Indeed, but when its p' ing down , the last thing i wanted to be is on my knees roadside trying to plug/ unplug connectors
If darling Doris has blown herself out tommorrow, i'll give it a go then
Misfire & data logs
- Thread starter Santa-2512
- Start date
Indeed, but when its p' ing down , the last thing i wanted to be is on my knees roadside trying to plug/ unplug connectors
If darling Doris has blown herself out tommorrow, i'll give it a go then
It's easy Eleanor this time around!!!!
Well i managed to get out yesterday, and this is what i found
I did
1x 14 mile loop with both secondarys disconnected
2x 7 mile runs with both secondarys connected
Run 1
Starting from cold, with the secondarys disconnected, the bike was lumpy and seemed to lack grunt, tickover was at about 1K
No misfiring apeared to be observed or felt during the run.
The only thing of note was when i went to blip the throttle at the end of the first loop, the bike gave a big couch, but caught, and carried on running. Tickover was at bout 1.1K bike warm
Run2
Secondarys connected nothing to report really, bike ran fine, a tad smoother than the first run - no misfire felt or heard
So it would suggest coils ok ...
I think its water in the fuel, either i go for draining the tank, or adding some water evaporating stuff
I did
1x 14 mile loop with both secondarys disconnected
2x 7 mile runs with both secondarys connected
Run 1
Starting from cold, with the secondarys disconnected, the bike was lumpy and seemed to lack grunt, tickover was at about 1K
No misfiring apeared to be observed or felt during the run.
The only thing of note was when i went to blip the throttle at the end of the first loop, the bike gave a big couch, but caught, and carried on running. Tickover was at bout 1.1K bike warm
Run2
Secondarys connected nothing to report really, bike ran fine, a tad smoother than the first run - no misfire felt or heard
So it would suggest coils ok ...
I think its water in the fuel, either i go for draining the tank, or adding some water evaporating stuff
That suggests that the tickover stepper motors are not doing their stuff When cold the tickover should be 1200 because the steppers have opened to allow more air in to burn off the excess fuel that is injected when cold
Bendy toy
Registered user
Misfire & data logs
If the engine is fine above 1500 but ticks over lumpy or feels likely to stall as you come to a stop then a stepper is likely.
Next time check exhaust headers the moment you start it. I’d one side is less hot that will the the wonky side. After a few seconds you probably won’t be able to detect a difference.
The symptoms with secondary coils disconnected sound about right.
If the engine is fine above 1500 but ticks over lumpy or feels likely to stall as you come to a stop then a stepper is likely.
Next time check exhaust headers the moment you start it. I’d one side is less hot that will the the wonky side. After a few seconds you probably won’t be able to detect a difference.
The symptoms with secondary coils disconnected sound about right.
Took it out today, and it was the polar opposite
Started fine and ran well,
Until i hit taffic, and was forced to do the low speed stuff-
Then it started. The best way to describle it is open the throttle around 3k rpm,
and it will not open up cleanly, it stutters and misfires (misfuels) until its cleared
the 3-3.5k mark, then its fine. If i snap the throttle open, or give it a handfull to
get over 3K its fine. but trying to fine control the bike around the 3K mark is a pig
i'ts either jerky or on / off the throttle.
Started fine and ran well,
Until i hit taffic, and was forced to do the low speed stuff-
Then it started. The best way to describle it is open the throttle around 3k rpm,
and it will not open up cleanly, it stutters and misfires (misfuels) until its cleared
the 3-3.5k mark, then its fine. If i snap the throttle open, or give it a handfull to
get over 3K its fine. but trying to fine control the bike around the 3K mark is a pig
i'ts either jerky or on / off the throttle.
What is the data reading across the lamda probes??
It does sound as if its not getting enough "air" and Bogging down ??
IN fact try disconnecting both lamda probes that will default it to a std map ??
It does sound as if its not getting enough "air" and Bogging down ??
IN fact try disconnecting both lamda probes that will default it to a std map ??
Typical, i didnt have the logger on for todays run, but i can look back at the last runs
i get 4x values reported for lambda
Lambda control factor Cyl 1 & 2
Lambda sensor voltage Cyl 1 & 2
Lambda sensor Heating Cyl 1 & 2
Take your pick
which ones shold i look at ??
Typical, i didnt have the logger on for todays run, but i can look back at the last runs
i get 4x values reported for lambda
Lambda control factor Cyl 1 & 2
Lambda sensor voltage Cyl 1 & 2
Lambda sensor Heating Cyl 1 & 2
Take your pick
LOL thats only 3
Control factor I think is the one that the Ecu uses
We used to verify the voltage range but I can't remember the exact value but -120 > 800 Millivolt "I think"
What you are looking for is big deviations between the two sets of data
Yes you are correct 3 lol
Interesting -
Looking at the two sets of data, nothing obvious jumps out, so i added an extra colum of data, to show the varince between Cyl 1 & Cyl2 -
In terms of raw data it appears ok with some variance swings between the two - one high one low not sure if ive used the correct range but the combined range swings between 0.75 - 1.11
However if i put the two sets of data together there is variance between the two plots - the variance looks big on
a graph, but in terms of numeric data its a small number
However there are some quite large swings toward the end of the data-
I added injector timing into the graph, to reduce the spikiness of the lambda data and you can see Cyl 2 goes haywire toward the end of the run
Using a quick data clculation to show variance i can see that the avarage variance betwen the two sets of readings is
around +-0.15 max with the centre range being about -0.05 then at about 3/4 of the way into
the data it starts to change and the range starts to reduce until it goes the other way and it ends
up with a positive value of over 0.3
so somthing is changing
I will drop onto the other PC and get some screenshots attached -
Mac running bootcamp is crap for screenshots lol
Bendy toy
Registered user
Does it run rich towards the end of longer rides?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Well, ive made the following observations / conclusions today.
The bike was designed by men, but the software systems by a group of collective harpies,
The man side, Runs until broke!
The Harpie side, gives you errors, warnings, and data that is useless unless you have a degree in harpieism!!!!
FFS more problems today than before & Hexcode are just about to get a broadside too!!!
The bike was designed by men, but the software systems by a group of collective harpies,
The man side, Runs until broke!
The Harpie side, gives you errors, warnings, and data that is useless unless you have a degree in harpieism!!!!
FFS more problems today than before & Hexcode are just about to get a broadside too!!!
OK, today's episode lol
Took it for a good run,
A - To get is nice and hot, and to try the various suggestions
So 12 mile run to get it nice and warm, nothing untoward, round town, then onto the A27 at a constant 60mph
Noticed i needed fuel, so headed toward the local Saino's
Came off the A 27 into the short run into the garage ... down through the gears to walking pace, and it cuts out
Restarted and it's bouncing the revs all over the place - 1k-2k then cuts out again ... then it wouldn't idle just
stalled !!! Got it restarted and by keeping the revs over 2k rode home - no fuel lol
got it home, and although seeming lumpy it idled quite happily. so i disconnected the secondary's and went out ...
Lumpy again at low rpm but nothing dramatic.
Got back reconnected the secondary's, and disconnected the Lamda's 7noted a cable going into the block by the oil
sight glass.
Now i have a low oil light on the dash FFS, rev the bike and it goes off - idle and its back ...hmmm
anyway went out for a short run.. oil light off, good, but noted rpm at 2k constant .... hmm.
Reconnected the lamda's, no change in rpm until i blipped throttle - then settled back to 1K ish
No problem i thought ive got it all on data logger...
Nope - good old hexcode app, doesn't allow re connection & continue data logging if connection lost
so after the first cut out i have no data recorded .... email on the way to Hexcode !
i'm going to look at the data once Ive had a coffee, but you can guess the harpies will not make it easy!
Took it for a good run,
A - To get is nice and hot, and to try the various suggestions
So 12 mile run to get it nice and warm, nothing untoward, round town, then onto the A27 at a constant 60mph
Noticed i needed fuel, so headed toward the local Saino's
Came off the A 27 into the short run into the garage ... down through the gears to walking pace, and it cuts out
Restarted and it's bouncing the revs all over the place - 1k-2k then cuts out again ... then it wouldn't idle just
stalled !!! Got it restarted and by keeping the revs over 2k rode home - no fuel lol
got it home, and although seeming lumpy it idled quite happily. so i disconnected the secondary's and went out ...
Lumpy again at low rpm but nothing dramatic.
Got back reconnected the secondary's, and disconnected the Lamda's 7noted a cable going into the block by the oil
sight glass.
Now i have a low oil light on the dash FFS, rev the bike and it goes off - idle and its back ...hmmm
anyway went out for a short run.. oil light off, good, but noted rpm at 2k constant .... hmm.
Reconnected the lamda's, no change in rpm until i blipped throttle - then settled back to 1K ish
No problem i thought ive got it all on data logger...
Nope - good old hexcode app, doesn't allow re connection & continue data logging if connection lost
so after the first cut out i have no data recorded .... email on the way to Hexcode !
i'm going to look at the data once Ive had a coffee, but you can guess the harpies will not make it easy!
Bendy toy
Registered user
Misfire & data logs
It sounds like you have an air leak behind a throttle body stepper motor issues or the throttle position sensor is giving uneven signals.
BTW mine starts fine but has never ticked over really smoothly. It’s got a bit worse lately so I suspected an idle stepper motor.
I’m usually plugged up with ear plugs but the other night with only a mile to go it was put-putting like an old 2 stroke at low revs. There was no mechanical roughness but it sounded unhappy. The throttles are balanced and at normal riding revs it’s all fine.
Next step is to try a pair of known good steppers.
It sounds like you have an air leak behind a throttle body stepper motor issues or the throttle position sensor is giving uneven signals.
BTW mine starts fine but has never ticked over really smoothly. It’s got a bit worse lately so I suspected an idle stepper motor.
I’m usually plugged up with ear plugs but the other night with only a mile to go it was put-putting like an old 2 stroke at low revs. There was no mechanical roughness but it sounded unhappy. The throttles are balanced and at normal riding revs it’s all fine.
Next step is to try a pair of known good steppers.
Well it let me down big time Sunday evening.
Went to fill with fuel and it was running like a bag of spanners missing and wouldnt tickover.
Managed to get the 911 on it and get it going, so i hopefully have some data
showing the erratic and crap / not exsistant idle
I'm temepted to reset all adaptions and see if that sorts it
If i get some time tommorow, i'll get the data on a big screen, and spend some time
going through it
Went to fill with fuel and it was running like a bag of spanners missing and wouldnt tickover.
Managed to get the 911 on it and get it going, so i hopefully have some data
showing the erratic and crap / not exsistant idle
I'm temepted to reset all adaptions and see if that sorts it
If i get some time tommorow, i'll get the data on a big screen, and spend some time
going through it
Well it let me down big time Sunday evening.
Went to fill with fuel and it was running like a bag of spanners missing and wouldnt tickover.
Managed to get the 911 on it and get it going, so i hopefully have some data
showing the erratic and crap / not exsistant idle
I'm temepted to reset all adaptions and see if that sorts it
If i get some time tommorow, i'll get the data on a big screen, and spend some time
going through it
Just had a thought, the one thing i havent checked is contaminated fuel --- might drain the tank and seen what comes out .. or may just get some absorber liquid stuff and bung that in
Hooked it up via the laptop last night and let it do its stuff,
i reset the idle steppers, and started the bike -
it was immpecable - the data logs i got dont show anything untoward as far as i can see
i missed the initial start, but ran th bike upto operating temp and all seemed ok ...
It rained last night, i may repeat the excesise and see if anything shows up now
i reset the idle steppers, and started the bike -
it was immpecable - the data logs i got dont show anything untoward as far as i can see
i missed the initial start, but ran th bike upto operating temp and all seemed ok ...
It rained last night, i may repeat the excesise and see if anything shows up now
The oil sender connector next to the oil sightglass on LHS is a single wire for low oil pressure alarm.
The oil level sensor is twin wire on the opposite side above the lambda probe, no low level alarm just an icon that comes on when hot and in neutral.
Was your bike very hot, as it sounds like your low oil pressure warning light was on at low rpm judging by your description in #33 above, not the low level icon.
The oil level sensor is twin wire on the opposite side above the lambda probe, no low level alarm just an icon that comes on when hot and in neutral.
Was your bike very hot, as it sounds like your low oil pressure warning light was on at low rpm judging by your description in #33 above, not the low level icon.
Normal temp - the light went off when i revved the engine,
Wasnt on when i tried it last night,
may have been when i was pulling the labmda cables about
And yes before asks, it fully filled with 100/100 grease
The oil pressure connector can be prone to water ingress, a mates GS had a temperamental oil pressure warning when wet. Might be worth a squirt of WD or similar on the connector.
My old 2004 GS had issues from build in summer stop/start traffic with oil warnings using 10W40, solved when BMW changed to 20W50 for oil servicing in 2006.
My old 2004 GS had issues from build in summer stop/start traffic with oil warnings using 10W40, solved when BMW changed to 20W50 for oil servicing in 2006.
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