K1600 - Cam Chain has jumped a tooth.

Max

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After a short stop the Bike (2011 GT) refused to restart. I tried bump starting it but there was no compression which was an ominous sign.
The bike has been recovered to Vines who identified a cam chain problem with all inlet valves bent. (This comes on top of a gearbox replacement earlier in the year and a replacement drive shaft and bevel gear last year)

The bike has always been serviced by BMW.

What is the considered opinion of the experts here? Will BMW cover the cost of a rebuild or will they put in a new engine?

I very much hope that I am not left to foot the bill for this one - it feels very very expensive.



Thoughts?

Max
 
You seem to have enjoyed a good selection of the potential of K16 woes - no engine corrosion or switchgear failures mentioned?

Have you bought extended Warranty? Otherwise you will have to deploy exceptional powers of persuasion, in the hope of some 'goodwill' help from the mothership, as a new short engine beckons. I hear talk of £6-8k!!

If you check out the Forum ........... www.k1600forum.com ........ there are some posts regarding this issue, although not many in fairness. Starts with a rattle from the cam chain, due to the CTT not pressurising promptly on start up & usually settles down if the engine is left to just tick over until good & hot. However, ride & rev it from near cold & .......... well you know the outcome. Some folk reckon halving the period between oil changes helps, others that the unusual oil level check procedure has left them confused to the extent that they run low. Others reckon it's a chicken & egg issue - the piston ringlands fail due to pre-ignition, she draws oil into the airbox, which shows in the condensate tube & high oil consumption ensues which then gives rise to other issues.

My K16 days are over; mine was an early 2012 'Friday afternoon' bike; let me down big time so I moved on to an FJR for touring. However, when they behave, that big 6 is a glorious engine & many owners suffer no problems whatsoever. Young Wapping of this Parish remains a loyal fan as far as I know, so is probably more up-to-date than me.

Thoughts you ask ............. BUGGER probably sums it up. There is a breaker/ CAT C on ebay still I think.

Good luck with Vines - keep us posted .................... KEN
 
Your bike is 6 years old - 4 years out of BMW Warranty is it not? or have you bought it S/H and have a one year warranty?

If its the former, suggest you get your credit card ready.......
 
You seem to have enjoyed a good selection of the potential of K16 woes - no engine corrosion or switchgear failures mentioned?

Have you bought extended Warranty? Otherwise you will have to deploy exceptional powers of persuasion, in the hope of some 'goodwill' help from the mothership, as a new short engine beckons. I hear talk of £6-8k!!

If you check out the Forum ........... www.k1600forum.com ........ there are some posts regarding this issue, although not many in fairness. Starts with a rattle from the cam chain, due to the CTT not pressurising promptly on start up & usually settles down if the engine is left to just tick over until good & hot. However, ride & rev it from near cold & .......... well you know the outcome. Some folk reckon halving the period between oil changes helps, others that the unusual oil level check procedure has left them confused to the extent that they run low. Others reckon it's a chicken & egg issue - the piston ringlands fail due to pre-ignition, she draws oil into the airbox, which shows in the condensate tube & high oil consumption ensues which then gives rise to other issues.

My K16 days are over; mine was an early 2012 'Friday afternoon' bike; let me down big time so I moved on to an FJR for touring. However, when they behave, that big 6 is a glorious engine & many owners suffer no problems whatsoever. Young Wapping of this Parish remains a loyal fan as far as I know, so is probably more up-to-date than me.

Thoughts you ask ............. BUGGER probably sums it up. There is a breaker/ CAT C on ebay still I think.

Good luck with Vines - keep us posted .................... KEN

Why would he need a short engine to fix bent valves and replace timing chain and sprockets and tensioner? Or does something happen to the bottom end? I’d imagine a little bit less than that. Maybe a head at most. JJH
 
Why would he need a short engine to fix bent valves and replace timing chain and sprockets and tensioner? Or does something happen to the bottom end? I’d imagine a little bit less than that. Maybe a head at most. JJH

Let's see what Vines say - they may only have scouted around with an endoscope. BMW have been replacing complete engines units on some bikes under warranty, the whole shooting match including trans, whilst others with ringlands failures have had to endure the dealer fitting new pistons if the cylinder walls are OK. If all 12 inlet valves have collided with the pistons you have to consider the likely abnormal stresses on the conrods & crank, as well as any debris that might have floated around in the cylinders. I reckon a new engine unit will be recommended as a more time efficient solution if we have the facts right.
 
Your bike is 6 years old - 4 years out of BMW Warranty is it not? or have you bought it S/H and have a one year warranty?

If its the former, suggest you get your credit card ready.......

It's a bloody BMW which are supposed to be famous for their quality and fantastic service.

Considering the problems this bike has faced previously, the fact that it's always been serviced by BMW and used for what it was intended ie not races, I would be hugely disappointed if BMW UK were not helpful in dealing with this problem.

My view is that it's totally outrageous some feel obligated to take out extended guarantees because prestige bikes that cost a huge amount may go bang.

If this were the case with cars, their reputation and resale value would be hugely affected and individuals/fleet buyers wouldn't touch them.

Anyone saying tough shit, get your cheque book out is taking a simplistic view. If it costs £6k to repair and you get no help from BMW you may as well not bother because the bike isn't worth much more in good working order and you may as well dismantle it and sell it bit by bit as spare parts.
 
Thanks for the thoughts,
I gave just a small part of the problems that have included 2 gearbox rebuilds before the whole unit was replaced (I got the price down to a 50% contribution), no major engine corrosion but balanced by frame corrosion that required a new frame. Switchgear? Oh yes! I think the count is 3 each side. A couple of ignition packs would complete most of the major issues!

The most serious of these was the driveshaft which was a few miles away from completely seizing up, 2 up on the motorway. This was 150 miles after a major service where I told them (Cannons in this case) that there was a significant vibration issue. In their brilliance they replaced the front wheel bearing that was only 3 months old, and responded to the failure with the useful comment that the driveshaft wasn't a service Item. Vines incidentally stripped out a new bike then and there and had us back on the road in 2 hours without a question of me paying anything. Big up for Vines!

I will keep you posted as to how things progress but it does seem as though this is far from an isolated incident.


Having said all that, BMW have been (reasonably) understanding and , with a bit of arguing, have generally covered most. if not all, the repair costs.
 
Really fancy one of these. Waiting to see how I get on with the rust issues on my l/c gsa. Was thinking of changing to a k1600 when it’s sorted (fingers crossed). I think I’ll go for a rt. Or when my bike is sorted I might just keep it. JJH
 
Thanks for the suggestion. Its looking more and more like a realistic solution given the problems I have had with this lump..
BMW came back today and have declined to make any contribution to the cost of around £1800 to fix the bike. I was surprised that the cost was not more but still feel that, given the cam chain is a non service item, and the design of the tensioner has been changed for precisely this reason, they would have been more accommodating. However the bod in the Goodwill department had absolutely no authority, or knowledge of how an engine works, so my remonstrations fell on deaf ears.
In essence it means that, beyond the manufacturers warranty of 2 years, there is absolutely no point in using the main BMW dealership network. Alternatively, as the Goodwill bod helpfully suggested, I should have bought an extended warranty. Timing, as they say , is everything,. He missed the mark by some way.
Feeling extremely Effed off and will have a think about what to do next.
 
£1800 is no where near what you expected. One way or another it’s got to be fixed. Isn’t there a warranty on jobs like that? I hope you don’t think that I’m being insensitive with the size of the bill. It is a lot and a total pain. Mabey they are slyly giving a bit off the price without going public on it? JJH
 
Gutted for you.
A decent independent could knock a chunk off that perhaps?

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
 
£1800 is no where near what you expected. One way or another it’s got to be fixed. Isn’t there a warranty on jobs like that? I hope you don’t think that I’m being insensitive with the size of the bill. It is a lot and a total pain. Mabey they are slyly giving a bit off the price without going public on it? JJH

It really depends on precisely what they intend to do to effect a repair. Fixing the cylinder head, maybe some pistons, a new CC & CCT may not address the root cause, so this could happen all over again. If it's a new engine unit, then £1800 seems more acceptable, along with a 2 year warranty on the work.
 
It really depends on precisely what they intend to do to effect a repair. Fixing the cylinder head, maybe some pistons, a new CC & CCT may not address the root cause, so this could happen all over again. If it's a new engine unit, then £1800 seems more acceptable, along with a 2 year warranty on the work.

As you say it depends on what they are doing. I think they should be doing more considering the history. JJH
 
I'd drop the engine out build a stand and lift the head off and assess from there, 12 valves is £???

Might have just marked the pistons slightly

Which can only be assessed when it's stripped

But gaskets valves and your own time are a lot cheaper

On the other hand get the bike collected and delivered back and leave someone else the hassle to deal with

Warranty sounds a bonus

Bottom line is :- Whilst it shouldn't have wrecked itself
Could you buy another bike like yours for £1800
 
If it’s high mileage the manufacturers will eventually wash their hands of liability, if all else fails I would ask the dealer to discount the parts & possibly Labour, remember you get a 2 year warranty on the repair if it’s done at a Bmw dealer.. (I think)
Always try a good independent but there’s fewer of those about who have experience in an engine rebuild nowadays.

Good luck whatever you decide
 
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Realistically the bike is in bits at Vines so to contemplate moving it to an independent is not practical.
As always Derren Hodgson at Vines couldn't have been more helpful and they will do a compression test before the bike is returned. I will ask if the timing chain and tensioner have been changed. I suspect, given that there has been a mod to the tensioner which has resulted in similar failures, that they will have done this.
Ho Hum, Shit happens but the exercise has been interesting in so far as, apart from emptying my wallet, I really like the bike and don't want to make an emotional decision to chop it in for a different model.
BTW the mileage is 36k.
 


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