Ardennes, Vosges, Black Forest, Stelvio, Italian Lakes

Get a copy of the book "Motorcycle Journeys through the Alps and Beyond" this has about 70 trips in the Alps, have a look at the trips in the areas you will be passing through and see if any catch your eye and would be worth stopping over for :thumb2

The passes covered in the book routes number in excess of 300 - www.cyclingcols.com shows about 1,000 Alpine passes....

...so asking people if there are any roads to ride or where to stop for an extra day could result in hundreds of suggestions. All of the routes in the book would take you about a months solid riding, even narrowing it down to routes in the book that you will be going near would probably amount you needing an extra couple of weeks.

Just pick a spot or two for an extra days riding around, you cannot go too far wrong as there are not really any bad roads in the Alps, just some are better than others - but they are all vastly superior to the roads of the UK.

Good stuff. Thanks for the advice on the book and for the link :thumb
 
Morning All,

I seem to have come to a conclusion in terms of the itinerary for my trip to Italy. I wanted to share it with you and see whether I got the whole thing right, especially when it comes to the Alps Passes.

The third day we'll be leaving Kloten (north of Zurich, where I'll pay a friend a visit) in direction of the Susten Pass, which we'll take from Wassen. Once done the Susten we'll do the Grimsel and the Furka Pass, in this order. We'll be spending the night of the fourth day in Chur and the day after we'll do the Timmelsjoch and sleep at the bottom of the Stelvio Pass. From there, the morning after we'll do the Stelvio and head south to the Lake of Como through the Splugen Pass.

What do you guys think?
 
Last day requires a choice of Julier pass or Albula pass... Personally I'd favour the Julier but see what other people think.

(Actually, I'd get ambitious with the mileage and do both, along with the Fluellapass - but that would be an extremely long day)
 
Last day requires a choice of Julier pass or Albula pass... Personally I'd favour the Julier but see what other people think.

(Actually, I'd get ambitious with the mileage and do both, along with the Fluellapass - but that would be an extremely long day)

Hey Simon,

Thanks for your comment.

We are aiming to get to Lake of Como no later than mid afternoon. Is not the Stelvio plus the Splugen enough? In this very thread I was advised to do the Splugen Pass from north to south, which is what I'll be doing. Someone suggested the Fluella Pass being really good but hard to access. Is that true? And nobody ever mentioned the choice about the Albula or Julier. What is it?

This is the route I was thinking to do
Stelvio to Como thru Splugen

Do you suggest to do either the Albulla or Julier instead?

Fluella is way too long, unfortunately.
 
The third day we'll be leaving Kloten (north of Zurich, where I'll pay a friend a visit) in direction of the Susten Pass, which we'll take from Wassen. Once done the Susten we'll do the Grimsel and the Furka Pass, in this order.

If you mean you will go over the Susten pass you will not be able to do Grimsel then Furka in that order without going back over the Susten the other way again.

Julier Vs Albula is a tough choice, the Julier is faster and more flowing with better "sporting" bends and more traffic, the Albula is more scenic and rugged with less traffic, I am sure you know your own preferences - I like both for their respective good points.

The Fluella is sort of half way between the two being more rugged than the Julier and less bumpy than the Albula - many rate it as one of the best passes in the Alps, this year we rode all of them and I think I enjoyed both the Albula and Fluella more this time.

Whatever route you take will be excellent. :thumb2
 
If you mean you will go over the Susten pass you will not be able to do Grimsel then Furka in that order without going back over the Susten the other way again.

Julier Vs Albula is a tough choice, the Julier is faster and more flowing with better "sporting" bends and more traffic, the Albula is more scenic and rugged with less traffic, I am sure you know your own preferences - I like both for their respective good points.

The Fluella is sort of half way between the two being more rugged than the Julier and less bumpy than the Albula - many rate it as one of the best passes in the Alps, this year we rode all of them and I think I enjoyed both the Albula and Fluella more this time.

Whatever route you take will be excellent. :thumb2

Hi Rasher,

Why not? Please see below:
Kloten > Wassen > Susten > Grimsel > Furka > Chur
Following the route above it doesn't seem I have to go back to do Susten, Grimsel and Furka in this order... :confused:

Regarding Julier vs Albula, I'll be doing that route on Monday 4 September so I'm not expecting to find a lot of traffic (?!?). In terms of type of route, since we are two up plus luggage I'd probably give my preference to the views rather than "sporting" bends.

Is the Fluella really that good and definitely better than Julier and Albula? If that's the case I might just sacrifice a bit of time in Como and go for that instead.
 
Hi Rasher,

Why not? Please see below:
Kloten > Wassen > Susten > Grimsel > Furka > Chur
Following the route above it doesn't seem I have to go back to do Susten, Grimsel and Furka in this order... :confused:

Regarding Julier vs Albula, I'll be doing that route on Monday 4 September so I'm not expecting to find a lot of traffic (?!?). In terms of type of route, since we are two up plus luggage I'd probably give my preference to the views rather than "sporting" bends.

Is the Fluella really that good and definitely better than Julier and Albula? If that's the case I might just sacrifice a bit of time in Como and go for that instead.


Did the Julier last week at appx 11 am it was 4.5 deg C on the top. We didnt do the Stelvio as it was 0 and snowing. Just done the Neufen today 34 at bottom 16 deg C at top. Weatherpro or similar app is your guide. Dont use BBC weather app in Switzerland its way off, not sure where it sources its data but its between 8 and 10 deg C out
 
Hi Rasher,

Why not? Please see below:
Kloten > Wassen > Susten > Grimsel > Furka > Chur
Following the route above it doesn't seem I have to go back to do Susten, Grimsel and Furka in this order... :confused:

Regarding Julier vs Albula, I'll be doing that route on Monday 4 September so I'm not expecting to find a lot of traffic (?!?). In terms of type of route, since we are two up plus luggage I'd probably give my preference to the views rather than "sporting" bends.

Is the Fluella really that good and definitely better than Julier and Albula? If that's the case I might just sacrifice a bit of time in Como and go for that instead.


Did the Julier last week at appx 11 am it was 4.5 deg C on the top. We didnt do the Stelvio as it was 0 and snowing. Just done the Neufen today 34 at bottom 16 deg C at top. Weatherpro or similar app is your guide. Dont use BBC weather app in Switzerland its way off, not sure where it sources its data but its between 8 and 10 deg C out
 
Did the Julier last week at appx 11 am it was 4.5 deg C on the top. We didnt do the Stelvio as it was 0 and snowing. Just done the Neufen today 34 at bottom 16 deg C at top. Weatherpro or similar app is your guide. Dont use BBC weather app in Switzerland its way off, not sure where it sources its data but its between 8 and 10 deg C out

Holy s**t :eek:

I'm not expecting September being warmer than July/August. That might result in a big change in terms of itinerary.

Thanks for the tip on the app. Will download it now.
 
Stelvio, 14 September 2012

Hot Legs at the bottom, Cool and the Gang at the top

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Had snow on the top of Stelvio in Early August, also had it boiling up there, same with Nufenen, snowing and blowing a gale one year and toastie on another trip, had the Grimsel with fog so thick tickover in 1st seemed dangerously fast on one trip, ridden it another 4-5 times in baking sunshine.

No Forecast is accurate in my experience, I have even gathered evidence by noting the forecast for each place I stayed this year using a couple of sites, accuracy was about 50% if going on a simple did it, or did it not rain basis - and that was the forecast the night before so don't even bother looking a few days before you leave - probably best to assume it may or may not rain and may or may not be cold each day, or just guess - that way you will at least match the accuracy of Alpine Weather Forecasts.
 
Had snow on the top of Stelvio in Early August, also had it boiling up there, same with Nufenen, snowing and blowing a gale one year and toastie on another trip, had the Grimsel with fog so thick tickover in 1st seemed dangerously fast on one trip, ridden it another 4-5 times in baking sunshine.

No Forecast is accurate in my experience, I have even gathered evidence by noting the forecast for each place I stayed this year using a couple of sites, accuracy was about 50% if going on a simple did it, or did it not rain basis - and that was the forecast the night before so don't even bother looking a few days before you leave - probably best to assume it may or may not rain and may or may not be cold each day, or just guess - that way you will at least match the accuracy of Alpine Weather Forecasts.

As long as the roads are clean I'll be just fine #unstoppable

Rasher, could you please respond to my post #47?
 
Rasher, could you please respond to my post #47?

It's time you set out to ride the passes for yourself. There is no definitive right or wrong way to do things, not least as everyone often starts from different places, at different times, on different days, in different weathers, has different expectations, has different time constraints for the day and / or the whole holiday, different ultimate destinations in mind, different views on what they can / want to achieve and on and on and on.

Plot your route out as you'd like to do it, it is your holiday after all. Or do, as many claim to do, just 'Wing it', #unstoppable.

Report back when you've done it.
 
It's time you set out to ride the passes for yourself. There is no definitive right or wrong way to do things, not least as everyone often starts from different places, at different times, on different days, in different weathers, has different expectations, has different time constraints for the day and / or the whole holiday, different ultimate destinations in mind, different views on what they can / want to achieve and on and on and on.

Plot your route out as you'd like to do it, it is your holiday after all. Or do, as many claim to do, just 'Wing it'. Report back when you've done it.

Is there anything wrong with what I do? I was having a conversation with one of the members of this forum and every time you seems to feel the need to have your say. What is the reason behind it?

This is a forum, people exchange opinion and I don't really understand why you always have to write things against me. You were not part of my conversation with Rasher and I don't understand why you felt the need to send this post.
 
This is a forum, people exchange opinion....You were not part of my conversation with Rasher and I don't understand why you felt the need to send this post.

A reminder for you, just in case you you've forgotten, that you have benefitted from several bits of help:

Thanks Wapping! :thumb2

Hi Wapping,

Thanks for your reply.

I was actually reading your thread about the Curves magazine and all the additional information and photos you posted. Impressive!



It's not a criticism. It's just a gentle push (an opinion exchange, to paraphrase your words) towards hopefully getting going for yourself. Your all but private conversation with Rasher is being conducted on a public forum, people can comment or not on it as much as they like.

PS If you don't want any other comments or observations, you can put forward just £1 a month towards site subscription. You'll then be able to Private Message Rasher and any other site subscribers to conduct as much of a private conversation on as many aspects of your holiday(s) and life in general as you like. It's great value, I promise.
 
Sorry but it does sound like criticism to me. All the members of the forum are able to have very long conversations on basically anything they want. Why can I not do this?

As I said, a forum is a place where people exchange opinions, which is exactly what I've been doing and nobody - apart from you - seems to have any issue with this. Everybody has been kind and helpful.

If the problem is just related to the fact I'm not paying (and will not) £ 1 a month for the subscription than say it clearly and at least I'll know why you are behaving like this. If that's not the case, please let me talk to people without criticising anything I say. Thanks.

NB: and the only reason why I'm not paying the subscription is because I'm leaving the country in 3 months time and it'd be a waste of money to do so.
 
As long as the roads are clean I'll be just fine #unstoppable

Rasher, could you please respond to my post #47?

Yes, because I am stupid :blast

I somehow assumed you where coming to the Susten from the "Other End", the Susten is a riders delight (Well the side you go down will be, the way up from the East is a bit dull) as is the Grimsel, if you have time take the one way road at the top of the Grimsel down to the Lake, a good lunch spot and the road gives great views, but it will cost you about 1.5 hours.

The Furka is not such a great riders road, but is very scenic, and you can stop at the Glacier and go inside the ice for a few quid.
 
Yes, because I am stupid :blast

I somehow assumed you where coming to the Susten from the "Other End", the Susten is a riders delight (Well the side you go down will be, the way up from the East is a bit dull) as is the Grimsel, if you have time take the one way road at the top of the Grimsel down to the Lake, a good lunch spot and the road gives great views, but it will cost you about 1.5 hours.

The Furka is not such a great riders road, but is very scenic, and you can stop at the Glacier and go inside the ice for a few quid.

Hi Rasher,

Thanks for clarifying. So the way I've planned is fine. Glad to hear that.

I'll see if I can stop by the lake. I'm not sure I'll have an extra 1.5 hours to spend though.

I've heard about the Furka, but everybody told me that is is very scenic. That's the reason why I want to do it. And it is also the only way for me to get to Chur, where I'll be spending the night before the Timmelsjoch. Good tip about the Glacier, I'll take it into account. Thanks.
 
This is the route I was thinking to do
Stelvio to Como thru Splugen

Do you suggest to do either the Albulla or Julier instead?

Fluella is way too long, unfortunately.

Er... your planned route goes over Fluellapass (Swiss road 28 to Davos).

It does however only do half of Stelvio, turning off over Umbrail just after the saddle of the col. It's perfectly good route and should get you there faster than doing the full-Stelvio-plus-Julier route (never mind the longer one I suggested using all three). For me, it'd be a shame to miss doing the full Stelvio if you haven't been before (especially as I actually prefer that southern half dropping down to Bormio to the tighter northern half from Prato). But it has to work for your timings.

ETA: If you're two up with luggage (just seen the earlier post) then Umbrail is tight and steep but Splugen is tighter, steeper, with hairpins in tunnels… not every pillion's cup of tea. For me, I'd say the open stretch of Julier just about has the edge in terms of scenery but they're all good.
 


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