Not a complaint.just my findings.sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.I can accept that.
Another Hilltop Convert
- Thread starter ShakeyBMW
- Start date
But you said......
Why not go back for a refund then? The guys offer a full refund if you're not happy. I'm struggling to understand why you wouldn't take advantage of the refund?
Let's flip the coin, it can feel slight confrontational by asking for ones money back in someone's workshop whilst employees are present, some don't have the confidence and don't want any confrontation, so I do see why some bods don't do as above.
Phone him up:
"Hey Geoff, I'm not seeing any improvement in the bike - I think I'd like it returned to standard"
"Okay - when can you come in?"
"How about Monday? yes? - okay see you then"
Bike goes on computer, software removed, trial run on the road, and money handed back.
Where is the confrontation?
Or alternatively
Geoff I don't see any improvement but I am not prepared to let you fuck about with the bike again in case you manage to make it worse.
Where is the confrontation ?
Thanks for running it again Geoff, how's the chart look.
Oh, tweeked it here and showing another 20hp, go and try it out.
Well Geoff, I can't feel that improvement.
Well Wonkey my chart says it there mate so must be you.
Probably is Geoff but can I have my £300 back pls
But the chart shows the improvement
I know Geoff, can I have my money back
Well the chart shows it, so it's there
Etc etc etc
That's just twisted thinking. Geoff has stated "if you are not happy with it" as being the justification for a refund (not - "only if you prove it is not good"). Also - Geoff overlays the original mapping - so simply removes the overlay and the ECU looks at the original map again.
So they just bitch on a forum instead, where the company's reputation gets dragged through the mud? That's not a very nice way to be, if you ask me.
Not according to another poster the last time this came up on here, cost him a £££ to put right by bmw apparently, so I'll keep away and put it down to experience.
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It has occurred to me that unless all these bikes going over to Hilltop are brand new.
How do you know if a remap hasn't already been done on your engine. It may already be at it's prime, having been remapped already.
Some on here get their bikes remapped immediately after the first service at 600 miles. So any second hand bike could have been done already.
Now, before you go saying that the 'before' and 'after' charts would show the remapped figures, not necessarily.
Rolling Road technicians can manipulate 'before' graphs if they want to (playing them down to show a greater increase with the 'after' chart). I'm not suggesting that Hilltop do this, but it happens and more often than you think. Again, greed getting in the way of an honest service.
So you wouldn't always know, except by running time/measured-distance runs. To see what the difference was.
Just saying...
How do you know if a remap hasn't already been done on your engine. It may already be at it's prime, having been remapped already.
Some on here get their bikes remapped immediately after the first service at 600 miles. So any second hand bike could have been done already.
Now, before you go saying that the 'before' and 'after' charts would show the remapped figures, not necessarily.
Rolling Road technicians can manipulate 'before' graphs if they want to (playing them down to show a greater increase with the 'after' chart). I'm not suggesting that Hilltop do this, but it happens and more often than you think. Again, greed getting in the way of an honest service.
So you wouldn't always know, except by running time/measured-distance runs. To see what the difference was.
Just saying...
Hundreds of positive comments and a couple of negative and thats bitching and dragging his companies reputation through the mud, don't be a dick.
Did Geoff ever respond on here, to the people who had negative experiences last time? Cant recall a pm offering me £300 back. The first I knew of it was on here, can't seem to see it on his website either, so can you point me in the direction of this refund guarantee please.
Regardless if you give em there money back they will still air there feelings on the interweb, across the bike forums there's lots of Doubters regarding re-map's and there big increased gains.
I was told on another forum its impossible to get over 20bhp gain on my stock Ktm with just a re-map when bods have spent ££££ on well known mods and Dyno time to only get similar figures. Impossible... I gave up fighting my corner
Pick up the phone, tell him you're not happy, and would like a refund. What's the problem with doing that?
Regardless if you give em there money back they will still air there feelings on the interweb, across the bike forums there's lots of Doubters regarding re-map's and there big increased gains.
I was told on another forum its impossible to get over 20bhp gain on my stock Ktm with just a re-map when bods have spent ££££ on well known mods and Dyno time to only get similar figures. Impossible... I gave up fighting my corner
It probably is, but depends on the dyno, all dyno read differently and as others have stated, starting figures can be adjusted easily. Having had many engines mapped, both motorcycle and race cars, 20bhp increase with no performance improvement add ons or head work would be very unusual. Normally you would expect a very modest if any increase in bhp, but a much better fuel map.
I know - why don't we lock this thread down and have a poll for hilltop mods put up instead? It can just have 3 simple choices and one vote only to be done if you have first hand experiance of a hilltop remap - nothing else.
It could run for a month or two and then lock it down also - job done, refer all new posts asking about hilltop remaps to the poll.
Simply:
Yes it worked and I noticed a difference, I would recomend it.
I'm not sure if I can tell the difference - I'm taking the 5th on this one.
I cannot feel a difference, I would not recomend it.
This would give a more meaningfull answer with no one getting highlighted for not following the crowd.
Sound like a plan??
James
It could run for a month or two and then lock it down also - job done, refer all new posts asking about hilltop remaps to the poll.
Simply:
Yes it worked and I noticed a difference, I would recomend it.
I'm not sure if I can tell the difference - I'm taking the 5th on this one.
I cannot feel a difference, I would not recomend it.
This would give a more meaningfull answer with no one getting highlighted for not following the crowd.
Sound like a plan??
James
Not reallly, a lot of people ask a lot of valid questions.
If you feel that you have seen enough of hilltop threads, don't read them.
Agreed.
However, what if the questions are:
a) is the bike is smoother at low rpm through the gears? = 1) yes, 2) maybe 3) no
b) do I believe my bike now has 20% more torque & power? = 1) yes, 2) maybe, 3) you're having a laugh!!
Mine would be 1 & 3.
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I was told on another forum its impossible to get over 20bhp gain on my stock Ktm with just a re-map when bods have spent ££££ on well known mods and Dyno time to only get similar figures. Impossible... I gave up fighting my corner
I've had a fair few remaps over the years on fast road cars I owned.
I spent £3500 once on performance modifications and went on a rolling road day.
One guy (big mouth) had spent £95 on a second hand chip plug in.
His car ran 3 bhp more than mine on the day, and he launched onto his soap box for weeks.
However, what he didn't realise, and what most people dont realise, is that peak BHP is only 10% of the story.
As the Rolling Road technician said to me, he loved my car and knew what fun I must be having on the road.
Because my BHP and Torque power came in lower in the rev range, lasted longer. I had 40 BHP more in places.
But peak BHP is all people see.
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