Scary Incident - Glitch or Pilot Error?

Fred,

The BMW off road courses supply all the bikes themselves. You are free to fall off them - all at their expense - within reason of course! They reserve the right to stop you riding if you are behaving irresponsibly.

I had two two slow speed 'Offs'

One of the guys on my course put two of their bikes out of service (they carry 3 or 4 bikes in the back of their support vans for that purpose) - before his broken ankle put him oos.

Go for it - well worth the money :)
 
Something about this is bugging me a little Fred, I was pulling away from a set of lights recently and the clutch didnt seem right to me like it was sort of slipping then gripped resulting in a small wheelie, very strange.
 
blueranger said:
Something about this is bugging me a little Fred, I was pulling away from a set of lights recently and the clutch didnt seem right to me like it was sort of slipping then gripped resulting in a small wheelie, very strange.
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That does seem odd. I've noticed the bike seems a bit inconsistent about how much gas it needs when starting off from a junction - sometimes it's fine other times it starts to bog down and needs more gas, and I guess that could be down to inconsistent clutch engagement. I was definitely initially deliberately slipping the clutch in my incident, but as far as I can remember as the bike straightened up I had released the clutch and was trying to ride normally just before the bike took off. Maybe the clutch had continued to slip and then as I applied some throttle had suddenly gripped causing the same sort of small wheelie that you had.

One thing I started noticing while on my trip was that the engine had started sounding more rattly that usual, but the additional noise ceased when the clutch lever was pulled in, so maybe there is a problem with the clutch.

There is also the hill start, which is a whole different issue, but that requires a lot of gas to break the brake hold which can result in a very jerky start - so much so that I avoid using it now, or if I do, I cancel it with the brake lever before setting off.

Fred
 
fred_jb said:
That does seem odd. I've noticed the bike seems a bit inconsistent about how much gas it needs when starting off from a junction - sometimes it's fine other times it starts to bog down and needs more gas, and I guess that could be down to inconsistent clutch engagement.
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I've found that the clutch efficiency seems to vary, I struggle to get neutral sometimes usually down to engine temperature...doesnt the LC have a wet clutch now, cant help but wonder whether BMW havent quite got it right. Isnt there auto rev raise as well on releasing the clutch if the engine idles as it tries to maintain RPM? perhaps another quirk.
 
blueranger said:
I've found that the clutch efficiency seems to vary, I struggle to get neutral sometimes usually down to engine temperature...doesnt the LC have a wet clutch now, cant help but wonder whether BMW havent quite got it right. Isnt there auto rev raise as well on releasing the clutch if the engine idles as it tries to maintain RPM? perhaps another quirk.
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I've never read anything about an auto rev raise on these bikes, not to say that the GS doesn't have it, but in any case I'd rather it left the throttle to me thank you very much! I've only read about this as a feature on some Suzukis, designed to avoid stalling.

I have really bad problems with getting into neutral at times - usually worse when I've been riding for a while. Sometimes it just goes from 1st to 2nd and then 2nd to 1st endlessly, and no matter how gently I touch the shift lever it won't drop into neutral - drives me mad as it means I have to sit at junctions holding the clutch in for extended periods. If I'm parking the bike I will sometimes just give up and turn it off in gear. I'm going to try to get the dealer to look at this. I mentioned it at the first service but was told it would probably improve - it hasn't.
 
fred_jb said:
Sometimes it just goes from 1st to 2nd and then 2nd to 1st endlessly, and no matter how gently I touch the shift lever it won't drop into neutral - drives me mad as it means I have to sit at junctions holding the clutch in for extended periods. If I'm parking the bike I will sometimes just give up and turn it off in gear.
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Just hit the stop button at long traffic lights and use the fact that it is in gear as a handbrake. I always park it in gear, why wouldn't you?
 
fred_jb said:
.....

I have really bad problems with getting into neutral at times - usually worse when I've been riding for a while. Sometimes it just goes from 1st to 2nd and then 2nd to 1st endlessly, and no matter how gently I touch the shift lever it won't drop into neutral - drives me mad as it means I have to sit at junctions holding the clutch in for extended periods. ..................
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As good riding practice but more importantly as a technique for big twins like the BWM you should anticipate coming to a halt and snick it into neutral just before you come to a stop whilst the bike is still just rolling.

If you find yourself in gear at a standstill and want to find neutral load up the gears a touch for a moment, i.e. gently slip the clutch a touch or let it out gently and roll forward an inch, at the same time snick it into neutral.

If that's what you've always done but recently you're having problems then it's a matter of adjusting the clutch biting point or there's a fault.

Oh.....and.....you really don't want to 'always' be at a standstill with the engine running and clutch pulled in. That rattly noise you you mention that goes when the clutch pulled in; some of that noise is the thrust bearing when not under load. That's what they do, it's not a problem.
When you load it by pulling in the clutch any play in it is used up and it goes quiet. However, it's not really meant to be constantly under load, only momentarily when using the clutch to pull away and change gear. Obviously it ain't gonna go bang just 'cos you're lazy and hold the bike in gear but it will wear the bearing prematurely.

GS_or_bust said:
Just hit the stop button at long traffic lights and use the fact that it is in gear as a handbrake. I always park it in gear, why wouldn't you?
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Please tell me that's a joke? :eek:


Andres
 
GS_or_bust said:
Just hit the stop button at long traffic lights and use the fact that it is in gear as a handbrake. I always park it in gear, why wouldn't you?
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Well that is one workaround I suppose, but not one I'm happy with - the bike has a neutral and I should be able to select it.
 
Outtomunch said:
As good riding practice but more importantly as a technique for big twins like the BWM you should anticipate coming to a halt and snick it into neutral just before you come to a stop whilst the bike is still just rolling. Andres
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I may try that, but it goes against my instincts as I was taught to always be in a gear until stationary.

Outtomunch said:
If you find yourself in gear at a standstill and want to find neutral load up the gears a touch for a moment, i.e. gently slip the clutch a touch or let it out gently and roll forward an inch, at the same time snick it into neutral.

If that's what you've always done but recently you're having problems then it's a matter of adjusting the clutch biting point or there's a fault.
Andres
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Yes I've tried that technique, which I have used on other bikes, but it doesn't seem to help. The situation with other bikes has been slightly different in that generally there has been resistance at the lever and it won't select neutral or another gear without easing the clutch out a little to rotate the gears. With the GS it just slips from 1st to 2nd and vice versa with no resistance at all.

Outtomunch said:
Oh.....and.....you really don't want to 'always' be at a standstill with the engine running and clutch pulled in. That rattly noise you you mention that goes when the clutch pulled in; some of that noise is the thrust bearing when not under load. That's what they do, it's not a problem.
When you load it by pulling in the clutch any play in it is used up and it goes quiet. However, it's not really meant to be constantly under load, only momentarily when using the clutch to pull away and change gear. Obviously it ain't gonna go bang just 'cos you're lazy and hold the bike in gear but it will wear the bearing prematurely. Andres
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Yes I am well aware of that as someone who has had to carry out the horrible job of replacing a failing clutch release bearing on an old Mini in the dim and distant past when I couldn't afford to have someone else do it for me! :) What bothers me with my GS is that this noise has become much more obvious recently.

This issue is the main reason why I am not happy with being forced to hold the clutch in while making multiple attempts to find neutral, and of course the extra strain on my left hand is not welcome as it has a tendency to go numb with little provocation.
 
Outtomunch said:
Please tell me that's a joke? :eek:
Andres
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No joke, it simply involves moving the thumb about 10mm and seems an obvious shortcut rather than doing the 'Hendon shuffle'. I expect the next version of the bike will have start stop so when you put it in neutral the engine will stop anyway.
 
GS_or_bust said:
No joke, it simply involves moving the thumb about 10mm and seems an obvious shortcut rather than doing the 'Hendon shuffle'. I expect the next version of the bike will have start stop so when you put it in neutral the engine will stop anyway.
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I can see that development might be useful as I have Start/Stop in my car. Problem is the starter motor and battery would probably have to be uprated to heavier versions for this. Doing what you suggest with the current starter and battery could cause problems, especially if used frequently in heavy stop start traffic.

Actually the best system I have used for these situations is Honda's DCT which automatically changes down to first and operates the clutch when you come to a halt, or can be put into neutral at the push of a button. Then when starting from rest - you just use as much throttle as you want depending on how fast a getaway you want, and it gives a perfect launch every time!
 
fred_jb said:
I can see that development might be useful as I have Start/Stop in my car. Problem is the starter motor and battery would probably have to be uprated to heavier versions for this. Doing what you suggest with the current starter and battery could cause problems, especially if used frequently in heavy stop start traffic.
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Stop/start does not use the battery/starter. The engine is stopped with one piston at a few deg past TDC and then started by firing the ignition and away she goes. If the engine stands idle for too long a period the engine fires up before to much compression is lost.
 
Looks like there are lots of different methods for stop/start all seem to have their problems.
 
CPJS said:
Stop/start does not use the battery/starter. The engine is stopped with one piston at a few deg past TDC and then started by firing the ignition and away she goes. If the engine stands idle for too long a period the engine fires up before to much compression is lost.
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I had never heard of that method, and it certainly isn't used with my diesel car, and I'm pretty sure it isn't used with my wife's petrol car either as the starter can be heard to operate. I think the vast majority of these systems simply user the starter motor as normal, though apparently Mazda have a system whereby a controlled and optimised stop position of the engine is used to assist starting, though the starter motor is still used, but for a shorter period than normal.
 
That's how mine works too Fred. And the reason the car starts after a while is so the battery is maintained at a suitable charge for starting.
 
CPJS said:
Stop/start does not use the battery/starter. The engine is stopped with one piston at a few deg past TDC and then started by firing the ignition and away she goes. If the engine stands idle for too long a period the engine fires up before to much compression is lost.
Click to expand...

....and your qualifications are :D
 
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