Anyone using a Power Commander?

Are adjustments for altitude really going to be necessary?

I just want to get the Air/Fuel ratio sorted.
 
crotchrocket said:
Are adjustments for altitude really going to be necessary?

I just want to get the Air/Fuel ratio sorted.
Click to expand...

I am on shakey ground with this but ...

The AF ratio will need to adjust for atmos pressure to be at its best so a device that fits to the bike and sets the AF ratio at a specified atmospheric pressure, say sea level, and remains set at that will not adjust for say the high alps. Or indeed differing pressures due to weather but this is a digression. Temperature also plays a role but again not sure what or how ( it was a long time ago when i went to school) I do know that cold and damp air gives a bigger bang and presumably requires less fuel at the same time.

A re map that incorporates the use of the bikes oxygen sensors etc etc and can adjust accordingly and so giving the desired optimum fueling all the time has to be a better option IMO


Of course cleverer people with differing opinions may well be along soon to dismiss my thoughts as bollocks.

I would call Hill top and ask them ??
 
Well my bike came fitted with PCV and it goes like fook. All the Physics behind it doesn't interest me 😂😂😂
 
redrick said:
The AF ratio will need to adjust for atmos pressure to be at its best so a device that fits to the bike and sets the AF ratio at a specified atmospheric pressure, say sea level, and remains set at that will not adjust for say the high alps. Or indeed differing pressures due to weather but this is a digression.
Click to expand...

That is true but the Motronic's have adaptive fuelling, by monitoring the products of combustion fuelling can be corrected for altitude, however it cant correct for the fundamental fact there is less oxygen, it can only attempt to maintain an AFR, so power will still be lost but in a euro compliant way.

redrick said:
Temperature also plays a role but again not sure what or how ( it was a long time ago when i went to school) I do know that cold and damp air gives a bigger bang and presumably requires less fuel at the same time.
Click to expand...

Temperature is inversely proportional to density, a cylinder can only ingest a certain volume, cold air is is more dense therefore contains more oxygen for same volume. Under Wide Open Throttle more oxygen = more power

redrick said:
A re map that incorporates the use of the bikes oxygen sensors etc etc and can adjust accordingly and so giving the desired optimum fueling all the time has to be a better option
Click to expand...

Indeed, looping out the O2 sensor removes the ability of the ECU to adapt to fuelling changes, which includes going onto the continent and using shite fuel, best left in IMHO.
 
A PCV doesn't affect ignition timing and overlays your choice of fuel map. But there's no adaption, that's why the O2 sensors have to be disconnected.
It's old tech now and unless you enjoy playing with the maps and have your own dyno, why would you spend the same money as a Hilltop remap or a pair of AF XiED units?
Only potential benefit is if you can pick a PCV up on eBay second hand.
And if you feel that you need that dyno print out, Geoff supplies you with one anyway when you get a remap.
Now, I have a good pair of Amal Concentric carbs for sale, if you want to go all the way.
Fuel injection? Only for wusses! :D
 
blueranger said:
That is true but the Motronic's have adaptive fuelling, by monitoring the products of combustion fuelling can be corrected for altitude, however it cant correct for the fundamental fact there is less oxygen, it can only attempt to maintain an AFR, so power will still be lost but in a euro compliant way.



Temperature is inversely proportional to density, a cylinder can only ingest a certain volume, cold air is is more dense therefore contains more oxygen for same volume. Under Wide Open Throttle more oxygen = more power



Indeed, looping out the O2 sensor removes the ability of the ECU to adapt to fuelling changes, which includes going onto the continent and using shite fuel, best left in IMHO.
Click to expand...

Bloody hello was i right !
 
Blimey, its all a bit complex isnt it! I had a Cobra PowrPro fuel controller on my Harley. It spliced in to the wiring loom to the O2 sensors and the fuel injectors. Monitored the A/F ratio 80 times a second and provided the correct fuelling at all times. Nice and easy!!
 
The Nutty GSER said:
Before I go to Hilltop again, I'm wondering if a power commander would be a better option this time round?

I don't have any first hand experience with a PCV, so is it just plug and play, or will it still need to go on a dyno?

Any advice/ info would be helpful (obviously not from Engineer :p).
Click to expand...

A better option this time around for what?
 
Decisions decisions...

I’m in same boat ... after having my old GSA Hilltopped, and seeing all the reviews on the new LC, I was just about to book my bike in ...... but then after speaking to Steve at Motrac about Dynojeting my Bonnie, the conversation moved onto flashing vs Power Commander on my GSA .... now he seems to know his onions, and he doesn’t just do a bolt on service ... he offers a fully bespoke set up for the individual bike... now it ain’t cheap .... about £600 ... but I’m tempted this time.

Will see how good my Bonnie is once he has fiddled with it :thumb2

Has anyone gone down this route ?

Link to his website http://www.motrac-racing.com/aboutus.html
 
I’m intrigued by the comments about Power Commanders. If I’m reading correctly people are saying that the Lambda sensors need to be disconnected. My understanding is that the PC uses all the sensors and applies a correction factor to change the fueling as per a pre-loaded map, therefore in theory this should be the same as having the ECU flashed.

I noticed that someone commented on changes in altitude etc. The lambda sensor will adjust the fuel air ratio to account for less/more oxygen, and other sensors, such as knock sensors will adjust the ignition timing to prevent knock. Ultimately with less oxygen there will be less power and even a Hilltop ecu flash will not correct this.

I have spoken with BSD regarding having a remap, however they are unable to on my ‘17 GSA. Interestingly I asked the question about the reported increase in power and torque from the Hilltop ecu flash, as I am sceptical about the massive increases and BSD confirmed what I already know, that being to get large power and torque increases extensive head work and exhaust changes would need to be undertaken, and most likely upgraded injectors and so on.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yer average fuel injection system has an air density/pressure sensor of some description fitted in it somewhere, generally in the air box (MAF sensor?). The ECU uses that to keep the fuel/air mixture broadly correct, no matter the altitude. The higher you go, available oxygen reduces as the air becomes less dense, so less fuel is injected to be burnt, and less power in turn. The O2 sensor provides the fine tuning of the mixture, measuring the oxygen content of the exhaust - except under heavy load/wide open throttle, when it's ignored.

I had a Tiger 955 with a dodgy air pressure sensor in the ECU. That was not fun at 2400 metres above sea level in the Alps.

And... unless things have changed with the EU IV bikes, the GS doesn't have knock sensors.
 
blueranger said:
Temperature is inversely proportional to density, a cylinder can only ingest a certain volume, cold air is is more dense therefore contains more oxygen for same volume. Under Wide Open Throttle more oxygen = more power
Click to expand...

Not strictly accurate - More oxygen = 'the ability to burn more fuel'

You need a suitable map to actually - shovel that fuel in.
 
ChazzyB said:
I had a Tiger 955 with a dodgy air pressure sensor in the ECU. That was not fun at 2400 metres above sea level in the Alps.
Click to expand...

That reminds of my first trip to the Alps many years ago on my CX500 - I thought the bike seemed down on power and was developing a fault until I realised that it was the altitude that was affecting the engine. :)
 
fred_jb said:
That reminds of my first trip to the Alps many years ago on my CX500 - I thought the bike seemed down on power and was developing a fault until I realised that it was the altitude that was affecting the engine. :)
Click to expand...

Oh, this wan't just down on power, it was misfiring really, really badly, until you span it up over 6K RPM, when it cleared. Ideal for the Alps. The bike was fine until about over 500m altitude, when you'd start to notice a bit of a misfire creeping in. It got worse, the higher I went. At 2400m, it was so bad it was almost unrideable. I picked up a replacement Sagem ECU out of a Triumph Sprint for not a lot of money (£30). Fitted it and flashed it with the right 'tune' for a Tiger and, job done. Fixed. Tested over the highest (allegedly) surfaced road in England at 609m.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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