IAM training/"making progress"

I really think its all down to the observer as to whether you have a good experience or not with the IAM. I did my course a few years ago, kind of enjoyed it and defo learned a lot when riding with a retired copper. On all our group ride outs, I just told the organiser, that I was riding with Ken (the retired copper). For me, he had all the experience and whenever he told me something, it was always worthwhile.

Some of the jokers who were observers in the group - were seriously poor riders, and did not have any credibility at all. (I do except some will be good, but not all.)

Most of the observers I met, just wanted to be a bike cop or something. One observer fell off in a petrol station because he was trying his hardest to put a certain foot down first - he used to wobble all over the place trying to do the right thing.

As soon as I passed, the group asked me to be an observer, which I think is ridiculous? And I soon declined.

I say, make sure your with a copper and you will learn a lot.

Its the same with bike safe - we all turn up, hoping to be assessed by a quality police rider, then you get farmed off with a guy down the road, who only passed his IAM a few months earlier!

Cheers
 
One observer fell off in a petrol station because he was trying his hardest to put a certain foot down first - he used to wobble all over the place trying to do the right thing.

How true! I've had three observers (holiday and sickness intervened), and each of them had a different view on which foot goes down at a set of lights.

1) Right, because that way you don't have to shift feet to engage gear.
2) Left, because that way the right foot can be covering the rear brake.
3) Both, because that's the most stable.

In the end, I picked the one whose way felt the most comfortable to me.
 
A lot of different opinions here from a subject that is currently high on my list of priorities. So I'd like to self indulge a little and hopefully generate some focused discussion, if my description is good enough. I am not what could be called an advanced rider, in that I don't have any certificates to prove it. The following is based on my own memory only.

Here is an overtaking scenario from my recent assessment. For context, I was being assessed by a serving member of the vip/special escort group who has pretty much every police motorcycling certificate under the sun.

Circumstances:

Clear, sunny, 28c.

Straight road.
National speed limit.
Slight to Moderate descent.
Normal camber.
Road condition tarmac/good.
Open views with 1m hedgerow to sides.
Open view of 3 farm tracks at distance. 2 left, 1 right. 2m high hedgerow to within 10m of joining main road.
Signed crossroads at bottom of descent allowing continuance or turnoff into two singletrack B roads, directly opposite one another. Visibilty into both from top of descent was 50 metres, approx.
Immediately after crossroads, right hander of apparent 70 degrees masked by 2m high hedgerow.

Speed 40-45mph, encounter line of traffic ahead. From top of descent can see it is a tractor with a muck spreader on. Line of 12 cars behind. Speed of column fluctuating between 40 and 50mph.

From top of descent to crossroads is approximately 3/4 of a mile.

Do you overtake or not?

PS. Discount the fact that there was a police bike following, please. Just for clarity :D
 
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If there is enough room, I would start picking them off one by one if I can. Maybe two at a time if there is enough space. Hard to say, without being there.
 
A lot of different opinions here from a subject that is currently high on my list of priorities. So I'd like to self indulge a little and hopefully generate some focused discussion, if my description is good enough. I am not what could be called an advanced rider, in that I don't have any certificates to prove it. The following is based on my own memory only.

Here is an overtaking scenario from my recent assessment. For context, I was being assessed by a serving member of the vip/special escort group who has pretty much every police motorcycling certificate under the sun.

Circumstances:

Straight road.
National speed limit.
Slight to Moderate descent.
Normal camber.
Road condition tarmac/good.
Open views with 1m hedgerow to sides.
Open view of 3 farm tracks at distance. 2 left, 1 right. 2m high hedgerow to within 10m of joining main road.
Signed crossroads at bottom of descent allowing continuance or turnoff into two singletrack B roads, directly opposite one another. Visibilty into both from top of descent was 50 metres, approx.
Immediately after crossroads, right hander of apparent 70 degrees masked by 2m high hedgerow.

Speed 40-45mph, encounter line of traffic ahead. From top of descent can see it is a tractor with a muck spreader on. Line of 12 cars behind. Speed of column fluctuating between 40 and 50mph, gaps varying accordingly.

From top of descent to crossroads is approximately 3/4 of a mile.

Do you overtake or not?

Doesn't matter whether we think you SHOULD overtake or not, we weren't there only you can make the judgement on whether its safe or not. This is a classic situation where peeps want a yes or no answer and get pissed off that one is not forthcoming. Ride to the conditions !
 
Doesn't matter whether we think you SHOULD overtake or not, we weren't there only you can make the judgement on whether its safe or not. This is a classic situation where peeps want a yes or no answer and get pissed off that one is not forthcoming. Ride to the conditions !

I feel there is a yes/no answer to the conditions I posted mate. Not trying to push anyones buttons.

That aside, I completely agree with riding to the conditions, which is why I posted conditions :D
 
A lot of different opinions here from a subject that is currently high on my list of priorities. So I'd like to self indulge a little and hopefully generate some focused discussion, if my description is good enough. I am not what could be called an advanced rider, in that I don't have any certificates to prove it. The following is based on my own memory only.

Here is an overtaking scenario from my recent assessment. For context, I was being assessed by a serving member of the vip/special escort group who has pretty much every police motorcycling certificate under the sun.

Circumstances:

Clear, sunny, 28c.

Straight road.
National speed limit.
Slight to Moderate descent.
Normal camber.
Road condition tarmac/good.
Open views with 1m hedgerow to sides.
Open view of 3 farm tracks at distance. 2 left, 1 right. 2m high hedgerow to within 10m of joining main road.
Signed crossroads at bottom of descent allowing continuance or turnoff into two singletrack B roads, directly opposite one another. Visibilty into both from top of descent was 50 metres, approx.
Immediately after crossroads, right hander of apparent 70 degrees masked by 2m high hedgerow.

Speed 40-45mph, encounter line of traffic ahead. From top of descent can see it is a tractor with a muck spreader on. Line of 12 cars behind. Speed of column fluctuating between 40 and 50mph.

From top of descent to crossroads is approximately 3/4 of a mile.

Do you overtake or not?

PS. Discount the fact that there was a police bike following, please. Just for clarity :D

I would not. May I ask what you did and the police officer's view of your decision?
 
Yes but I wasn't there so I cant make a judgement, that's what im getting at. I might take a different view to you as to whether its safe or not but only at the time. Its not black or white.
 
I would not. May I ask what you did and the police officer's view of your decision?

Before I do that, I was hoping some IAM trained people would respond. Not to start a shitstorm, but because I personally think its important.

As I said, it's purely selfish as I'm considering doing some IAM training, but I felt having an actual scenario might also help others evaluate their own riding. I tried to describe it as best I could including all variables.
 
Yes but I wasn't there so I cant make a judgement, that's what im getting at. I might take a different view to you as to whether its safe or not but only at the time. Its not black or white.

I understand sir. But theres a couple of things in my description that make the decision for you, so I was told. The points I've listed are what I discussed with the observer.

Not looking to hang anyone out to dry, it was just for a bit of fun.

What details are missing for you to be able to make a judgement call as an advanced rider?
 
Before I do that, I was hoping some IAM trained people would respond. Not to start a shitstorm, but because I personally think its important.

As I said, it's purely selfish as I'm considering doing some IAM training, but I felt having an actual scenario might also help others evaluate their own riding. I tried to describe it as best I could including all variables.
Martin, I am an IAM national observer.
 
I understand sir. But theres a couple of things in my description that make the decision for you, so I was told. The points I've listed are what I discussed with the observer.

Not looking to hang anyone out to dry, it was just for a bit of fun.

What details are missing for you to be able to make a judgement call as an advanced rider?
SIMPLES ! I WASNT THERE ! that's the only detail missing.
 
Martin, I am an IAM national observer.

You were correct Edward. *edit...i should add, correct according to the police observer as my own opinion is irrelevant.

I decided not to overtake also. I thought I'd "failed" if I'm honest because my first instinct was to overtake car by car. However, I quickly revised that view. The gaps were opening and closing so quickly, that I'd never find a way out in an emergency. Also, it was very close to the speed limit and whilst I dont really care much about a speed limit unless it affects my/someone elses safety (here, it did not), there has to be some sort of risk limit. I didn't fancy barreling past a long line of cars and approaching a junction at 100mph just because the gaps happened to randomly close. I sat back and waited.

Turns out, I was right. He told me that in an absolute emergency, he would have forced his way into gaps, helped in no small part by blue lights/sirens, but that on a civilian bike of any kind, he would have waited.

The road/environmental conditions werent really the problem here, the issue was the traffic and its disposition, plus the approaching bend.
 
When i did a car equivalent of the bikesafe stuff back in the 80's we went out with the local feds and then Rospa at the end for an assessed drive.

Rospa's stance was, they do annual assesments, unlike IAM ... Pass once and never again !

I have to say, the standard of driving from the feds was an an eye opener, (Area traffic car)

the 100+ run down the Mway on a shout was interesting :)
 
Good morning,

Just wanted to share some thoughts on IAM training now that I've done it.

I'm currently sitting here, questioning the point of it all.

For me, most of the training was concentrated on "going for gaps" and "making more progress". From the outset, my observer had been telling me that I'm a safe, competent and legal rider, but I lack "sparkle". The examiner who did my test also commented on it - saying that I had displayed "just enough sparkle" to pass the test, and that my "making progress" bit was acceptable, but could have been a lot better.

Here's the thing, though. Before I started the IAM training, I was riding a lot more conservatively. I was working on the assumption that every single car driver is a maniac who is, at the same time, drunk, looking at his phone, and trying to come up with a clever way of killing me.

I used to filter a lot more slowly than IAM encourages me to do - because you never know whether a car driver will swerve into your path because he may suddenly feel the need to scratch his knee.
I used to go round corners on country lanes a lot more slowly - because, even if there is enough of a gap between you and the oncoming tractor, you never know when bits of crap are going to fly off the tractor, and into your visor.
I used to be a lot more cautious with overtakes - because you never know whether the driver whom you're about to pass in what IAM tells you is an acceptable gap, will suddenly get annoyed at you overtaking him and speed up, putting you into too much proximity with oncoming traffic.

All of these things have happened to me.

So I think that by "making progress", as the IAM people call it, I'm actually compromising safety.

And for what? For getting there two or three minutes earlier?

Discuss......

Thanks.

The point of it all? Well ...

1. You are thinking about your riding.
2. You understand that , at this level of riding, there are no " black and white" answers to these issues only shades of gray.
3. You are willing to consider advice from various sources and make up your own mind.

As an IAM observer myself I would agree with comments about variability of standards within the organisation but that is inevitable in any organisation which does not apply para military levels of discipline / expectations. Bear in mind that the guys doing it are doing so as a hobby and are effectively subsidising the organisation. The aim is not to produce Police 1 standards in associates but to improve their riding and especially their safety and that of other road users. Safety is the priority.
 
The point of it all? Well ...

1. You are thinking about your riding.
2. You understand that , at this level of riding, there are no " black and white" answers to these issues only shades of gray.
3. You are willing to consider advice from various sources and make up your own mind.

As an IAM observer myself I would agree with comments about variability of standards within the organisation but that is inevitable in any organisation which does not apply para military levels of discipline / expectations. Bear in mind that the guys doing it are doing so as a hobby and are effectively subsidising the organisation. The aim is not to produce Police 1 standards in associates but to improve their riding and especially their safety and that of other road users. Safety is the priority.

But I think he's saying that IAM were asking him to do things which he considered less safe, yet for very little benefit?
 
When i did a car equivalent of the bikesafe stuff back in the 80's we went out with the local feds and then Rospa at the end for an assessed drive.

Rospa's stance was, they do annual assesments, unlike IAM ... Pass once and never again !

I have to say, the standard of driving from the feds was an an eye opener, (Area traffic car)

the 100+ run down the Mway on a shout was interesting :)

Not if your a National Observer, its every five years, and if your a Local Observer assessor its every three years, so continual assessment to raise the standard and keep it up. Every rider has the choice about assessment, there is nothing stopping them doing it whenever they like.
 


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