Drive shaft check

Slipperyeel

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There's still something niggling me with the bike. I called steptoe who kindly put me straight on my recent concern about the cam chain behaviour (normal btw!). But to me there is this little pulsing/rhythm within the bike. I still need to balance the throttle bodies, but can't believe that's it.

When I roll the bike backwards for parking up, I can sometimes hear a little creaking coming from the rear of the bike. But not always. My suspicion is dry UJ but the only way to be sure is to get the shaft out and take a look, so that's the plan for this weekend. Oh, riding home last night, down hill, I pulled in the clutch to see if the little rhythm disappeared (therefore pointing to engine as the source). It seemed to remain, a little like a stone was stuck in the tread and tick ticking with every revolution, except it's not really a ticking, very feint heart beat is the only way I can describe it. I can't feel any vibrations or anything in the foot pegs, which I'd kind of expect if the UJs really were dying?

So, anyone got any tips or thoughts before I get in there. I'm taking for granted the swing arm has to come off and I've made myself a modified socket for the paralever lock nut. If it's all OK, at least I can grease the bearings and splines then have some peace of mind!
 
The pulsing thing sounds familiar, my 1150 has been doing it since forever at some steady speeds. Hasn't blown up yet, so I've pretty much stopped caring.

Is the creaking your paralever bearings? When mine failed, I'd hear a creak over speed bumps and the like, or when pumping the back of the bike down and back up when stationary.
 
Long back when I needed to replace my final drive pivot lever bearings, I ended up pulling the whole paralever off and checking it all.
Despite what I read and was careful, i did manage to get the UJ out of phase. They do need to be aligined.
The result was that when cornering the bike would fall in to Left handers and i had to really push it to go around right handers (at least I think it was that way round).

On the straight, I dont remember, but I wanted to tell you about getting the UJ in phase when re-assembling.

Always start with the simple things.
The paralever / final drive is pretty simple really, one step at a time, warm up to soften the thread lock. Check the pivot bearings. If you put new ones in, make sure they have a good amount of proper grease in them, and appropriate grease too. Put the bearings in the freezer for a good while before installing them, make sure there is no moisture on them, don't want to set up any corrosion opportunity.

Take your time when reassembling the pivot bearings, gently do them up, not to tight so they bind, not too loose that they are loose.
After a while, you might want to check them and re-torque / torque check them. They will settle.

Oh, another thing, the pivot bearings can go in two ways, but if you put them in the wrong way, the inside will fall out. DAMHIK.
There are torque values required when re-assembling.

To reconnect the drive shaft, put the forward end on and connected (be sure it is connected properly, the internal circlip in the groove). Connect the aft section of drive shaft to the final drive and then a long screw drive to probe in and lift the fwd section so the aft section mates and then slides in. Sounds easier than it is. Alternative is to use some rope to stuff in there and hold the forward section up and then when mated and slide in, pull the rope out DONT leave any behind!
Remember to have it in first gear! other wise it will rotate.
Maybe you have one of the later shafts with a master spline, will be easier if you do.
If not and you dont get the UJ aligned, then you will get the first situation above. If you do, at least you know how to solve it!

Also, when doing up the torque link, weight has to be applied (from memory) so that the rubber bushes on the final drive connection are in a good position.

The rubber boot at the forward end can be tricky to re-install, there is a circlip type arrangement there. bit tricky to install I found, but fairly easy really.

I put some torque check on teh nuts and pivot pins just to see if they moved, can also use nail varnish or model paint. Do this just to see if the nuts / pins move.

Thats about it for diss-assembly / reassembly.

As for checking your UJ, feel, look, thought and check.
There is lots on UKGSER and ADV about it.
I havent had my paralever apart for a long time so I cant remember what its like in there.

Well, that is about all I have.
Somebody maybe by to tell you there are easier way, I am used to that.
That is how I do it.
 
The shaft is in two parts, splined together. You can remove the FD and pull the rear part of the shaft on its own, leaving the swing arm in place. There are two types of shaft for the 1150, only I believe the very late Adventures had a master spline so the shaft could only be re-assembled in the correct alignment. Earlier ones could be put back in any position but it's important to get the two UJ's on these earlier bikes phased correctly. I can't remember the correct position with certainty but a search of the 1150 forum section will find a post I seem to remember by Steptoe telling you how it should be done. Get it wrong and you can have a pulsing from the drive, if the previous owner had the drive apart for paralever bearing for example this may be your problem.

A simple fix that costs nothing but a bit of your time. Use a length of rag to support the shaft as you re-attach the FD and then pull the rag out once the splines have started to engage. Another Steptoe tip that will save skinned fingers and much cursing :D You'll aslo need to heat the paralever fixings for removal (and swing-arm if you remove those) as they are loctited.

Edit, Too slow to post :D

Second edit, the engine side uj supports, one on the gearbox output shaft and one on the drive shaft itself should be at 90º to each other.
 
I really appreciate the feedback. It's going to be useful. It sounds like it'll do no harm to get in there and just check everything anyway but hopefully it turns out to just be a maintenance job and I don't actually find something. At least I'll have 3 weeks to sort it out if I do.

Should have said, it's an 05 GSA, so hopping/expecting it has the master spline. Ordering some parts from MW today.

What grease for the paralever bearings? I've got moly for the shaft splines and some lithium for the bearings or should I use something else for those?



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Grease
I dont know these days
I sue Castrol waterproof wheel bearing grease for things that rotate and Thixogrease for things that dont rotate much - like paralever bearings

I doubt you will find thixogrease - we use it in aviation. It is really good in high load applications that dont have much rotational movement

Cant help you much more than that
 
Should have said, it's an 05 GSA, so hopping/expecting it has the master spline.

Should have the master spline, whilst you have the FD off just reach in and make sure that the UJ's move freely with no notchiness.
 
Should have the master spline, whilst you have the FD off just reach in and make sure that the UJ's move freely with no notchiness.

Thanks for that. Has made me realise I might get a good idea how the UJ is at the gearbox end without removing the swing arm.

Thanks all for the input. Of course I hope I find nothing and it just turns out to be a maintenance check. But if I do, at least I'll know I'm not going nuts! I'll let you all know which it turns out to be

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Something else for you to consider... Very recently had the Ohlins rear unit serviced on my 05 adventure.

Partway into a 1600 mile trip following the service the back end developed a real 'rusty bed spring' noise which I nailed down to the bottom bushes of the shocker (thought this might have been included in the service but apparently not).

Try this ... Bike on side stand and bounce the back end up and down a few times ...if you get the creaking grip the spring and apply the pressure to the back end again and see if you can 'feel' the creaking there - if so you may find your bushes need replacement.

Worth a try if nothing else.
 
Something else for you to consider... Very recently had the Ohlins rear unit serviced on my 05 adventure.

Partway into a 1600 mile trip following the service the back end developed a real 'rusty bed spring' noise which I nailed down to the bottom bushes of the shocker (thought this might have been included in the service but apparently not).

Try this ... Bike on side stand and bounce the back end up and down a few times ...if you get the creaking grip the spring and apply the pressure to the back end again and see if you can 'feel' the creaking there - if so you may find your bushes need replacement.

Worth a try if nothing else.

Creaking like that can also be the swing arm bearings on the way out too
 
:eek:thanks for that John ... All quiet since the bushes were replaced (fingers crossed):thumb2
 
:eek:thanks for that John ... All quiet since the bushes were replaced (fingers crossed):thumb2

I had the creak & it was the swing arm bearings & trunnions in my case

Never checked the shock bush, but will bear in mind for future reference
 
Reading this I might as well just get the swing arm off as well. Drive shaft aside, all the other parts should be readily available if they need replacing.

I want to get onto it now! Alas, the day job ensures it'll have to be Saturday! Bah!

Thanks again. Some really useful tips.



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G
Reading this I might as well just get the swing arm off as well. Drive shaft aside, all the other parts should be readily available if they need replacing.

I want to get onto it now! Alas, the day job ensures it'll have to be Saturday! Bah!

Thanks again. Some really useful tips.



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I'd bet the creaking is the para lever bearings. What usually happens is that they brinnel and create impact grooves in the races due to the tiny angular movement and lack of adjustment. This can cause the bearing to lock up and start to rotate on the paralever pin rather than rotating like it should. This causes the creak.

If they are brinnelled then there's no point trying to adjust the problem out - they'll just lock up again. Budget for replacements and sit down before you look at the prices.

As to grease, use any sticky high moly grease - CV joint grease is good.

Read up on removing and replacing the paralever pinions - you need lots of heat to soften the factory green loctite. When replacing them, don't bother with loctite (or just use normal blue stuff). The torque for the adjustable pin is very light (will need a low range torque wrench) and you'll need a way to hold this pin as you do up the locknut.

Pics below of my paralever bearing / pinion.
 

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Matt. Thanks for the input. Especially about thread lock. I've only got blue so that's what I'll use.

But you've also caused me to check my small torque wrench and I now see is min setting is 8nm. I was going to opt for about 9-10nm (after doing a bit of searching and watching Mr Harris doing the same job ). But don't trust those wrenches on a min setting, I'd always prefer to be comfortably into the adjustment range. What's the view that? The wrench is rated 8-60nm...

Disassembly looks relatively straightforward. I'm interested in what I'll find. Your images will be an interesting comparison! Will report back. Heading out to the post office now to collect the MW delivery, then home with a warm bike to start work.

Cheers


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Matt. Thanks for the input. Especially about thread lock. I've only got blue so that's what I'll use.

But you've also caused me to check my small torque wrench and I now see is min setting is 8nm. I was going to opt for about 9-10nm (after doing a bit of searching and watching Mr Harris doing the same job ). But don't trust those wrenches on a min setting, I'd always prefer to be comfortably into the adjustment range. What's the view that? The wrench is rated 8-60nm...

Disassembly looks relatively straightforward. I'm interested in what I'll find. Your images will be an interesting comparison! Will report back. Heading out to the post office now to collect the MW delivery, then home with a warm bike to start work.

Cheers

I'd say your wrench will be fine - they generally slacken off and under torque with age anyway. When you're fitting the new (or existing if they're ok) bearings and re-torquing the pinion, disassemble the bearings and pack them with grease, then slightly over torque the pinion and rotate the final drive up and down a couple of times to seat everything. Then back them off and torque them to whatever setting you choose. When you've done the final torque check for free play by wiggling the FD around.

When you're doing up the big locknut, you'll need to hold the adjustable pinion still while you tighten the locknut. This can be tricky without the special tool (I bought and eBay version in the end) but you can do it with an Allen bit / socket wrench and a big ring spanner for the locknut. Once you'be got a decent torque on the locknut with the ring spanner, you can swap to a socket and torque wrench for the final tightening - the adjustable pinion shouldn't move once you've started to tighten the locknut but use some marker pen witness marks to be sure.

Don't underestimate the heat you'll need to soften the existing loctite. People have destroyed the threads in the swingarm by cranking on them when cold ;)
 
When you tighten the locknut side, torque the inner pin and scribe a reference mark on the pin and swingarm casing. Tighten up the locknut with a ring or open ended spanner making sure the reference marks keep aligned (I.e..the inner pin hasn't moved), finally torque up lock nut with socket. Check the reference marks are still aligned and job done. For peace of mind a blob of paint on the lock nut and swing arm will give you a visual check that nothing has loosened- no need for thread lock.
 
Ok. Got the FD off without too much trouble. Matt, thanks for the note about needing to get the pins hotter than i might think. I am sure this meant everything behaved with no drama :thumb2

I do however think i've found the source of the little 'rhythm' i could sense. But I need some experienced input. See video below.

https://youtu.be/XY6ggUstmNg

When i turn the UJ (which is clean, smooth and free of notches - when i turn the shaft the other end feels good too, even though i can't see it - so UJs off the list of suspects) it is notchy as hell, in fact its difficult to turn at points. My guess is the big bearing is shagged, even though it looks good? But could it be the pinion bearings? Clearly it has to come apart. There was a pile if filings on the drain plug which i didn't have a year ago.

I'm going to dig out the 7mm allen key (it's hiding somewhere!) and open it up.
 
That looks bad - I think you've found your problem!
Should be completely smooth to turn. As you say, I'd open it up and check all the bearings. Does the big bearing cage look intact? Could also be the input bearing.
If it is the input bearing it might be worth sending the whole FD off for refurb - the input bearing needs special tools and a high torque rattle gun to dismantle / reassemble.
 


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