IAM Masters

i have a First pass ,so if in the opinion the Masters is easier ....theres no point ?

I really can't see the Masters being below the F1rst award, its a longer more enduring test, and I'm told taken in a different area from where you live...This is why Im swaying towards the Mentor package,to se what the required std is and I'm hope of learning a few tips form the mentor towards passing ...ive heard right foot down instead of left will see me getting points docked !! jeez !
 
The problem I have found with the IAM observer system is they expect me to ride much faster than I want to - I have been told I MUST overtake if I can, but what if I am happy toddling along behind someone breaking trail for me on an unfamiliar road - apparently that means I am not the calibre required. CRAP - I COULD overtake if I wanted to - but I don't. It makes my fuel go further, my tyres and brakes last longer and I don't have ot lean the bike over so far. Provided I leave a healthy, safe breaking distance between me and vehicle in front, why the insistence on overtaking? The world goes fast enough as it is, why the compulsory rush?

Someone please explain the logic for me.

Sounds like you'd be better off in a car. You'd be warm and dry then too...

:blast
 
Could this be a marketing ploy? How else will IAM pay for its new headquarters in Welwyn Garden City. How else will the wages of the high ups at headquarters be paid? Of course the voluntary work of the observers and mentors must help to keep the running costs down!

...ive heard right foot down instead of left will see me getting points docked !! jeez !

All part of the reasons I retired as an IAM Examiner after 24 years ... I quite simply didn't like the way it was heading :blast

They're building an empire, a business, on the backs of volunteers doing a bloody good job, in their own time, and for nothing, and along the way they're kicking the fun out of motorcycling ... but then I am a cantankerous old git :rob

:beerjug:

PS ... Any foot down first is OK DC provided it was for a reason, part of the planning, and we're not doing a Michael Flatley wannabe :thumb

'It's Not Rocket Science'
 
The problem I have found with the IAM observer system is they expect me to ride much faster than I want to - I have been told I MUST overtake if I can, but what if I am happy toddling along behind someone breaking trail for me on an unfamiliar road - apparently that means I am not the calibre required. CRAP - I COULD overtake if I wanted to - but I don't. It makes my fuel go further, my tyres and brakes last longer and I don't have ot lean the bike over so far. Provided I leave a healthy, safe breaking distance between me and vehicle in front, why the insistence on overtaking? The world goes fast enough as it is, why the compulsory rush?

Someone please explain the logic for me.

The requirement is for the rider (or driver) to make safe progress within the posted speed limits and where safe to do so travel at that limit. If there are slower moving vehicles preventing you from doing this you are required where it is safe to do so to overtake them, but again within the posted limit. This in itself is a skill and is probably one of the most difficult things to master which I'm finding out. The IAM and indeed ROSPA set the criteria for what they deem to be the standard expected to pass their test. If you don't want to ride at that pace that's up to you, but it's their standard, not yours. That said IMO any extra training bikers take which make them safer can only be a good thing and there are plenty of private accredited advanced riders that will provide bespoke training to improve your riding without the advanced test being the end goal.
 
All part of the reasons I retired as an IAM Examiner after 24 years ... I quite simply didn't like the way it was heading :blast

They're building an empire, a business, on the backs of volunteers doing a bloody good job, in their own time, and for nothing, and along the way they're kicking the fun out of motorcycling ... but then I am a cantankerous old git :rob

:beerjug:

PS ... Any foot down first is OK DC provided it was for a reason, part of the planning, and we're not doing a Michael Flatley wannabe :thumb

'It's Not Rocket Science'
Micky, I have long thought that the annual membership fee should be waived for the bike observers.
 
The requirement is for the rider (or driver) to make safe progress within the posted speed limits and where safe to do so travel at that limit. If there are slower moving vehicles preventing you from doing this you are required where it is safe to do so to overtake them, but again within the posted limit. This in itself is a skill and is probably one of the most difficult things to master which I'm finding out. The IAM and indeed ROSPA set the criteria for what they deem to be the standard expected to pass their test. If you don't want to ride at that pace that's up to you, but it's their standard, not yours. That said IMO any extra training bikers take which make them safer can only be a good thing and there are plenty of private accredited advanced riders that will provide bespoke training to improve your riding without the advanced test being the end goal.


I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.
 
Smug
In one of your 1st post you state that "our" examiner is off the opinion that the F1rst is higher than the Masters how would he know he doesn't "do" the tests for the Masters!
You also state that everyone in the group who have done there Masters done it on familiar roads if your referring to HBAM group your wrong the area / roads used have been chosen to challenge even the best
I did mine in Sussex / Kent


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If you had come to the club night on the Masters you would have heard him say it as well. In his mind criterior which he would award a one against would have to be ridden in the best way possible or it would be marked as a second. He attends IAM examiner meetings where these points are discussed in great detail and many of the examiners are of the same opinion that a F1RST rates higher than a Masters or a Masters with distinction simply based on their own requirements of 70%+ for a pass and 80%+ for a distinction.

Chris I forgot that you took your Masters test out of our area. I apologise.

I know that recent riders from HBAM started their Masters test ride at Baldock which is in our area.
 
I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.
Why ever did you bother to contact any training organisation?
 
But it's probably better to look at it this way
When going for your Green badge you are trying to obtain a pass! And providing your ride is of a high standard your awarded and quite rightly so a F1rst
However with the Masters it's yours to loose! By which I mean you take the test having "already" passed but marks are taken away for various reason
And we shouldn't forget the marking is very different between the two
I do agree though there does seam to be a watering down of the test standard


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I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.

They're not dictating anything to you, but if you want to pass THEIR test then you have to comply with the speed limits. No major organisation can condone breaking the law.

I seem to remember there's a section in Roadcraft on red mist and rider's attitude which can affect the rider's .... safety.....

As I understand it, the Masters is a test to a very high standard of very precise driving. I'd take it as a challenge, but I'm not sure I want to put that much time and effort into something which is not that relevant in the real world.
 
I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.

Well the answer to that is simple, don't take an advanced riding or driving course, it obviously isn't for you. No one is insisting that you take this type of course.
 
They're not dictating anything to you, but if you want to pass THEIR test then you have to comply with the speed limits. No major organisation can condone breaking the law.

I seem to remember there's a section in Roadcraft on red mist and rider's attitude which can affect the rider's .... safety.....

As I understand it, the Masters is a test to a very high standard of very precise driving. I'd take it as a challenge, but I'm not sure I want to put that much time and effort into something which is not that relevant in the real world.

Not picking on this one response alone, I just don't know how to do that yellow box thing where you can quoute several replies...

I did go to the IAM test - and that was the result. they WERE TELLING ME I HAD TO OVERTAKE WHEN I DIDN'T WANT TO. The van in front was making decent progress for the road. I was quite happy at that speed and dropped back so I had better vision due to the no windows in the back - I could see inside and outside according to road position and bends. The I AM chappie told me I should have made more effort to overtake - and burn fuel in hard acceleration, ripping my tyres to shreds (hard acceleration is where your tyres get worn the most).

I agree with the observation apsects, the positioning aspects, the recognising dangers aspects. I DO NOT agree with the make as much progress as possible aspect - what is wrong with a steady, good average pace, over a long journey it makes very little difference. the economy of riding difference is vast though - witness the fact I have never got less than 13,000 miles out of a set of Tourances on my 1150Adv - people on here have questioned the validity of that mileage, because they burn them out in 7000 or 8000 miles. So my riding is at least 40% more economical and just as safe.

Now argue with that logic - i reckon I am safer as a result, which is the overall objective, no?
 
Not picking on this one response alone, I just don't know how to do that yellow box thing where you can quoute several replies...

I did go to the IAM test - and that was the result. they WERE TELLING ME I HAD TO OVERTAKE WHEN I DIDN'T WANT TO. The van in front was making decent progress for the road. I was quite happy at that speed and dropped back so I had better vision due to the no windows in the back - I could see inside and outside according to road position and bends. The I AM chappie told me I should have made more effort to overtake - and burn fuel in hard acceleration, ripping my tyres to shreds (hard acceleration is where your tyres get worn the most).

I agree with the observation apsects, the positioning aspects, the recognising dangers aspects. I DO NOT agree with the make as much progress as possible aspect - what is wrong with a steady, good average pace, over a long journey it makes very little difference. the economy of riding difference is vast though - witness the fact I have never got less than 13,000 miles out of a set of Tourances on my 1150Adv - people on here have questioned the validity of that mileage, because they burn them out in 7000 or 8000 miles. So my riding is at least 40% more economical and just as safe.

Now argue with that logic - i reckon I am safer as a result, which is the overall objective, no?

another [Quote Originally Posted by King Rat] I am not having any fluoro jacketed wanker telling when and who I will overtake - they can fuck right off! I will ride how I WANT TO RIDE and no trumped up, self appointed organisation is going to dictate to me. I use Roadcraft techniques - AT MY PACE. If I want to get an extra 2000 miles out of my tyres and an extra 50 miles out of the tank who the hell are they to tell me I shouldn't? What a load of garbage.[Unquote]

Well there you go!
You both want to drive at your own pace.
You can.
But neither of you will pass the IAM (or Rospa) test if you drive like that - on the test day....

If you want to be safe and enjoy your riding - that's why I have a bike - then some training is a must.
Experience is useful but the training will save you from having lots of experiences that you don't want.

..... and if you want to complete a long journey at a steady pace, then the motorways are the way to go, statistically the safest roads as well!
 
Not picking on this one response alone, I just don't know how to do that yellow box thing where you can quoute several replies...

I did go to the IAM test - and that was the result. they WERE TELLING ME I HAD TO OVERTAKE WHEN I DIDN'T WANT TO. The van in front was making decent progress for the road. I was quite happy at that speed and dropped back so I had better vision due to the no windows in the back - I could see inside and outside according to road position and bends. The I AM chappie told me I should have made more effort to overtake - and burn fuel in hard acceleration, ripping my tyres to shreds (hard acceleration is where your tyres get worn the most).

I agree with the observation apsects, the positioning aspects, the recognising dangers aspects. I DO NOT agree with the make as much progress as possible aspect - what is wrong with a steady, good average pace, over a long journey it makes very little difference. the economy of riding difference is vast though - witness the fact I have never got less than 13,000 miles out of a set of Tourances on my 1150Adv - people on here have questioned the validity of that mileage, because they burn them out in 7000 or 8000 miles. So my riding is at least 40% more economical and just as safe.

Now argue with that logic - i reckon I am safer as a result, which is the overall objective, no?
I can understand your desire for economic motorcycling. A much smaller and more economical bike than an 1150 would be better suited to those ends.
Argue with the logic of that.
 
Not picking on this one response alone, I just don't know how to do that yellow box thing where you can quoute several replies...

I did go to the IAM test - and that was the result. they WERE TELLING ME I HAD TO OVERTAKE WHEN I DIDN'T WANT TO. The van in front was making decent progress for the road. I was quite happy at that speed and dropped back so I had better vision due to the no windows in the back - I could see inside and outside according to road position and bends. The I AM chappie told me I should have made more effort to overtake - and burn fuel in hard acceleration, ripping my tyres to shreds (hard acceleration is where your tyres get worn the most).

I agree with the observation apsects, the positioning aspects, the recognising dangers aspects. I DO NOT agree with the make as much progress as possible aspect - what is wrong with a steady, good average pace, over a long journey it makes very little difference. the economy of riding difference is vast though - witness the fact I have never got less than 13,000 miles out of a set of Tourances on my 1150Adv - people on here have questioned the validity of that mileage, because they burn them out in 7000 or 8000 miles. So my riding is at least 40% more economical and just as safe.

Now argue with that logic - i reckon I am safer as a result, which is the overall objective, no?

The thing is Ratty, all you need to do is learn the skills, demonstrate them on the test, pass it and then you can ride in any smug, safe, economical, dull and tedious manner that you fancy.

There are those who like to enjoy a progressive ride and ...... then there is you apparently
 
I'm lucky enough to have a master's with distinction in two groups, and membership of another two also. I did my rospa in middle earth or Nottinghamshire as some call it. Gold for car, silver for bike. Because "quote" no one is perfect enough to get a gold on their first attempt !

I laughed, a lot.

Been and done it and proved it to myself. On a good day, I'm an average rider and can live with that. Just be honest about your own skills and abilities, try and learn and improve every time you go out.

For the record, civilians are individuals who are not members of either the ministry or of the armed forces. The a day a Police Officer can win a VC will be the day they cease to be a civilian.
 
I have a Masters distinction, for which I just took the test without any Mentor. I think it is hard to find someone who can teach at that level.

My thoughts- It is the most difficult test to take between Rospa and the iAM. Very dificult to get a distinction- I would think a First is very similar to Rospa Gold.

However i really dont see why some of the people on here are Anti- advanced riding ( or is it the institutions involved? ). The road is a very dangerous place and even if someone picks up a tiny piece of advice that they can use, this might be the bit that saves your life, no doubt about it. I would say to anyone- take advanced training- there will be some of it that you can use. This is the imporatnt thing, not any certificate, but the skills you need to survive on the road.

I think that you can actually take the Masters without any advanced training or qualifications, but really there is no point in this, you wouldnt have a hope in hell. There is a lot to it.

Example- the Police Examiner will take you on pretty technical roads- I actually got warned what they would be like- as though he expected me to crash! Never quite had a motorbike exam like it- in one section I could hear his pegs going down each left to right- we were hustling along no messing.
 
Well done on getting a distinction thumperbob2002 especially without mentoring.
 


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