Fuel Strip to Float Conversion...Dummy Run

Aye Bendy, I am using a float from a 2012 TC, didn't know the range just took the whole assembly out of the 2012 including the pump dropped it in to my tank after I took the strip out and it worked. To be honest the whole kit on eBay isn't to bad a price when you consider how much BMW want for yet another shite strip. You might get a float from someone like moto works or other breakers.

Hope you find a cure, I'm mighty glad to get that fecking yellow light out.

JimmyMac

Thanks. I might ask someone at Motorworks or Sherlocks to waft a test meter over it.

But, it's not only that annoying triangle.

The fuel height is used to control fuel pump power. If the gauge shows zero but is otherwise "working" the pump will be running at 100% all the time leading to early wearing out. If the fuel gauge is effectively broken (as happens if you simply disconnect the fuel strip), the pump runs at part load all the time leading to the engine starved of fuel with 7 litres trapped in the RHS of the tank.

It's an unholy complicated lash up when a simple cross pipe from left to right under the tank would do the same job.
 
Thanks. I might ask someone at Motorworks or Sherlocks to waft a test meter over it.

But, it's not only that annoying triangle.

The fuel height is used to control fuel pump power. If the gauge shows zero but is otherwise "working" the pump will be running at 100% all the time leading to early wearing out. If the fuel gauge is effectively broken (as happens if you simply disconnect the fuel strip), the pump runs at part load all the time leading to the engine starved of fuel with 7 litres trapped in the RHS of the tank.

It's an unholy complicated lash up when a simple cross pipe from left to right under the tank would do the same job.

I never realised that, to be honest I have never even thought about how the fuel gets from the right side to the left, without sounding like an idiot, how does it do it?

JimmyMac
 
I dont want to should like a smart arse - all this came from people doing tests and reporting back on AdvRider.com.

Tank RHS will trap about 7 litres of fuel. Excess fuel not used by the injectors is returned to the fuel tank. In the old days this could be quite a significant flow. BMW fitted a suction pump (venturi) in the tank RHS that used the excess flea to lift fuel to the tank LHS where the actual fuel pump sits..

The 1200 has a pump controller to minimise the excess fuel flow so if the pump continues at normal output it keeps the injectors happy, but has not got enough return flow to empty the tank. You will usually run dry with 7 litres trapped on the tank RHS, though a brand new pump will probably be fine for a few thousand miles.

At about 25 litres used (on the GSA) the pump id operated at full power. The pump controller has three wires in and two wires out. The signal to speed up the pump comes from the indicated fuel level. If the tank sensor shows empty (its usual way to fail) the pump will run continuously at full power and will wear out faster as a result. It will also upset emissions rules (EU and USA) as the tank contents will be heated slightly by the extra power input. A trivial heat but it's there.

Remove the fuel strip and the pump will run only at low power so you risk running dry with fuel in the tank. I have separate fuel sender and gauge at about 27 litres used the gauge shows zero and if I'm "making progress", the engine will run dry. But stop, let it idle for a while and the level will magically rise as fuel gets pumped across the tank.

I "could" drop my spare pump into the tank RHS, or fit a cross link pipe under the tank but clearly the best option is a working fuel gauge and perhaps even a useful trip computer.
 
Bendy. Since I'm new to the 1200 (mine's a 2011) I'm interested in this. You're right, this really does sound like a complex lash-up. But...

Has anyone fitted a link pipe to a 1200?
AND
Why would a warm pump affect the emissions?


Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 
The issue with fitting a cross linking hose is we are on our own. Components exist for bespoke fuel systems but it would need very careful thought. It might not be possible as a retrofit but would have been cheap as chips at the design stage.
With the fuel strip disconnected, fuel pump will run continuously at normal power.
With a broken fuel strip showing empty tank the pump will run continuously at full power.
Any fuel heating effect (if there is any at all) is negligible and really shows how emissions regulators add cost and complications without adding real world benefits.
If such things really mattered we would have carbon canisters on the fuel vent system (as they do in some areas).
 
By the way, Japanese bikes use a small thermistor to single low fuel. While it's immersed the fuel keeps it cool so there is no electrical conduction. When the level drops below the device it warms up, conducts and directly switch on a warning light. Its completely separate from the fuel gauge and simple as pie. Another option would be a sliding float switch. Less simple but cheap enough.
 
Some time ago I mentioned that I was building a float convertor for the GS(A)'s, it's ready now!
Today I made a started with my website but it's still under construction although it will be ready in the next two weeks.

So, with ordering it, manuals etc. Then the site also be available in the English language. You now can take a look at my website at www.proebeemer.nl .
Klik on "Produkten" then you'll see the Float Control. In the past weekt Float Control is heavy tested on several bikes.
After the website is finnished I'll start with some embedded software for placing a float in the tank of a R1200RT just like the Polish PDF. Because you can't click a original float on the pumpunit in thCe tank of a R1200RT. For that purpose I use a (car) float of the brand "Bugiad". German brand and also same quality as VDO float's.

With my Float Control for GS(A) you should use floater type number for the GSA: 16148554065 and for the GS: 16148554064

Bert Proeme
Netherlands

Any one fitted one of these?

Phil
 
Can anyone advise whether a fuel pump assembly (complete with level sensor float) from a 2007 GSA will work in a 2010 GSA (currently using fuel level strip) by just dropping in and connecting the replacement assembly as JimmyMac has done with a 2012 unit (post #100).
 
The float sensor will not work on a bike fitted with a fuel strip sensor. To make a fuel strip bike work with a float, you need the adaptor device as discussed earlier.
 
The float sensor will not work on a bike fitted with a fuel strip sensor. To make a fuel strip bike work with a float, you need the adaptor device as discussed earlier.

Thanks for the reply. I was aware that it required an adapter to work but wanted to know if there was any reason a float from a 2007 GSA wouldn't fit in a 2010 GSA.
 
Is it possible for someone in the know to provide a list of which parts/donor bikes work with which years/models ( using the interface module described in this post)?
Would really help us all to solve this common BMW failing.
Thanks
 
Is it possible for someone in the know to provide a list of which parts/donor bikes work with which years/models ( using the interface module described in this post)?
Would really help us all to solve this common BMW failing.
Thanks

Good idea. I've just purchased an adapter and am now on the lookout for a float from a 2010-2012 GSA for my 2010 GSA that has a faulty sensor strip. I believe the part number I'm looking for to be 16148554065/16147724852.
 
There seems to be 3 converters on the go, the Henk ones through the Dutch dealer, the Polish one and Proebeemer one. Has anyone with the Proebeemer used it for a while and found it ok?
 
Decided to have another go at getting the Proebeemer converter to work. With it fitted (with float part no. 16148554065) I'm still getting the yellow triangle and 'Fuel!' warning message on the dash. The GS-911 is reporting no fault codes on the ZFE-High controller (output below).
The Proebeemer converter manual makes this reference to the GS911 but I can't work out what is meant by 'assign foil sensor' or how you might do this with the GS911.

"10. Be sure that the fuel system gives no errors in e.g. the diagnosis with GS911 and that you
assign “foil sensor” with the GS911."



GS911 output:

ZFE-High : -
Controller Type : Vehicle Electronics
Controller Name : ZFE-High
Controller : 6300
Part No. : 07720228
Hardware Index : 07
Coding Index : 09
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 2004-04-15
MCV : 0.6.0
FSV : 3.0.1
OSV : 3.3.0
Manufacturer : Loewe / Lear
Factory I-Level : K024-09-08-560
Actual I-Level : K024-14-08-500
Configuration :
: Speed sensor manufacturer is Bosch
: Speed sensor type is DF11
: ABS fitted
: ESA fitted
: ESA has hall sensor
: Heated grips
: Outside temperature sensor
: Brake light switch status over CAN
: Rear bulb replacement
: Film type fuel sensor
: Manual low beam off switch
: Brake light type is LED
: Rear light type is LED
: Storage of temperature indication when engine hot
Fault Codes : 0
 
I am at exactly the same point.
From a conversation with Holland and some language confusion. It sounds like i need to remove the foil strip as part of the process, but the instructions make no mention of it. Or it’s to dry the strip do a calibration then attach the float. I can’t quite work it out.
Either way I have the same problem to tackle this weekend!
 
This is what I received from Bert -
"
Yes, you should have a well functioning foil sensor and it must be very dry before you can use it for calibration.

Connect the (good) foil sensor to the harnass connector, then perform a calibration......after that, contact off, reconnect the foil sensor and connect the float control again.
Ofcourse you should have installed the right floater attached to the pumpbody. The foil sensor always must be removed when placing the floater on the pumpbody.

For testing on the stand the rear wheel should turn because the ZFE needs pulses from the wheel sensor.

After about 30 seconds you should see the updated value on the display."

And this -
"Please, disconnect the float control and do a fresh calibration with a new (or a well dryed) foil sensor, connected outside the tank.
Then it will work!"
 
I have one of these units and had a few issues getting it to work, Bert was very helpful and between us this is what we came up with, this is a mixture of snippets from emails and my hazy memory. The bread board just allowed me to connect and disconnect things a little easier:

1:connected fuel sensor connector to electronic breadboard to aid fault finding
2:connected up the diode as you suggested, the diode did not light up.
######### Diode connection #######
#########You don't have to do this part but it helped me understand what was wrong and when it was fixed.#####
Connect a led (anode) on the red wire via a resistor of 1K to ground, black wires at the 4 pole connector.
When the motor runs the LED will light for about 12 sec and then shut off for about 30 seconds, and so on repeatedly.............
During the led is ON, data is read en send to the display gauge.
So, if you cannot see the LED "switching" something is wrong on your bike

2:left diode in place and connected old fuel strip to bread board – still the diode did not light up.
3:Checked for faults on GS911 – 'implausible value from fuel sense' (I think) – cleared the fault. Still nothing on the diode
4:Ran fuel strip calibration from GS911 – at this point the diode lit up.
5:following calibration, with the ignition on and engine running I saw the diode on for 30s then off for 65s. I switched the engine off and the diode behavior was the same.
6:Connected float control unit, it shows half a tank, this seems correct as I have done 190 miles from filling up and normally get 350 to 400 miles from a tank.

I then messed about with some different resistor values to see if i could make an emulator, doing this cased the diode to stop flashing and the GS 911 to display 'implausible value from fuel sense', once again clearing this and calibrating cured this. I used my faulty fuel strip to calibrate with but I think they can fail in different ways so maybe you will not be so lucky. It did take a few calibration attempts to make it pass.

Now mine is working I don't fiddle with it any more so don't ask me to try anything to see what happens!
 
The fuel strip could remain in the tank but if connected to the bike harness would surely affect the emulator and spoil any signals it sends.

I have a Polish emulator to try but really could do with instructions. It has a link block on one corner. I have no idea which pin pair it should be connecting across. There's also no sign of an earth lead I guess it uses the heater earth.
 


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