IAM training/"making progress"

He did, and he accepted my explanation.
Great.
What I will say though is that having passed your advanced test I would recommend that you continue to go on group rides with the IAM group if they do that.
I learned a lot after I passed my test and I haven't stopped learning since.

I passed my test with Norfolk Advanced Motorcyclists and I'm starting to wonder if MikeO might have been my examiner back in 2003. :D
 
Would something like this be acceptable, Mike?

"I didn't feel like overtaking, because doing so in that particular spot would have put me into a position which makes me uncomfortable, - I felt I would be too close to the crest of the hill ahead of me, and on the wrong side of the road, which also was quite rutted - so if somebody came flying over the crest of the hill, I do not feel I would have had the time to comfortably get back onto my side of the road"

This would have been my explanation for the Fiesta issue.

Surely this is deeply subjective, though?

I can't play 'what if?' on a set of conditions I wasn't there to witness, I'm afraid.

Time and again I have come across candidates who ride in a timid or pedestrian manner. If there is an adequate margin of safety, and the candidate failed to act, then it's a mark down - if they continue to demonstrate the same attitude as a trend, then they fail. Don't forget, you might feel that there wasn't an adequate margin when there clearly was - this is an indication that you are not yet ready for test.

I've not been examining for a couple of years, due to various reasons, but when active, I am regularly QA'd by the Dep Chief Examiner, to ensure that my standards are the same as examiners across the country.
 
Great.
What I will say though is that having passed your advanced test I would recommend that you continue to go on group rides with the IAM group if they do that.
I learned a lot after I passed my test and I haven't stopped learning since.

I passed my test with Norfolk Advanced Motorcyclists and I'm starting to wonder if MikeO might have been my examiner back in 2003. :D

Did it start and end at Tesco in Dereham? :D
 
My 2p worth

Any overtake is subjective in as much as the view of the rider no matter how good his positioning will be different to the man assessing him who will be further back still from the target overtake.

I always look at/for my "escape route" and again one mans escape route will be different to another not to mention the overtaking performance of different bikes.

I like to be in plentyof space not surrounded by steel that could crush and kill me and i ride accordingly

At the end of it all overtake when YOU feel it is safe to do so not whn dictated to by a "test" or other rider
 
Advanced rider training is about increasing your skill level.
You have to know how to make progress and be able to do so confidently, so aspects of lessons and testing focuses upon that.....


You dont actually have to make progress when you are not on test or training. :beerjug:
 
Far too many peeps want a manual that says THIS is what you must do in THIS situation, the art of ADVANCED riding, is riding to what you see and what you cant see etc etc. There is no black and white involved, its all subjective depending on the particular circumstances at the time. If your not making progress when the circumstances say you can, then you deserve to be marked down and I don't hesitate to tell any of my associates if that's what they are doing. Most of my previous ones have passed their assessments with F1RSTs so I must be doing something right. If an associate cant grasp the "making safe progress" part then why the hell are they bothering ??
 
If an associate cant grasp the "making safe progress" part then why the hell are they bothering ??

Just being devil's advocate.

What if somebody comes to IAM because they want extra training a) for the sake of training (always good), and b) in order to be safer, in the first place?

That was certainly my motivation. Travelling safer and quicker was never an attraction for me. I'm prepared to arrive there five minutes later.

Having said that, I did pass, even if it was, now that I think about it, really borderline. So I must have done something right.
 
Roadcraft is worth a read and the Bikesafe course is valuable but if you have at least an ounce of common sense the rest is not necessary unless you like passing exams and want to feel superior.
 
Far too many peeps want a manual that says THIS is what you must do in THIS situation, the art of ADVANCED riding, is riding to what you see and what you cant see etc etc. There is no black and white involved, its all subjective depending on the particular circumstances at the time. If your not making progress when the circumstances say you can, then you deserve to be marked down and I don't hesitate to tell any of my associates if that's what they are doing. Most of my previous ones have passed their assessments with F1RSTs so I must be doing something right. If an associate cant grasp the "making safe progress" part then why the hell are they bothering ??

I would agree, but to be fair to OP, the fact that your associates are getting F1RSTs only shows you are teaching what the IAM wants/requires, not that it is 'right'.

from my own observing, I rarely see progress as an issue. Associates make poor progress due to their bad habits. As they gain experience and confidence, they usually make sufficient progress to achieve the standard without issue.
 
Just being devil's advocate.

What if somebody comes to IAM because they want extra training a) for the sake of training (always good), and b) in order to be safer, in the first place?

That was certainly my motivation. Travelling safer and quicker was never an attraction for me. I'm prepared to arrive there five minutes later.

Having said that, I did pass, even if it was, now that I think about it, really borderline. So I must have done something right.

I refer you to post 25.
 
OP, Isn't the point of the IAM test about proving that you can ride at a more aggressive pace safely?
After your test you can go back to riding as you normally would / prefer.

Constantly appraising your speed and position and that of other road users takes alot more concentration and mental ability than just trundling along cautiously (which I'm sure you appreciate), that's not advanced riding, thats just being cautious....which is fine, it's a good recipe for self preservation above all else. You can ride cautiously whilst still applying "advanced principles" but it just means your riding within the your existing comfort zone.

The advanced route is about extending your comfort zone without compromising safety...but in reality that is big grey blury line open to interpretation due to an individuals perception of risk and their ability. It may be your just too risk adverse or perhaps your not a "natural rider" and thats not meant as any disrespect meerly that we can all drive a car around a race track but few will ever be an F1 world champion as we simply aren't wired that way.

To discuss your anecdote about a car wandering into your path because the driver scratched his knee, an adhoc event which may cause a sudden deviation, yes that is possible but is it likely? Would the deviation be sufficient to take you out? Are there any tell tale signs leading up to it?

E.g. a sudden blowout could occur when you are along side, however to generate a big swerve their speed would probably need to be at motorway speeds or excessive, at 40mph in slow moving traffic when your filtering by, unlikely to cause a 2 feet deviation at the precise time your passing....

An impatient driver suddenly changing lanes, far more likely. As Micky and Giles have repeatdly highlighted "beware the gaps" which you can fully plan for.
 
[snip]

For me, most of the training was concentrated on "going for gaps" and "making more progress".

[snip]

If that is really was most of the training, then it does rather sound like there are issue with how you were advised by your observers.
 
I would agree, but to be fair to OP, the fact that your associates are getting F1RSTs only shows you are teaching what the IAM wants/requires, not that it is 'right'.

from my own observing, I rarely see progress as an issue. Associates make poor progress due to their bad habits. As they gain experience and confidence, they usually make sufficient progress to achieve the standard without issue.

Well of course im guiding them to the IAM standard, what else would I do ? Surely that's the point is it not ? Its all about making them thinking confident safe riders, not racetrack gods.
 
Just being devil's advocate.

What if somebody comes to IAM because they want extra training a) for the sake of training (always good), and b) in order to be safer, in the first place?

That was certainly my motivation. Travelling safer and quicker was never an attraction for me. I'm prepared to arrive there five minutes later.

Having said that, I did pass, even if it was, now that I think about it, really borderline. So I must have done something right.
You can have the training but not take the test if that is what you want.
 
If that is really was most of the training, then it does rather sound like there are issue with how you were advised by your observers.

To be clear, this was not because they thought these were the most important bits in the entire course, - this was because these were the areas where, they thought, I was lacking most.

For example, it was clear my observation was fine from the outset, I was looking far enough ahead etc., - but I was not acting on the information available. In my first rides, I did take in the information, and I could talk, quite confidently, about what was happening a long way ahead, but I just ignored the signs and carried on, as if on autopilot.

This was a habit they wanted to break.
 
Isn't the point of the IAM test about proving that you can ride at a more aggressive pace safely?

Not the word I would use to describe the advanced system of riding. I'm not even sure I would use "assertive" either. Let's say "confident, safe, smooth" instead ;)
 
Good morning,

Just wanted to share some thoughts on IAM training now that I've done it.

I'm currently sitting here, questioning the point of it all.

For me, most of the training was concentrated on "going for gaps" and "making more progress". From the outset, my observer had been telling me that I'm a safe, competent and legal rider, but I lack "sparkle". The examiner who did my test also commented on it - saying that I had displayed "just enough sparkle" to pass the test, and that my "making progress" bit was acceptable, but could have been a lot better.

Here's the thing, though. Before I started the IAM training, I was riding a lot more conservatively. I was working on the assumption that every single car driver is a maniac who is, at the same time, drunk, looking at his phone, and trying to come up with a clever way of killing me.

I used to filter a lot more slowly than IAM encourages me to do - because you never know whether a car driver will swerve into your path because he may suddenly feel the need to scratch his knee.
I used to go round corners on country lanes a lot more slowly - because, even if there is enough of a gap between you and the oncoming tractor, you never know when bits of crap are going to fly off the tractor, and into your visor.
I used to be a lot more cautious with overtakes - because you never know whether the driver whom you're about to pass in what IAM tells you is an acceptable gap, will suddenly get annoyed at you overtaking him and speed up, putting you into too much proximity with oncoming traffic.

All of these things have happened to me.

So I think that by "making progress", as the IAM people call it, I'm actually compromising safety.

And for what? For getting there two or three minutes earlier?

Discuss......

Thanks.

My thoughts too, the only Advanced Training I would do is with a current/retired Police Class1 rider who has his own training school

IAM is too variable and all Observers are not the same standard

ROSPA may be better
 
With regards to an overtake, you should be looking for a convenient gap with cooperation. Thats what I advise my associates to do.

Making progress is very subjective and the discussion afterwards is what makes it right or wrong at that time, if you lift your vision and use the information available to decide on what best progress is for that situation.

Take - use - give as the saying goes.
 


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