Are you a Hendon shuffler?

Like the use of indicators apparently.

Is your view that you shouldn’t do it as he suggested, because it’s DSA or because a different way is better?

I’m an amateur rider and I’ve done it the ‘DSA way’ for the last 28 years.




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It's worth mentioning the 'DSA way' is very different and much more 'real world' than it was certainly 28 yrs ago and would say even more so in the past couple of years.

A realistic examiner wants to see a smooth, safe ride using a 'system' that's readily adaptable, sensible forward planning and ideally using road position to your overall advantage.
Additionally the rider needs to 'get on with it'!!
 
Is your view that you shouldn’t do it as he suggested, because it’s DSA or because a different way is better ? ....


So to answer your question ....

Firstly, I hear what Mellors says above, and I have no doubt that the basic bike test has come on a long way from certainly what I remember (used to be a DSA instructor many many moons ago). My view, and whilst I can't speak for the likes of Mike O, Micky or any of the other Job / ex Job / instructor / IAM examiner folks ... I'm sure they'd agree with me that ....

There's GCSE's, theres A levels, theres uni degrees, and there's PHD's...etc. Whilst the basic bike test probably has come on leaps and bounds, they (DSA) are still required (and rightly so) to be a little bit black and white and a little bit Janet and John with certain aspects of bike riding. Positioning? Lane discipline? indicating? straight lining roundabouts? overtaking ? You name it, the DSA, and a DSA examiner will have a view on it.
And that is right. If I had a 17 year old son who was doing his bike test, I would want him to be taught the basic foundation stones of a DSA standard, even if that is a little bit Janet and John for now. I would expect him to be taught for example, lane discipline at a roundabout. I would not expect him to be to be straight lining it and missing the centre island by an inch! I wouldn't expect (or want) him a few weeks into a life on two wheels to be straight lining a country lane, borrowing a little bit of the offside to iron out that kink, overtaking a car and then using the offside that he's found himself in to his advantage as he now approaches that left hand bend ... Yet ....
A little knowledge two weeks in is a dangerous thing ...

But there comes a time to move on from GCSE's and to start your A levels, your uni degrees ... Life here in the world of driver training is a bit more grown up, and yes ... to answer your question, it is a 'better way'.

Sometimes on the Rapid days, I'll follow a motorcyclist into a roundabout. It's empty - nothing on it, nothing anywhere near it, nothing behind us. We slow, we have a life saver behind us, we have three looks into the empty junction to our right (that we would potentially give way to), we go all the way round the outside, have another couple of life savers, indicate to nobody that we're leaving, stick another life saver in for good measure and then carry on down the road. It's painful !! (and the irony is that the rider thinks he's being very safe and very 'advanced').

Is there a better way than that? Yep .... a PHD way. It's relaxed, its get on with it, it's mirrors every six or seven seconds, it's knowing theres nothing behind me, it's looking into that roundabout from 200 metres away, it's systematic use of positioning, brakes and gears on the approach, it's confirming there's nothing in that right hand junction to give way to, it's over the roundabout in a dead straight line (quick mirror check confirming everything we know as we exit) and it's picking up on that vanishing point in half a mile, and setting ourselves up for a position for that bend ... now .... as we briskly accelerate up the gear box towards it ... (KTM 1290 just wafting the front wheel as we go .... :D).

My daughters have both relatively recently past their test. My eldest did it all by a driving school and when she passed told me "Hey Dad, I must be a really good driver - I only got two minors .. " She bought herself a little first timers car, and we went out. Fuck me !!!!! I tell you with no word of a lie that I was genuinely shocked at how bad her driving was!! her vision was .... well, it was the end of her bonnet ! She has sooooo much to learn. Planning? Anticipation? Hazard awareness? Car control? Not a clue .... (And we haven't even touched on things like matching engine revs and smoothing out those down changes - we are light years away from that!)

So we've been out for a day, and we'll continue to go out every now and then and work on vision, planning, limit points, system, acceleration sense (she was constantly tapping her brakes - no sense of acceleration sense at all ... it had never even been mentioned to her ...), and all the things that take you from GCSE to uni, to PHD. (I doubt we'll ever get that far ... :D).

Look at what people do to their bikes to make them quicker .. smoother. How many hundreds of pounds do people spend on exhausts, remaps, carbon bling ... all to make their bike perform better on the road. (I am guilty too !!).

Your biggest / safety / smoothness / performance gain?? Training. If you never take training ever, from the day you past your test, then you've probably just been compounding basic errors in your riding for the last twenty odd years. Your brain, your vision, your planning, your decision making .... that is the source of the biggest gains in driver improvement you can make. That, is where all those performance gains will be found, not a flipping £700 akraprovich exhaust !

I have no problem with the DSA way, I'm confident they've got it pretty much spot on, and every body has to start there. (and there are good instructors, and there are great instructors). But it really is just the start ...

:thumb2
 
Your biggest / safety / smoothness / performance gain?? Training. If you never take training ever, from the day you past your test, then you've probably just been compounding basic errors in your riding for the last twenty odd years. Your brain, your vision, your planning, your decision making .... that is the source of the biggest gains in driver improvement you can make. That, is where all those performance gains will be found, not a flipping £700 akraprovich exhaust !

:thumb2

And the biggest problem is convincing riders of this
 
And the biggest problem is convincing riders of this

I accompany every student of mine during their DAS test debrief with the examiner, to say that debrief can be 'robust' is an under statement.
I've seen men in tears of fear as despite having passed their test the examiner also wants to drive home the importance of further training.

On the other hand, the examiner may simply say yes a tidy ride with nothing to talk about except to talk with myself regarding further training.

What I'm saying is, every single new rider is encouraged to take further training at the moment they've passed their test.

You can take a horse to water......
 
Jesus Christ, rules on what foot to put down when coming to a stop.

FFS get a grip .
 
I see and appreciate what some folks are saying. Yes it's very nice to come to a stop, stick your right leg out place the heel on the floor and let it roll onto the ball of your foot just as you come to a standstill. Looks good, looks professional. But and there is a but, it doesn't matter how good a rider you are the aforementioned is impossible to do on a bike with a 32" seat height if you've only a 29" inside leg. Which by the way is my seat height and my inside leg measurement.:D So, am I a Hendon shuffler? Well yes on occasions I am, why? because there are occasions when for me it is not only easier but safer. In most instances it's not difficult to see or feel which way the bike is going to naturally tip when I come to a stop, so for me it's that foot that comes down, sometimes it's the left sometimes it's the right. If I need to come down on my left foot then shift the weight of the bike onto the right then so be it, in my opinion I'm stopping on the leg that is giving me most control. Does this affect my standard of riding? I don't believe so, but if someone can point out a better way I'm always receptive to suggestions.
 
, but if someone can point out a better way I'm always receptive to suggestions.

Heels .... :D



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I see and appreciate what some folks are saying. Yes it's very nice to come to a stop, stick your right leg out place the heel on the floor and let it roll onto the ball of your foot just as you come to a standstill. Looks good, looks professional. But and there is a but, it doesn't matter how good a rider you are the aforementioned is impossible to do on a bike with a 32" seat height if you've only a 29" inside leg. Which by the way is my seat height and my inside leg measurement.:D So, am I a Hendon shuffler? Well yes on occasions I am, why? because there are occasions when for me it is not only easier but safer. In most instances it's not difficult to see or feel which way the bike is going to naturally tip when I come to a stop, so for me it's that foot that comes down, sometimes it's the left sometimes it's the right. If I need to come down on my left foot then shift the weight of the bike onto the right then so be it, in my opinion I'm stopping on the leg that is giving me most control. Does this affect my standard of riding? I don't believe so, but if someone can point out a better way I'm always receptive to suggestions.

Other than buying a bike you're tall enough to ride, you mean?

Must-Be-This-Tall-to-Ride.png


:hide
 
Other than buying a bike you're tall enough to ride, you mean?

Must-Be-This-Tall-to-Ride.png


:hide

Tall enough to ride it, just a little challenged when it comes to stopping. having said that, I don't have a problem with it and rather than follow a set of rules I've developed my own technique which appears to work very well.;)
 
Chaps,

This perennial topic clearly “fires up” a few folk, & every single BikeSafe course I’ve delivered brings forth this question, so I thought I’d weigh in with my two ha’porth.

Whilst there have been a number of views presented, & often there is no single “right way, the thing that is rarely discussed is WHY the Hendon Shuffle or Two Step was once very important, & why today it isn't.

I started my private motorcycling in 1969, & first rode Police motorcycles in 1973, becoming a Class 1 in 1974. At that time the Triumph 650cc Saint was pretty much the national standard, along with a smattering of 650cc BSA’s, & the then new Norton Commando Interpol’s were starting to win customers in Police fleets.

From the early 1960’s onwards the British manufacturers had started to change their drum front brakes from single leading shoe to twin leading shoe format ( TLS ), which gives a much better braking performance from speed; what it does not do is give any real braking effect when the bike is moving backwards.

Before someone pipes up with “I haven’t got reverse gear on my bike, you ought to be on the Gold Wing forum”, this becomes relevant if the motorcycle is stationary on an up slope. The rider would come to a halt, be holding the front brake on as hard as he could, but the bike would slowly move backwards. The rear brakes however, were almost invariably of the 1 leading/1 trailing shoe format, so worked equally well forwards or backwards.

If the rider came to halt on a slope, placed his bike in neutral, then placed his gear foot down, he could then hold the bike comfortably & safely on the rear brake, until the time came to move off, when he performed the required dance steps, & off he went.

Bear in mind this was the early 70’s, so the Police rider was always “a he”, & also, just to further confuse, we were at that time in the process of going over from the traditional British style right-side gear change to the now universal left-side.

In 1976 my Force, Gloucestershire, changed over to BMW’s - 75/6’s - & many other Forces opted for the Commando Interpol, but one thing they had in common was that both these machines were equipped with front disc brakes. They were nowhere near as good as the brakes we take for granted today, but they did, of course, work equally well in either direction.

Our Regional Driving School took the view that the “shuffle” was no longer needed, so the rider could come to a halt, snick into neutral, but place his back brake foot down, leaving his “gear foot” on the foot peg ready for the off.

I have to say I had forgotten the real reason for the “shuffle” until a few years ago when I rode an old drum braked BMW R75/5 around the Cotswolds, equipped as standard with a TLS front brake. I came to a “Give Way” line on a steep upward slope, came to a smooth halt, then had a hells’ own job holding the plot upright as gravity kicked in, & back she tried to roll. Then I remembered.............

I would point out that the camber & state of the road are most important, & when IAM Testing I look for the candidate to show that they are in control of their machine, & they can use which ever foot they wish, as long as they are comfortable & the machine is stable. That's it - quite simple, really.

If carrying a pillion & luggage, or in adverse weather, with high winds, even worse if those winds are gusting, I may well place both feet down, & of course linked- or semi-linked brakes just muddy the waters a little more.

I do like to keep a wary eye on my mirrors, to see what’s approaching me whilst I am stationary, ready for evasive action, so perhaps we can start a new thread of “How close should I stop to the car in front?”.

Just my thoughts, you may differ. Now, what oil should you use ??? :rob
 


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