Zumo 390 - Trip Planner - Help!

GlynnJ

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I am new to Garmin devices which use Trip Planner and i am struggling to understand how it works and how to use it. i have a particular urgent need to get this right, as described below.

I am doing the Welsh National Rally on Saturday and I have created a number of routes in Basecamp to reflect the different possible route options (Paltinum, Gold, Silver etc). Each route is made up of 'hard' waypoints, not shaping points, because I need to stop at or near each of them.

When transferred to the Zumo and viewed in Trip Planner there is a list of waypoints. If I choose to start the route I then have to choose my next destination. Here is wher I come unstuck. For the purposes of this trip I need to visit Waypoint 1, followed by 2, 3... Does that mean I have to select Waypoint 1 from Trip Planner and then, when I reach Waypoint 1, select Waypoint 2? Or can I select Waypoint 15 at the start and be guided on the entire route passing through each (announced) waypoint in turn?

I have tried to investigate using a much short test route and I think the answer is that I must keep selecting each waypoint in turn from the Trip Planner. But this seems a bit crap!

Thanks, Glynn
 
does it not just take you through the waypoints in numerical order on your route, or are you swapping between waypoints on different routes, example start route gold and go to waypoint 1 on route gold, and then you may need to go to route platinum and waypoint 3. is that the scenario.
 
These particular routes are too far away and too long to simulate, so I cannot answer. But, on my test route it seems that if I choose to go to the end point right from the start them it appears to leave out the interim waypoints. So it looks like I answered my own question but I wanted to check that I was correct and hadn't goofed up the Basecamp bit...
 
Maybe it would help if I phrased it differently.

Let's say I want to go from Edinburgh to London but I want to visit aunty Betty in Leeds and uncle Sid in Leicester on the way. I creat waypoints (not shaping points or via points) in Basecamp and transfer routes. Then I fire up Trip Planner and I am faced with the choice of where to choose as my destination.

So, in the case, if I choose London, will I be taken there directly without visiting Betty or Sid?
 
Maybe it would help if I phrased it differently.

Let's say I want to go from Edinburgh to London but I want to visit aunty Betty in Leeds and uncle Sid in Leicester on the way. I creat waypoints (not shaping points or via points) in Basecamp and transfer routes. Then I fire up Trip Planner and I am faced with the choice of where to choose as my destination.

So, in the case, if I choose London, will I be taken there directly without visiting Betty or Sid?

that as far as i know is correct, i am sure some one will confirm.
 
that as far as i know is correct, i am sure some one will confirm.

Yes, that's right.

The fellow might of course go past Betty in Leeds and Sid in Leicester, if they are on the same route, Edinburgh to London but that would just be luck.
 
When transferred to the Zumo and viewed in Trip Planner there is a list of waypoints. If I choose to start the route I then have to choose my next destination. Here is wher I come unstuck. For the purposes of this trip I need to visit Waypoint 1, followed by 2, 3... Does that mean I have to select Waypoint 1 from Trip Planner and then, when I reach Waypoint 1, select Waypoint 2? Or can I select Waypoint 15 at the start and be guided on the entire route passing through each (announced) waypoint in turn?

I have tried to investigate using a much short test route and I think the answer is that I must keep selecting each waypoint in turn from the Trip Planner. But this seems a bit crap!

Thanks, Glynn

When you start the route, select waypoint 1 as your next destination. Once you've passed through waypoint 1 it will take you on to 2 then 3 etc. If you were to select waypoint 15 in the list, then the satnav will calculate a route direct to waypoint 15 (fastest or shortest depending on device settings), which will ignore points 1-14.
 
Tomcat is quite right :thumby:

One thing I noticed on my Nav V running a pre-set route that went from A to D via waypoints B and C, was that once I had passed through waypoint B, the magenta line of the route I had ridden between A and B vanished. Similarly, once I had ridden from waypoint B to C and passed through C, the magenta line of the route I had ridden vanished too.

This does not happen when I use unannounced shaping points for B and C, the full magenta line, A to D via B and C is always there.

This suggests to me that the Nav V sees the single pre-planned route: A to D, via waypoints B and C as one journey but then breaks it up into distinct chunks, A to B, B to C, C to D; dispensing with each as they are successfully completed. This probably makes sense and explains why the device lets you navigate independently straight to point B and then pick up the pre-planned route C to D.

Now that I have had the chance to work with BaseCamp, waypoints in routes and the Nav V all together, I am getting to like the careful use of waypoints better, using them for a distinct and clear purpose rather than just being lava when creating routes. For instance on a reasonably long cross country ride from Calais to St Vith on the Belgian / German border, I knew I wanted to have lunch in Chimay, so I created a route: A Calais to waypoint B at Chimay to C at St Vith. As the Nav V can display assorted estimates of time / distance to points, this came in handy when the train over was badly delayed. I could see that the device estimated my arrival time at waypoint B at Chimay at 15:30, not the 12:30 I had planned on; too late for lunch. I then asked the device to route me directly to B, rather than taking the twisties but then pick up the twisty route to C, St Vith. This is it did quite happily, correcting all the arrival times and distances accordingly.
 
I agree with Wapping (there's a first for everything) Waypoints CAREFULLY placed are very useful. I have just made a route for our trip to Wales at the end of the month. The end point, placed exactly where we are staying and the breakfast stop where we are meeting friends are both Waypoints. Everything else is a via point. The random use of waypoints, sometimes only roughly near the correct spot leads to problems. I want to get to our holiday house and I certainly don't want to miss a good breakfast so marking these as waypoints makes sense.

I also agree with the OP, this choose destination thing is crap! Most of the time I just want the thing to follow the entire route I planned. Why does it not do that and offer a "modify route" option for those few occasions when that is what is required.

John
 
Agree with all above, one thing to be aware of is if you miss the waypoint (say its not quite in the road) by not riding directly over it or close proximity to it, the zumo may not "release" it and will try navigating you back to it.
So as you approach the waypoint and pass it, make sure the Zumo starts calculating you to the next waypoint. if the waypoint wasn't "released" all directions and calculations cease and the GPS will try to navigate you back to the unreleased waypoint.

To overcome this you can use the Skip function (on the map screen bottom RHS touch 3 bars this brings up window of options the skip function is in there) not ideal faffing with this while riding but the only way to get the set to ignore the last point and navigate to the next.

One other observation Garmin Zumos always offers the first waypoint in your list (not the start) when activating a route and not the next waypoint towards the destination from where you are, as you may expect.
So when you open up your route in trip planner and activate it regardless of where you are on your route (normally your at the start right?) but say you are for what ever reason you are two thirds of the way down the route in this case say your at Uncle Sid's in Leicester, the Zumo will not offer the next waypoint London only the first Aunty Betty and will navigate you to her, if you start the route with that highlighted. You can either use the skip function until you notice that the navigation advice is taking you towards the destination or choose the correct waypoint (if you know which one is in the next one)

In this example its fairly simplistic and obvious but say you had 10 waypoint in your route and you weren't sure which waypoints you are between, in this case use the skip function until you notice that the navigation advice is taking you towards the destination. What you don't want to do is if your not sure is select the last, as you suggest the Zumo will take you there ignoring the interim ones.
Apologies for harking on about this but I ride with a bunch of mates and they all have issues with this when we are away.

You can change your waypoints to shaping points on the Zumo if you prefer shaping points or vice versa. By going into Apps > trip planner > choose unscheduled trip/route > touch three bars top LHS > edit destinations you will see the waypoints as flags and shaping points as buttons blue or yellow (depending on your Zumo) touch the flag or button and they change to your preference.
 
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It seems the newer model zumo's handle the routing a bit differently than the earlier models, or should i say you have a few more options. I only have the older 660 and 550 motorcycle navs, but if i am not mistaken from what i have read here on this thread they would still be able to do all the above but in a different way, correct me if i am wrong, if i plan a route using waypoints a,b,c, and d and i start close to (a) but not directly at the spot it will ask do you want to navigate to the start of the route and then pick the route up from there, if i want to miss (a) and go directly to (b) i would choose the (b) waypoint in my favourites these would have been saved automaticaly at route transfer, and navigate to that point using the preferences that would be pre set in my nav, once arrived at waypoint (b) after a quick coffee or a chat with aunty Betty i would then select my route again, and again it would ask me do you want to navigate to the start or whatever it asks i would tap no, and i would be back on my pre planned route, this seems to be the same as the newer models but a different way of going about it or is there some difference apart from the menu that i am missing, just asking as i am bound to have to help someone use one in the near future.
 
I agree with Wapping (there's a first for everything) Waypoints CAREFULLY placed are very useful. I have just made a route for our trip to Wales at the end of the month. The end point, placed exactly where we are staying and the breakfast stop where we are meeting friends are both Waypoints. Everything else is a via point. The random use of waypoints, sometimes only roughly near the correct spot leads to problems. I want to get to our holiday house and I certainly don't want to miss a good breakfast so marking these as waypoints makes sense.

I also agree with the OP, this choose destination thing is crap! Most of the time I just want the thing to follow the entire route I planned. Why does it not do that and offer a "modify route" option for those few occasions when that is what is required.

John

John, the waypoints are fine if you know in advance that you will definitely be stopping at points B and C on your journey between A and D. Very often I don't know where on a pre-planned route I'll be stopping for tea, coffee or lunch, so having intermediate waypoints set into my routes serves no useful function most of the time, though I won't call the ability to include them - should I chose to - crap.

You planned your route to Wales with an end point EXACTLY on your destination. That's great. But sometimes bods do not know where they intend to end their day. These are the famous "I wing it" merchants who just want the device to take them to say 'Somehere near Le Mans' and they'll start looking for a hotel. They have no specific holiday house to get to, nor did they have a specific great breakfast stop pre-planned, as they didn't know it was there - by chance - on their route. Should they chance on it during the day, they could always mark it for future reference as a favourite, building it in as a waypoint for the future, just as you have done with your breakfast cafe.

The chose destinations function is useful and far from crap, if used properly. Take for instance the bod who has planned his route for day one with an end point at the south edge of Le Mans, with a start point for day two from the same spot. But, then, at the end of day one he turns off at the north of Le Mans as he sees signs for a nice hotel. In other words, he turns off and cuts short his first day's route.

The next morning our intrepid 'wing it' fellow needs to ride his second day's route. But he's a bit stuck as it starts away on the other side of Le Mans. An ability to ask the device to take him to is is far from crap. In fact, to our 'wing it' hero, it's a godsend. It mirrors Leedude's 'Please drive to highlighted route' or 'plot route to start point' that happens on older devices. You can still 'Drive to highlighted route' and / or 'plot route navigate to start point' on the new devices, too.

Let's now stay with our bikermate 'wing it' character who, after last night's 15 pints of Old Head Banger he enjoyed with the likeminded souls he met is not firing on both of his two cylinders, so he gets up late. He now realises that he needs to get on if he is to meet you at the fine lunching establishment you sent him. The ability to chose that point from the second day's route will now be incredibly useful. He can ask his device to take him straight to it from his hotel; a hotel that he didn't know he'd be starting from, let's not forget. The only challenge our hungover hero will then face is to remember that the device will plot his route to the fine dining lunch rendezvous point (where you'll soon be sat twiddling your thumbs, waiting for him) according to his preferences. He's a 'wing it' man, so he's turned off motorways - you maybe told him to as that's your preference - and he's ticked windy roads, two facts he's forgotten which, given his pained state, he's unlikely to remember. He'll now fume that the device is shite, as it refuses to take home to point X other than via every goat track and mini-roundabout, when all he wants to do is wobble to the nearest motorway, ride down it and get to lunch. This of course will be Garmin's fault, its crap systems and the stupidity of giving bikers more than one choice.

John, it strikes me that you use your older devices in a set way, plotting routes from A to B very accurately, often using some maps over others to find exact spots or roads as Garmin's are inaccurate or lacking in enough fine detail; pinpointing your wife's car park from another post, for instance. That's great, I try to take care when plotting my routes, too. Similarly, you add in exact 'we will stop at point X en-route from A to B for a great breakfast'. That's great, you have it nailed down into a pre-planned - extremely accurate - route, which you'll want to travel down. I do sometimes but more often I just wing it en-route, stopping wherever and whenever I fancy. Should you for some unknown reason deviate, you have auto-recalculate turned on, so the device will always bring you back onto your route, picking up the waypoint X and any other shaping points you added in when creating your very accurate and precise route. I have my device set to altert me if I go off route (I do not have sound turned on) with an option of yes or no as to whether I want the route to recalculate. Most often I chose no, preferring to zoom the screen in and out and using the device as a conventional map to chose how to get back to my carefully planned route.

Based on this assumption, you start your day at exactly point A and end it at exactly point B, having ridden via exactly point X, all down your carefully planned route. Logically, you will then start your second day at exactly point B, so you'll never need to navigate to it. You therefore view the ability to chose it or any other intermediate points as crap; crap with an exclamation mark to emphasise how cheap it is, too. Many other users don't, indeed quite the reverse, they find it very useful.... Assuming that is they know how to use them properly.

It seems the newer model zumo's handle the routing a bit differently than the earlier models, or should i say you have a few more options. I only have the older 660 and 550 motorcycle navs, but if i am not mistaken from what i have read here on this thread they would still be able to do all the above but in a different way, correct me if i am wrong, if i plan a route using waypoints a,b,c, and d and i start close to (a) but not directly at the spot it will ask do you want to navigate to the start of the route and then pick the route up from there, if i want to miss (a) and go directly to (b) i would choose the (b) waypoint in my favourites these would have been saved automaticaly at route transfer, and navigate to that point using the preferences that would be pre set in my nav, once arrived at waypoint (b) after a quick coffee or a chat with aunty Betty i would then select my route again, and again it would ask me do you want to navigate to the start or whatever it asks i would tap no, and i would be back on my pre planned route, this seems to be the same as the newer models but a different way of going about it or is there some difference apart from the menu that i am missing, just asking as i am bound to have to help someone use one in the near future.


Leedude03, you are spot on, they have given more options. The options were there before, you just had to go at it a different way. Nothing much has changed really.

I don't have any sound running on my Nav V, so I have no idea what voice instructions or questions the device gives. But, other than that you are quite right in your assessment as to how the latest devices work.
 
John, the waypoints are fine if you know in advance that you will definitely be stopping at points B and C on your journey between A and D. Very often I don't know where on a pre-planned route I'll be stopping for tea, coffee or lunch, so having intermediate waypoints serves no useful function most of the time.

You planned your route to Wales with an end point EXACTLY on your destination. That's great. But sometimes bods do not know where they intend to end their day. These are the famous "I wing it" merchants who just want the device to take them to say 'Somehere near Le Mans' and they'll start looking for a hotel. They have no specific holiday house to get to, nor did they have a specific great breakfast stop pre-planned, as they didn't know it was there - by chance - on their route. Should they chance on it during the day, they could always mark it for future reference as a favourite, building it in as a waypoint for the future, just as you have done with your breakfast cafe.

The chose destinations is useful and far from crap, if used properly. Take for instance the bod who has planned his route for day one with an end point at the south edge of Le Mans, with a start point for day two from the same spot. But, then, at the end of day one he turns off at the north of Le Mans as he sees signs for a nice hotel. In other words, he turns off and cuts short his first day's route.

The next morning our intrepid 'wing it' fellow needs to ride his second day's route. But he's a bit stuck as it starts away on the other side of Le Mans. An ability to ask the device to take him to is is far from crap. In fact, to our 'wing it' hero, it's a godsend. It it mirrors Leedude's 'Please drive to highlighted route' that happens on older devices. You can still 'Drive to highlighted route' on the new devices, too. That ability is still open to say Nav V owners, like me.

John, it strikes me that you use your older devices in a set way, plotting routes from A to B very accurately, often using some maps over others to find exact spots or roads as Garmin's are inaccurate or lacking in enough fine detail; pinpointing your wife's car park from another post, for instance. Similarly, you add in exact 'we will stop at point X en-route from A to B for a great breakfast'. That's great, you have it nailed down into a pre-planned - extremely accurate - route, which you'll want to travel down. Should you for some unknown reason deviate, you have auto-recalculate turned on, so the device will always bring you back onto your route, picking up the waypoint X and any other shaping points you added in when creating your very accurate and precise route.

Based on this assumption, you start your day at exactly point A and end it at exactly point B, having ridden via exactly point X, all down your carefully planned route. Logically, you will then start your second day at exactly point B, so you'll never need to navigate to it. You therefore view the ability to chose it or any other intermediate points as crap. Many other users don't, indeed quite the reverse, they find it very useful.... Assuming that is they know how to use them properly


.


Oh dear your reply is full of assumptions. Firstly I don't regard my less than 1 year old 390 as an "older device" Granted the car device is 2 years old! I chose the 390 as the best device for my needs and I keep both it's maps and software up to date. Secondly I was not saying people should use waypoints along every route. My point was that the function to be able to tell the device that you really want to go somewhere is very useful. I want to meet my friends at that particular breakfast stop because we will then ride together to our destination and besides it's their turn to pay. If I marked the cafe as a via point and then altered my route there is a risk I would miss it. But you missed the point if you think I will have to follow a pre planned route there exactly. That would only happen if I used multiple waypoints along the route. In fact I just have enough via pints to keep me away from town centres etc. As they are via points I don't have to go to each one but I do want to end up at the right place for a free breakfast.

If I am planning to go somewhere rather than just going for a ride I will use a waypoint for that destination. Yes I take great care in placing that point and am guilty of using maps other than Garmin's to help me do this. This is the point I was trying to make-waypoints are really useful but they must be placed with care. I may plot a route using several via points but that does not mean I feel obliged to follow that route. For me the great advantage of having the place I want to end up at as a waypoint is that I can explore byways, disobey instructions, go where I please but eventually I can be routed to my destination. I am new to the area I now live in so planning, for instance, to visit a National Trust property gives me a focus for the day (keeps my wife happy too!) and also allows us to explore the region taking as many turns off the direct route as the fancy takes us. We have done this several times now and it works brilliantly, we get a wonderfully unstructured ride and we can, at any point, decide that we now want to go directly to our destination, all I have to do is stop disobeying instructions.

If I go out on my own I rarely bother with a route, I leave the device on and if I end up somewhere new and it's time to head home I can press the home icon and get directions to somewhere I know, I then turn the route off unless it is suggesting roads I haven't used before.

Ultimately we all use our SatNavs to suit ourselves. I really don't think that trying to score points by implying someone has it wrong is helpful. If any of my posts have given the impression that I am doing this then I apologise. We learn both by doing and from the experience of others. I hope we can continue to share our experiences and therefore benefit others.

John
 
Stating
this choose destination thing is crap!
might just be seen as not very helpful, or indeed very accurate, either.

Thank you though for better explaining how you go about plotting (or not) your routes and your use of your devices. Everything else you say now makes much more sense in the context of this and other threads.

PS Whilst it helps everyone if waypoints (or shaping points) are placed reasonably carefully - not on an opposing carriageway, or on the wrong exit of a roundabout or on some obscure side road, for instance - they do not always need to be to the nearest foot, as your post states.

For example, if I definitely want to go via Chimay between Calais and St Vith but do not want to go to a specific location in Chimay, it won't matter too much where in the town I plonk the waypoint or I could make it an unannounced shaping point. I'd probably chose the town centre, as offered up by the maps in Garmin, but I might chose the entry point of the road I'll be coming in on or the exit point on the road out; the choice is mine.

On the other hand, if I wanted to go to the car park of the Casino restaurant in Chimay - and go nowhere else even remotely close, as I'd promised to meet people there, say - I'd probably be best advised to pinpoint that spot exactly.... And take some care in finding out where exactly that point is if I was in anyway unsure.
 
Quote Wapping (Leedude03, you are spot on, they have given more options. The options were there before, you just had to go at it a different way. Nothing much has changed really.
I don't have any sound running on my Nav V, so I have no idea what voice instructions or questions the device gives. But, other than that you are quite right in your assessment as to how the latest devices work.)
Thanks for that i thought as much so no need to alter the way i do things.

From what i have read here it seems the newer devices remove parts of the route once done, does this include the removal of way points you have traveled to or do they keep them stored as favourites or similar.
 
Personally think most people on here are intelligent enough to work out that a statement such as "this choose destination thing is crap" is an expression of a personal opinion. As such it is neither accurate or inaccurate, it's an opinion. One I stick to.

And nowhere did I say waypoints had to be within a few feet. They need to be accurate enough not to cause problems that is all. My breakfast waypoint is the cafe that already exists on the Garmin database. As long as I don't mark it on an adjacent road for instance that is all I need.

In answer to your point about towns along the way, I would normally place a via point on a ring road if that is possible as I don't want to get involved in town centre traffic. I do use the town centre marker if my plan is to just turn up and find somewhere to stay.

John
 
Thanks to everyone who has replied to my OP. All comments very helpful and, having completed the WNR, I now understand my 390 a lot better.

I just wish there was a way to have some level of control over the types of road it uses to navigate the "fastest" route. Some extremely narrow, steep and twisty country roads in Wales have a 60mph limit so I guess this is the reason the device uses them when calculating an ad-hoc route. Some of the lanes I was on yesterday had an effective limit of 20mph or less so the "fastest" route certainly wasn't the quickest!

I understand that I am asking too much and sat nav really is a wonderful thing.
 
Glynj this is always going to be a problem when using ad-hoc routes as you are limited to the preferences on the nav, and also the algorithms it uses to calculate these routes, you can make ad-hoc routing to be more suitable to your needs as now the newer units are coming with more options, but it is still limited, and even then does not always work. You can not beat a well planned and sorted route created in a mapping prog of choice, and i do realise this is not always practical or even possible, so until someone makes the perfect do it all to suit everyone sat nav we are stuck with what we have.
 
Jersey gs Quote (One other observation Garmin Zumos always offers the first waypoint in your list (not the start) when activating a route and not the next waypoint towards the destination from where you are, as you may expect.)
Are you sure this is correct or are you refering to new Zumo's, as i am sure this does not apply to the 660 or 550.
 


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