Unusual battery draining.

Battery Discharge

Your multimeter is set to amps but 20milliamp max range so your reading is 0.18 amps thats 180 milliamp = too much.

When you put meter in series with the negative battery lead the meter goes crazy as the ecu is powering up and waking up and its only after about 5-15 seconds till the readings will stabilise, this is normal.

Check the positive battery lead is clean and making good contact tight with the battery, as dirty leads cause resistance that causes current drain.

I note you run the bike for 15mins, after using the starter you will discharge the battery significantly and a run of at least 5 - 10 miles would be needed to recharge what you have taken out. Running the bike at tickover
does not charge the battery sufficiently.

A sealed lead acid battery loses 1% of its charge daily whilst not being used, if a battery is left in a discharged or partially discharged state for too long, the plates inside "sulphate" then the battery no longer has its full capacity when recharged.

Check charging: voltmeter across battery should read 13.5 to 14.3 if charging correctly with engine running, ensure volts dont drop below 12.8 when lights on etc and above 1400 rpm. If not charging correctly
this shows alternator / regulator fault. You should see the voltage change as you rev the bike gently from tickover.


the drain of 0.18 is higher than i would expect, (0.056 should be about right without alarm or tracker powered up and if a satnav is fitted with a usb charging lead disconnect this as many are permanently live at 5v for charging phones etc) you disconnected the tracker, next i would check the alarm is switched off or disconnect it, also look for the bike wiring diagram and look for the charging circuit, the diodes in the regulator maybe failing, to isolate this you may need to disconnect the positive wiring to the alternator. ( if diode pack / regulator is inside the alternator) But do not start the engine with the alternator wire or wires removed, you will burn it out. Some bikes have either a relay or solid state device that switches charge to the battery, sometimes these can stick on draining the battery. (Diode / regulator pack) so if this is separate disconnect it and check battery drain WITHOUT ENGINE RUNNING ONLY) A process of elimination to find the current drain is required.



trickle charge the battery every 7-10 days overnight using a canbus friendly charger such as an optimate. then your battery should have at least 2 years lifespan.
starting a bike with a starter and running for 15 mins is no good for the battery. You are draining more out of the battery than what is being put back in. doing this regularly flattens the battery, not regularly charging it, ruins it. see https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/art...s/secret-workings-of-a-lead-acid-battery.html

0.18 x 12v = 2.16watts its too high ! Power = Amps x Volts so 0.18amps = 180ma so 0.18 x 12 = 2.16 watts


Batteries that are not fully charged, if discharged much below 11volts upsets all of your ecu settings as well, making bike even harder to start as all the settings are out, likewise fitting accessories like
heated clothing can demand too much from low capacity batteries, that inturn the volt drop upsets the ecu settings resulting in poor running etc. ( info given to educate others)

regards Steve
 
Hi Steve,

Now I am completely confused :-(. I thought that putting the multimeter on the miliamp range (be it 200 or 20), the reading would always be in miliamps. Because when I put in the 10A range, nothing comes up...
So, I thought the reading was 0.18 mA, not 0.18 A, thanks for clarifying. I will definitely need to go to the garage again.

Thanks,
JB
 
internaught said:
Your multimeter is set to amps but 20milliamp max range so your reading is 0.18 amps thats 180 milliamp = too much.

When you put meter in series with the negative battery lead the meter goes crazy as the ecu is powering up and waking up and its only after about 5-15 seconds till the readings will stabilise, this is normal.

Check the positive battery lead is clean and making good contact tight with the battery, as dirty leads cause resistance that causes current drain.

I note you run the bike for 15mins, after using the starter you will discharge the battery significantly and a run of at least 5 - 10 miles would be needed to recharge what you have taken out. Running the bike at tickover
does not charge the battery sufficiently.

A sealed lead acid battery loses 1% of its charge daily whilst not being used, if a battery is left in a discharged or partially discharged state for too long, the plates inside "sulphate" then the battery no longer has its full capacity when recharged.

Check charging: voltmeter across battery should read 13.5 to 14.3 if charging correctly with engine running, ensure volts dont drop below 12.8 when lights on etc and above 1400 rpm. If not charging correctly
this shows alternator / regulator fault. You should see the voltage change as you rev the bike gently from tickover.


the drain of 0.18 is higher than i would expect, (0.056 should be about right without alarm or tracker powered up and if a satnav is fitted with a usb charging lead disconnect this as many are permanently live at 5v for charging phones etc) you disconnected the tracker, next i would check the alarm is switched off or disconnect it, also look for the bike wiring diagram and look for the charging circuit, the diodes in the regulator maybe failing, to isolate this you may need to disconnect the positive wiring to the alternator. ( if diode pack / regulator is inside the alternator) But do not start the engine with the alternator wire or wires removed, you will burn it out. Some bikes have either a relay or solid state device that switches charge to the battery, sometimes these can stick on draining the battery. (Diode / regulator pack) so if this is separate disconnect it and check battery drain WITHOUT ENGINE RUNNING ONLY) A process of elimination to find the current drain is required.



trickle charge the battery every 7-10 days overnight using a canbus friendly charger such as an optimate. then your battery should have at least 2 years lifespan.
starting a bike with a starter and running for 15 mins is no good for the battery. You are draining more out of the battery than what is being put back in. doing this regularly flattens the battery, not regularly charging it, ruins it. see https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/art...s/secret-workings-of-a-lead-acid-battery.html

0.18 x 12v = 2.16watts its too high ! Power = Amps x Volts so 0.18amps = 180ma so 0.18 x 12 = 2.16 watts


Batteries that are not fully charged, if discharged much below 11volts upsets all of your ecu settings as well, making bike even harder to start as all the settings are out, likewise fitting accessories like
heated clothing can demand too much from low capacity batteries, that inturn the volt drop upsets the ecu settings resulting in poor running etc. ( info given to educate others)

regards Steve
Click to expand...
Steve some good points but......
The meters range is 0-20mA, so why would it be reading in Amps ?
Resistance does not cause current drain.....WTF?
Lead acid batteries do not lose 1% a day. More like about a third of that.
 
I'm not sure where you are in the great metropolis - convenient to N.London, just south of Luton is ....... http://www.motoscot.co.uk/default.htm

Good reputation, I'm sure they can check things out for you if your dealer can't/won't help. I fancy everyone who has checked your bike has been too focussed on the tracker being the parasite & need to look elsewhere now, with a more open minded attitude. Incidentally, with all the chatter over the multi-meter readings, I can't recall whether you have a SatNav cradle fitted...or not?
 
AberdeenAngus said:
Steve some good points but......
The meters range is 0-20mA, so why would it be reading in Amps ?
Resistance does not cause current drain.....WTF?
Lead acid batteries do not lose 1% a day. More like about a third of that.
Click to expand...

I read this link and I understand from it that when you take a reading from the mA scale, the reading is in mA. In the answer they even explain that when he took the 0.5 reading, it should mean 50 mA but because it was just too far "down in the noise" (I think he means, too little current for low accuracy) to be useful.

I am now confused (being a complete layman, just self-taught about this in about an hour :D ) and divided between Steve and the rest. I thought I was reading 0.18 mA.

Think I need to go onto electrician training...probably a bit late for that :rob

Anyway, you all have been very helpful in many ways, as I probably need to up the antics with BMW...you guys have tried to help more in a few hours than them in 6 months...how incredible is that?
 
squibb34 said:
I'm not sure where you are in the great metropolis - convenient to N.London, just south of Luton is ....... http://www.motoscot.co.uk/default.htm

Good reputation, I'm sure they can check things out for you if your dealer can't/won't help. I fancy everyone who has checked your bike has been too focussed on the tracker being the parasite & need to look elsewhere now, with a more open minded attitude. Incidentally, with all the chatter over the multi-meter readings, I can't recall whether you have a SatNav cradle fitted...or not?
Click to expand...

I am in the great metropolis but I will now go anywhere, even China :) to get this sorted. Thanks a lot for the tip, I will call them tomorrow, first thing.
And yes, they have been focused on blaming the tracker, instead of really helping...

And yes again, I have a cradle fitted and a Navigator V as well. And I have auxiliary fog lights as well, those are the extras but never had any problems until the bike came back from the garage when it went for a repair.

Again, thanks for the motoscot tip.
 
It is 0.18mA as the meter is the 20mA range. The meter would not measure 180mA on the 20mA range.
So the power drain is 0.18mA x 12V = 2.16 mW or 0.00216W so bugger all.
Hope this helps.
 
Bradz said:
It is 0.18mA as the meter is the 20mA range. The meter would not measure 180mA on the 20mA range.
So the power drain is 0.18mA x 12V = 2.16 mW or 0.00216W so bugger all.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

That's what I though and yes, it does help indeed.
Just went to the garage and measured everything again...I think the photos below confirm the reading is in mA. I think it's just the accuracy as I believe someone mentioned here.

Anyway, I will call one of those BMW dealers and also motoscot, see what they say.

Thank you all for your help, amazing people here.

Cheers,
JB
 

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If you select the 10A range, you need to move the red lead over to the leftmost socket.
Watch what you're doing on this range as its unfused.
Get it wrong and the magic smoke will escape from your meter.
 
Apologies as i have an autoranging meter that just moves the decimal point, Bradz is correct: So the power drain is 0.18mA x 12V = 2.16 mW or 0.00216W so bugger all. so more likely areas to check are as i stated before.


Aberdeen Angus:
Resistance does cause current drain if something is switched on or faulty, poor leads can have resistance in (ohms) that causes volts drop. A poor battery lead can lead to poor starting and leads can become hot.
An ECU in standby or alarm switched on can pull larger current from a battery if the leads are corroded, Resistance is how an electric fire works ! Bulbs have resistance, thats why they illuminate, the filament wire gets hot and consumes power and draws amps
and has a measurable resistance!

Battery does loose 1% per day https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/art...s/secret-workings-of-a-lead-acid-battery.html

Self Discharge

One not-so-nice feature of lead acid batteries is that they discharge all by themselves even if not used. A general rule of thumb is a one percent per day rate of self-discharge. This rate increases at high temperatures and decreases at cold temperatures. Don't forget that your Gold Wing, with a clock, stereo, and CB radio, is never completely turned off. Each of those devices has a "keep alive memory" to preserve your radio pre-sets and time, and those memories draw about 20 milliamps, or .020 amps. This will suck about one half amp hour from your battery daily at 80 degrees Fahrenheit. This draw, combined with the self-discharge rate, will have your battery 50 percent discharged in two weeks if the bike is left unattended and unridden.furthermore starting the bike and not running it enough on a journey will flatten the battery, you may not have a problem at all ?
 
AberdeenAngus said:
If you select the 10A range, you need to move the red lead over to the leftmost socket.
Watch what you're doing on this range as its unfused.
Get it wrong and the magic smoke will escape from your meter.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, thanks for that, I forgot. I had done that the first time but you know...rookie stupidity! The meter was cheap but still would be a couple of pints down the drain :).
 
internaught said:
Apologies as i have an autoranging meter that just moves the decimal point, Bradz is correct: So the power drain is 0.18mA x 12V = 2.16 mW or 0.00216W so bugger all. so more likely areas to check are as i stated before.


Aberdeen Angus:
Resistance does cause current drain if something is switched on or faulty, poor leads can have resistance in (ohms) that causes volts drop. A poor battery lead can lead to poor starting and leads can become hot.
An ECU in standby or alarm switched on can pull larger current from a battery if the leads are corroded, Resistance is how an electric fire works ! Bulbs have resistance, thats why they illuminate, the filament wire gets hot and consumes power and draws amps
and has a measurable resistance!

Battery does loose 1% per day https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/art...s/secret-workings-of-a-lead-acid-battery.html

Self Discharge

One not-so-nice feature of lead acid batteries is that they discharge all by themselves even if not used. A general rule of thumb is a one percent per day rate of self-discharge. This rate increases at high temperatures and decreases at cold temperatures. Don't forget that your Gold Wing, with a clock, stereo, and CB radio, is never completely turned off. Each of those devices has a "keep alive memory" to preserve your radio pre-sets and time, and those memories draw about 20 milliamps, or .020 amps. This will suck about one half amp hour from your battery daily at 80 degrees Fahrenheit. This draw, combined with the self-discharge rate, will have your battery 50 percent discharged in two weeks if the bike is left unattended and unridden.furthermore starting the bike and not running it enough on a journey will flatten the battery, you may not have a problem at all ?
Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming Internaught, as it is such a small amount, I think I will contact BMW and motoscot before I go there and ask them whether this is unusual. One thing I really don't know is if it really was the tracker. I can assure you, the battery was depleted in 6 days, just like that.
The previous one held for a few months because I would run the bike almost everyday at for 15 minutes. When I let the bike sat in the garage for a couple of weeks, battery went as well.

As I said, before that repair after the attempted stealing, I had the tracker already but never had any problems and the bike sat for a couple of months between Nov 16 and Jan 17, without being touched and when I went with the police to pick up the bike from where they found it, it turned on immediately so, could it be that the tracker only started malfunctioning after the repair? Have no idea, I will speak with the BMW dealer again. Thanks.
 
Why not connect the tracker back up and see what the current draw is then. That will give you a better babes to work from. Good luck.
 
PhilBoy said:
Why not connect the tracker back up and see what the current draw is then. That will give you a better babes to work from. Good luck.
Click to expand...

The person who installed the tracker checked it and told me there was no current draw. After 6 months enduring this I just got fed up and got the tracker removed.

I have just called motoscot and I am going there tomorrow, hopefully they will get to the bottom of it, fingers crossed. :)
 
internaught said:
Aberdeen Angus:
Resistance does cause current drain if something is switched on or faulty, poor leads can have resistance in (ohms) that causes volts drop. A poor battery lead can lead to poor starting and leads can become hot.
An ECU in standby or alarm switched on can pull larger current from a battery if the leads are corroded, Resistance is how an electric fire works ! Bulbs have resistance, thats why they illuminate, the filament wire gets hot and consumes power and draws amps
and has a measurable resistance!
Click to expand...

Resistance does not cause current drain.
If its turned on then yes you'll get current drain - obviously. That's because its turned on.
If its faulty then perhaps you'll get current drain - depends on the fault.
But the increased resistance of a bad connection will not cause the current to increase - just the opposite.
As the resistance of a circuit increases, the current will drop, for a given voltage (Ohms Law).
Yes you'll get a voltage drop across the bad connection. This will cause the voltage across the fed device to fall accordingly.
So a 12v battery feeding a bulb. You will see 12v across the bulb. Add a bad connection that shows (say) 1v across it - then you will see 11v across the bulb.
As the resistance of the bulb hasn't changed - there must be less current going through it.
As we know, current is the same in all parts of the circuit (Kirchoffs Law) so that same current is flowing through the bad connection - creating the voltage.
If, as you say, increasing resistance, increases current - then what happens as resistance becomes very high - say as in an air gap - what happens then ?

internaught said:
Battery does loose 1% per day https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/art...s/secret-workings-of-a-lead-acid-battery.html
Click to expand...
That doesn't agree with many years experience dealing with car, bike and UPS lead acid batteries.
You're saying that an unused lead acid battery will lose 30% of its charge, in a month......nah. More like 10% a month, max.
How many folk have left their bike stood for a few months over the winter - and they've started just fine ?
This website reckons 5% per month
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/elevating_self_discharge
Wikipedia says much the same
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge


internaught said:
An ECU in standby or alarm switched on can pull larger current from a battery if the leads are corroded.
Click to expand...

Utter rubbish

internaught said:
Bulbs have resistance, thats why they illuminate, the filament wire gets hot and consumes power and draws amps
Click to expand...

You're confusing cause and effect again.

Some very confused teddies out there.
 
Batteries are like winning the loto, they can work fine for years and then just die, but usually the cause of them dying, is exactly as described, leaving a bike for months not being put on an Optimate or other charger, this exact thing happened to me on my old Harley, I learn,t my lesson from that, and I can tell you that a tracker will use the battery if it is transmitting all the time, just like a smartphone uses the battery way more quickly when having the WIFI on and being out of range of the wifi, it continuosly scans, and uses the battery, just a hint. also if you are only riding it 15 minutes, the battery will not have time to charge up unless you are really nailing it to the floor.
 
Hey Jazz,
I am no elec expert so I will leave that to the boys above. However, I had a new GSA from Vines in Sep 15. Throughout 2016 I had 4 catastrophic battery failures. After each one I was 'assured' it was fixed. By the 4th time I had lost confidence, took the bike back and told them I never wanted to see the effing bike again. I subsequently came to an agreement with them and traded the bike for a new TB last Dec. No probs with this one thank goodness.
I believe this is a KNOWN problem with some bikes and the dealer / BMW have a duty of care to us as customers.

Good luck mate
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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