fiddle, The A494, and the ride over Black Mountain Pass are gone and you get to take a much more direct route on main roads and motorways.

SelectTenby.jpg
 
jfheath's post #45 sums it up nicely and correctly.

The important thing is that the way the device operates has nothing to do with the (needlessly) derided BaseCamp but all to do with the devices' much more advanced routing options. Earlier Garmin GPS devices used to carry only a couple of basic prompts, things like: 'Would you like to navigate to the start of the route?' and 'Please drive to highlighted route'. These very basic prompts are gone, replaced by a more advanced options. But learning the advances takes time and can cause some problems. Learning to use BaseCamp can actually help as the software enables you to make all sorts of subtle changes and tweaks to a pre-planned route, which enables much better use of the latest devices' more advanced functions.

Don't be afraid to try things out. As jfheath's and Tomcat's posts show, you really cannot break it and, no matter how hard you try, the device will ALWAYS get you home again. Whether that route home is exactly the way YOU want to go is another matter entirely. By learning and experimenting YOU will be able to better YOUR chances that it is.

Having used GPS devices since the very first and very crude devices first appeared, I think I am pretty good at using Mapsource and now BaseCamp and the latest devices but I still make some schoolboy errors. Knowing how the software works helps me to get myself out of the problems I have created but the learning does require some effort. Make the effort and you'll have a really good traveling companion.
 
Spot on jfheath! that confirms it for me.

Another vital thing to remember with this as I have experienced is:- If you are half way through your route and lets use your route for example and you were between Machynlleth and Shrewsbury. For what ever reason you have to stop the route and re start it (this has happened to me a few times)

Because you are starting to all intents and purposes a "new" route the Zumo will not automatically restart the route from where you are.

It will ask you to select a via point from the list you then have decide which one.
At this point it is very easy here to select the first via point Keighley rather than Shrewsbury the Zumo will then re route you back to Keighley which would be devastating!
With this example it is obvious to us that Shrewsbury should be selected, but if you don't know exactly how far along the route you are its important you consider the correct point.

My advice here is to find somewhere safe to stop and figure out by zooming out on the map where you are in relation to the next point and selecting the correct one.
Not something you want to be trying to sort out on the move unless you are certain. If you are unsure of the correct via point you may also have to use the skip function until the directions given are favourable.

For anyone reading these posts who re considering buying a Zumo please don't be put off, once you are aware of how it functions you will get the best out of the set and not ruin your day.
 
Re Jersey GS's post, maybe the easiest way is to display the route you have deviated from but not run it. Then simply do what we used to do: 'Navigate to highlighted route'.

OK, it does require a bit of thought - very akin to following a paper map - but it works. For someone who only ever uses shaping points, it's what I do.
 
Oh - I think there shoud be, but I haven't found out how to do that yet. Do tell, Tomcat !

OK, but I have a Nav V, not the 590. Try this: Settings/Map and Vehicle/(scroll down list)Map Buttons. You can then add two buttons to the map - the standard one is stop navigating to route. I can't remember how you select which 2 buttons you want to display, but it should become obvious when you play around in this part of the menu.
 
OK, but I have a Nav V, not the 590. Try this: Settings/Map and Vehicle/(scroll down list)Map Buttons. You can then add two buttons to the map - the standard one is stop navigating to route. I can't remember how you select which 2 buttons you want to display, but it should become obvious when you play around in this part of the menu.

Thanks for the info. It is clearly slightly different on the 590 - The Skip button was added later to the 590 software - it appears as an early fix in Garmin's list. The option to make it visible is there, and I had already turned that on, but it doesn't appear on the main screen. Instead I have to tap the 3 line menu button, and then select Skip. I'd like it to be on the main navigation screen somewhere down the side.

Tapping one button when driving when I know where exactly the button is - no problem - it can be done without taking my eyes off the road, but pressing a button and then having to choose from 9+ icons - that's getting into the realms of driving without due care.

I'm sure Garmin will fix this at some time, but how you send a message to them, I don't know. I have a list of bugs. The support desk don't seem to want to know, they just seem to pull out stock answers from a database that match one of the words in your question and send that back as an answer. That's my experience anyway.
 
Ok - nearly a year later, but just adding a little more info for anyone finding this thread for the first time. Referring to my post #45 about how the route is calculated if you choose different Via Points (the ones that alert) when prompted to 'Select Next Destination'. I said that a direct route is calculated to the selected 'next destination' using the satnav's routing preferences. What I didn't say - because I have only just found this out - is that the routing preferences seem to be taken from the preferences that were set in BaseCamp for that particular route. So if you have your Bike's routing preferences set to 'Curvy Roads', but when you created the route in Basecamp you selected a profile with 'Fastest Route' as the routing preference - then the route to the 'Next Destination' selected will be using the Fastest Route. This setting can be changed once the route has been Imported by clicking the 3 bar menu, scrolling down the edit options and selecting 'Route Preference'.
 
Hi All.

Been following this thread for the last few months trying to get more use from the 590 and today I tried a route:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Y...JOXCDicX1D6VYtUmPAHc067oTTnAKdF=w1560-h960-no

And

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AaJ6elP1Jmnqv2AX9YF7ehTaxvOGUEYw.

I had no U turns selected in the 590 and recalculate set on. In Basecamp I clicked on a few roads, 556, 557 etc and then set all but the 1st and last to 'don't alert'. Just after 556 I missed the right turn to 557 expecting the 590 to take the next right getting me back on route for 558. However, I got a u turn instruction. I pressed the skip button and everything went as expected from there. 556, 557 etc appear as small black dots (shaping nodes?) which I thought would be ignored if I missed a turn and the 590 would get me to the next one, in the route list they appear to be via points (won't alert) which the 590 will insist I visit, requiring the skip button, now on duplication of the route in Basecamp, I am asked if I want to duplicate the waypoints 556, 557 etc. Additionally, all these 'kin mystery shapingviawaypoints end up in my favourites in the 590! Can someone put me out of my misery here, where am I going wrong?
 
Further to my post #45 above, I notice in the route list in Basecamp now that the shapingviawaypoints I created are there as well as others that I didn't explicitly create, B45212 for example. I can see no difference between them.
 
Further to my post #45 above, I notice in the route list in Basecamp now that the shapingviawaypoints I created are there as well as others that I didn't explicitly create, B45212 for example. I can see no difference between them.

I've done some testing with routes/recalculations/etc. in advance of a European trip in August. I wanted to know in advance what the Garmin would do in certain scenarios when we deviated from the pre-planned route that I had 'designed' at home.

Have a read through what I found - http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/475006-More-post-4-90-update-testing

One thing to note is that I'm working with a Nav VI as opposed to a 590, but you may find some of the info useful...
 
Hi All.
Been following this thread for the last few months trying to get more use from the 590 and today I tried a route:

Hi stratblue - I can probably help you with this - although I'm less inclined when your Custom User Title is swearing at me as I reply !!
I've downloaded the GPX file from the 2nd link, and I'll make some observations from my view of the GPX file in Basecamp.

Point 56 is plotted everso slightly off route - it lies just a tad south of the B4233, and you have to zoom all the way into BaseCamp to see it. The chances are that when riding, this point will not be an issue - it is sufficiently close to the actual route for the Zumo 590 to assume that you have visited it. However - it is the sort of thing that can cause you problems when you are on tour and following the Zumo route. It can cause a recalculation, or it will continue to nag you to go back and visit the point.

Just after 556 I missed the right turn to 557 expecting the 590 to take the next right getting me back on route for 558.

No - you have missed point 557, so the Zumo 590 will not attempt to take you to point 558, it will take you to point 557, unless you press skip - or you pick up the magenta route further along. The 590 is quite happy for you to miss out a shaping (do not alert) point, but until you are back onto the magenta route, it will continue to take you back to the point that it is expecting you to visit next - ie point 557. If you had decided to ignore the satnav and take the next right on the B4233 roughly in the direction of Brynderi, as soon as you joined Tal-y-Coed lane, you would have been on the magenta route. It would probably have asked you to turn right, to go back to 557, but when you turn left it would continue to take you on to 558.

Note that this doesn't happen if you miss a Via Point (alerting point). You HAVE to visit a Via Point, unless you press Skip (Which is now illegal to do when driving - 6 points).

However, I got a u turn instruction. I pressed the skip button and everything went as expected from there.

Hmmm. Pressing the Skip button stops the Zumo from trying to take you to its next point (557) and instead it calculates a new route, using its own routing preferences that are set in the zumo for your current transportation mode (bike, car, offroad). Likely as not, this will be a different route from the one that you plotted on Basecamp - but in this case there are not that many options.

Now - that first bit. "However, I got a u turn instruction".

Note that in the Zumo, the option is to 'Avoid U turns'. Sometimes they are necessary, so it may be one of those situations. But I am making a big assumption here that you were riding the motorcycle at the time, and you were not in the car ?? Whether you were or not, this next bit is quite important for understanding what can apparently go wrong with the Zumo 590 (and 595). In fact, nothing goes wrong, its just that we don't understand what it is actually doing.

Your route was drawn in Automotive mode and the preferences were set for faster time. I can tell that from the first few lines of the GPX file that I downloaded.

The Zumo 590 has a number of different operating modes - Car, Motorcycle and Offroad, and certain features can be set for each of those different modes. These are Vehicle icon, Driving Map View, Map Detail, Map Theme, Map Layers, AutoZoom, Audible Speed Alerts, Calculation Mode, Off route recalculation, Avoidances, Custom Avoidances, Tolls and Fees, Restricted Mode, Orientation and Traffic Trends.

Put the Zumo into car mode and set some of these features, and then put it into Bike mode and look at the features and they may have changed. The very obvious one is the screen display orientation. Change the mode - car / motorcycle - and the screen changes orientation immediately.

Now that cradle. Put the unit into the car cradle and it should behave with the car settings. Put it into the bike cradle, and it should be set for the bike settings. But it isn't quite as simple as that.

I am guessing that your Zumo 590 was set in bike mode when you turned off the U turn feature. And I am guessing that the 'Avoid U turn' feature was turned on for the car mode.

Your route was created on Basecamp for a car. You put the Zumo into the bike cradle, and the Zumo sets itself to be in Bike mode. You start your route - but it was created for a car in Basecamp - and immediately that you load it, the Zumo is switched into car mode and uses the car preferences - ie U turns are allowed again ! Worse than that - the next time you plug your Zumo into the bike cradle, it will now automatically switch itself to car mode - until you physically set it to be in bike mode again - whilst the Zumo is in the bike cradle.



556, 557 etc appear as small black dots (shaping nodes?)

When you create a shaping node in Basecamp, they tend to appear as black dots which represents the fact that the point is newly created and doesn't exist in Basecamp's database of towns, attractions and other stored waypoints. If you happen to drop the required shaping point onto an existing waypoint, Basecamp will assign the icon associated with that waypoint, and it will become a Via Point (alerting). If you change your points from shaping to alerting points (or vice versa) , the icon remains the same - so you cannot tell that a point is a shaping point just by looking at the little black dot. All you know is that it WAS a shaping point when you placed it.

In the route list they appear to be via points (won't alert) which the 590 will insist I visit, requiring the skip button......
...... all these mystery shapingviawaypoints end up in my favourites in the 590!

I think you are missing a key point about all of these shapingviawaypoint. They are different and behave differently.

Via Points - is now the term used by Garmin to indicate a point on a route (notice I do not use the term
'waypoint') which will alert you on arrival. The 590 insists that you visit a via point. When you start a route, the Zumo will ask you where you want to go to next. It will list the start point, the end point and it will also list any Via points that you have created. Garmin's use of this term didn't seem to be as defined as this when the 550 and the 660 were the latest satnav units. Via points can be used in the data display eg 'Time to Via', 'Distance to Via'. Via points show up as a flag on the 590 display.

Shaping Points - is the term used to add extra points along a route to a route to force navigation along a particular road. The satnav will navigate you to this point and will take you back if you go past one - however, if you continue to navigate and join up with the magenta route, it won't care that you have gone past a shaping point. Shaping points behave in similar way to the route points on the zumo 660 in that respect. Shaping points don't alert, they cannot be featured on the data display (Time to .., Distance to...), they do not appear in the list of next destinations from which to choose when you start to navigate a route. They appear is blue spots on the satnav screen when navigating (depending on the theme that you use, I suppose).

Waypoints - this term is often used incorrectly. A waypoint is not a point on a route. It is a previously stored point - either in Garmin's database of towns, attractions, petrol stations etc etc, or as points that you have created yourself. Typically these will have a name and an icon, and often have other info such as address, phone number. They are there to be used when plotting a route.
However, as soon as you put them into a route, they have to behave as either a shaping point or as a via point. BY default, when a predefined waypoint is put into a route, it acts as a Via Point (alerting).
Any via point can be changed to a shaping point when it is in a route. Any shaping point can be changed to a via point. This can be done easily in Basecamp, and just as easily after the route has been transferred to the Zumo 590.


Additionally, all these 'kin mystery shapingviawaypoints end up in my favourites in the 590!


Yes The Zumo will retain your own Basecamp route exactly as you plotted it. Look at the contents of your GPX file and you will see hundreds of gpxx points (I refer to them as ghost points). These force the Zumo to follow the same route as you had in Basecamp. However, as soon as your satnav recalculates the route, it loses all of this information and has to work on the routing points that you have fixed. For that, it needs to have all of the Via and Shaping points stored. It then uses its own internal routing preferences that you have set on the Zumo for the car (your route was planned for a car, so the zumo uses the car preferences it has) and creates a brand new route between where you are and the next route point on the route.

now on duplication of the route in Basecamp, I am asked if I want to duplicate the waypoints 556, 557 etc....
Further to my post #45 above, I notice in the route list in Basecamp now that the shapingviawaypoints I created are there as well as others that I didn't explicitly create, B45212 for example. I can see no difference between them.


When you copy a route, you are given an option to duplicate the route points that make up that route. Generally speaking, in Basecamp, there is no need to do this. Basecamp works with one copy of the point in question and this same point can exist in many different routes. If you say yes, then you get an extra copy
When the points are duplicated, Basecamp has to distinguish them for the original point. So you will have Point 557 and you will also have point 5571. Duplicate them again, and you will have point 5572 - and so on. The duplicated route will now use the oddly named points rather than the original.
The same sort of thing happens when you add a shaping point to a route. The B4233 is quite a long road. Put a shaping point on there, and Basecamp will call it B4233. Put another shaping point on and it will call it B42331. Now if you duplicate the route you will get a whole string of digits after the name.

Phew.


Sorry it is so long winded. I have done a lot of testing with Basecamp and the Zumo 590, and have been tearing my hair out, having moved on from the 550 and the 660. The 590 / 595 units are very different beasts, but they are still very good at what they do. But they have a few gotchas built in.


The 590 for example, will remember your own riding preferences and routes, and it will adjust the route that it calculates based on your history that it has collected. Also, with every new set of map updates, it comes with Traffic Trends. Some roads at particular times can be busy. If you have faster time set as a preference, then it will use this historic data to guess at how busy the road is, and it will calculate very different routes at midnight from the one that it will calculate at 17:00.


I have quite a large document that I have written with illustrations taken from Basecamp and Zumo. Some members on here have found it useful, but I have recently updated it and added a whole new section on profiles, preferences and cradles. I'm not a full member on this forum - and don't own a GS. I just joined in this discussion having come across it on Google when I was researching, and thought I'd give something back.


Let me know if you want a copy, I'll find some way of getting it to you.


Just one thing - stop swearing at me !
 
Hi stratblue - I can probably help you with this - although I'm less inclined when your Custom User Title is swearing at me as I reply !!


Just one thing - stop swearing at me !

Crikey! This is above and beyond the call of duty. Puts you permanently on the friend list, in fact your on the tea and biscuits list if you're ever passing. I need to digest all this so a meaningful reply will take a while. Thanks for taking the time to type all this and I think I will change the sig. now the truth about Google and the like is more out there.
 
Stratblue set recalculate to prompted it stops the device recalculating your basecamp route whenever you take a wrong turn. Should you go off route and the 590 prompts you to recalculate select No.
Your route stays as you want it, unaffected, you just need to navigate yourself back onto it which is generally easy, but may sometimes involve stopping and zooming out the map.

All routing instruction will cease until you find your way back onto the magenta route. This is how mine is set and i always use the car mode.
 


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