Vosages and Black Forest in a day?

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I have my GPS device set up to display estimated arrival time and remaining distance to destination all the time. It’s interesting to watch the mileage left reduce by every mile you move forward but the time to arrive change (sometimes quite dramatically) as the day progresses.

Me too, always a good maxim on the old 2610
 
I find a lot of people have unrealistic distances/time algorithms when riding the mountains or just twisty roads in say, the Borders

They set a well chosen and lovingly crafted route in the GPS and then believe it, only to find the eta at destination ebbing away faster than you can drink an expresso

Me, take a map and have it in front of you on the tank ALWAYS

Look at it and if time evaporates, quickly sack off your route and re-plan using a map

All good fun, this foreign touring malarkey

Takes years to hone skills, as to what works and doesn't
 
I have my GPS device set up to display estimated arrival time and remaining distance to destination all the time. It’s interesting to watch the mileage left reduce by every mile you move forward but the time to arrive change (sometimes quite dramatically) as the day progresses.


Wapping is spot on this is a game saver, just remember also to set your bikes clock to 1 hour forward then you will have local times until you get back to the UK, I always change clocks once on the Ferry or Chunnel train.
 
I disagree

I was talking a journey average for route planning purposes at 20mph for Alpine routes and traversing
Not set in tablets of stone - just a rough guess from 30 years of touring abroad and includes stopping for snacks,getting stuck behind dawdling traffic/looking at awesome views and picture taking

Mountain riding is not just simply getting from A to B

My times do not count stops, I suspect your were, I never advise on averages including stops as how often and how long to stop is a very individual thing as covered by others in this thread.

I work on an average of 15 minutes stopped for every hour riding and allow an extra 30-45 minutes for the lunch stop, making my preferred ride times between 5 and 6 hours (7-8 hours total) this gives a relaxing day / time to deal with unexpected delays / time to stop if we come across something interesting. This seems to work out very accurate FOR ME, as stated by JohnnyBoxer, it takes years to hone this.

My speeds are based on 10 years European touring and from of Sat-Nav data, I always log the miles and averages for each day, as Wapping states people travel at very different paces, but I have ridden solo / two up / on "Lads" trips / With the Mrs on her bike / in groups of varying abilities and found the speeds do not vary much from the centre line of those averages. The stop times vary massively, on some trips I have had to re-plan half my routes to make them shorter for travelling buddies who cannot do a quick fuel stop in less than 45 minutes and require 2 hours for lunch. (solo travelling does help avoid this)

The sa-nav tip is great, I also use this, you can see the estimated arrival and know how much planned stoppage you have (like lunch) to add on to give a rough ETA, if this slips back too much you need to speed up / stop less, if it is getting shorter you can have that extra cuppa, or often I find if the weather is great and I am having a good day I might not care about getting there an hour later - but only because I avoid planning a 12 hour ride in the 1st place.
 
My times do not count stops, I suspect your were, I never advise on averages including stops as how often and how long to stop is a very individual thing as covered by others in this thread.

I work on an average of 15 minutes stopped for every hour riding and allow an extra 30-45 minutes for the lunch stop, making my preferred ride times between 5 and 6 hours (7-8 hours total) this gives a relaxing day / time to deal with unexpected delays / time to stop if we come across something interesting. This seems to work out very accurate FOR ME, as stated by JohnnyBoxer, it takes years to hone this.

My speeds are based on 10 years European touring and from of Sat-Nav data, I always log the miles and averages for each day, as Wapping states people travel at very different paces, but I have ridden solo / two up / on "Lads" trips / With the Mrs on her bike / in groups of varying abilities and found the speeds do not vary much from the centre line of those averages.

The sa-nav tip is great, I also use this, you can see the estimated arrival and know how much planned stoppage you have (like lunch) to add on to give a rough ETA, if this slips back too much you need to speed up / stop less, if it is getting shorter you can have that extra cuppa, or often I find if the weather is great and I am having a good day I might not care about getting there an hour later - but only because I avoid planning a 12 hour ride in the 1st place.

Fair enough, mine did include all the things like gawping at the view, an average of 1 morning and afternoon stop and a short lunch, getting stuck behind traffic, taking pics - spread over an average 8 hour day's ride
Mine isn't as scientific as yours, as I don't use a GPS much...............but still reasonably accurate based on experience and watching others get over ambitious with distances
 
Fair enough, mine did include all the things like gawping at the view, an average of 1 morning and afternoon stop and a short lunch, getting stuck behind traffic, taking pics - spread over an average 8 hour day's ride
Mine isn't as scientific as yours, as I don't use a GPS much...............but still reasonably accurate based on experience and watching others get over ambitious with distances

Done that over ambitious trick once, ended up missing the ferry.
 
I always log the miles and averages for each day..... I work on an average of 15 minutes stopped for every hour riding and allow an extra 30-45 minutes for the lunch stop, making my preferred ride times between 5 and 6 hours (7-8 hours total) this gives a relaxing day / time to deal with unexpected delays / time to stop if we come across something interesting. This seems to work out very accurate FOR ME

Me, too.

For a simple example, I knew (could estimate) that if we - four of us - left Bouillon in the Belgian Ardennes at about 08:30 on Monday morning, we could take the main roads (not every goat track) to Charleville-Mézières, skirt C-M for a short hop on the motorway, then hit the good - fast - French D roads to Liart for a coffee stop. Then get back on the good - fast - D roads up to St Quentin for an early lunch and fuel, parking in the middle of the town. Then pick up the motorway all the way to Calais, to arrive at the Chunnel gates at 14:15 in good time for a 15:30 train. Had I been booked on say the 18:30 train instead of the 15:30, I / we could have done it near enough by taking D roads all the way (except for skirting C-M) probably going via Peronne for lunch and fuel, instead of St Q. Three hours extra makes a huge difference.

Cut your cloth accordingly.
 
The only record I have of miles ridden, average speed and time etc are taken from the bike trip computer when I finally put it in the garage after getting home and most trips extending to more than a week I tend to average somewhere around 55mph moving average. Ok, I always have a quick look when I fill the bike and if I’ve been forced to ride in a city while looking for a hotel or if I’ve been on a mountain pass that drops but day by day it’s usually around that 55mph area meaning 300 miles is easy after allowing for fuel or drink stops.

This is where my system of not bothering to plan ahead regarding hotels works really well because it means I never have to push harder to get somewhere and if I end up further into my trip than I’d originally thought would be the case when I set off in the morning then that’s a bonus.
 
Me, too.

For a simple example, I knew (could estimate) that if we - four of us - left Bouillon in the Belgian Ardennes at about 08:30 on Monday morning, we could take the main roads (not every goat track) to Charleville-Mézières, skirt C-M for a short hop on the motorway, then hit the good - fast - French D roads to Liart for a coffee stop. Then get back on the good - fast - D roads up to St Quentin for an early lunch and fuel, parking in the middle of the town. Then pick up the motorway all the way to Calais, to arrive at the Chunnel gates at 14:15 in good time for a 15:30 train. Had I been booked on say the 18:30 train instead of the 15:30, I / we could have done it near enough by taking D roads all the way (except for skirting C-M) probably going via Peronne for lunch and fuel, instead of St Q. Three hours extra makes a huge difference.

Cut your cloth accordingly.



I always find that you are so precise
 
The part you cannot factor in, is the finding a nice place, meeting some friendly people, look across the road, see a hotel and say I might as well stay for the night, I enjoy that more.
 
Hi after a little advice, meeting up with friends in Belgium for a weekend, after which I have 3 days off and must be back in work in the UK by Thursday. I intend to ride down to the Vosages staying over night in Saint-Dié-des-Vosges Sunday night. Then riding the Vosages (Route des Crepes) North to South to Cernay(ish) and then the Black Forest South to North (B500 ish) on Monday. I am flexible on routes but not on times.
Is the Vosages and Black Forest doable in a day or am I pushing it? I have been caught out before overestimating times on my route planning!
You could, but why would you. Lots to enjoy in either place.

BTW I lived in Alsace for three years, but never came across the pancake road.;) If you get bored with it try the Route des Crêtes:thumb2
 
You could, but why would you. Lots to enjoy in either place.

BTW I lived in Alsace for three years, but never came across the pancake road.;) If you get bored with it try the Route des Crêtes:thumb2

ca va Stolzy en sait que tu etait par ici, par contre si y,avez un route des crepes, c,est surement vers St Brieuc :p
 
The part you cannot factor in, is the finding a nice place, meeting some friendly people, look across the road, see a hotel and say I might as well stay for the night, I enjoy that more.

That’s why when I’m on my own I never make fixed plans. If you’re in a group there’s usually one who either wants to stop earlier or press on for another hour and I really can’t be bothered with that just the same as I’m more than capable of getting through the day on just cups of coffee and a quick sandwich when I fill up with fuel whereas others will want a full meal at lunchtime.
 
Look at it and if time evaporates, quickly sack off your route and re-plan using a map


I'm getting worried about you Johnny ..... last week you were sacking off the builder, and now it's your route ...

:eek:
 
That’s why when I’m on my own I never make fixed plans. If you’re in a group there’s usually one who either wants to stop earlier or press on for another hour and I really can’t be bothered with that just the same as I’m more than capable of getting through the day on just cups of coffee and a quick sandwich when I fill up with fuel whereas others will want a full meal at lunchtime.

The beauty of independance, bit brexit like.............
 
Thanks fellas my question answered in true UKGSER eloquence. Couldn't understand what all the Pancake fuss was about? Thanks Stolzy lol :blast I suppose it shows one mans average speed over distance is often different to another's for many differing factors. Wapping hit the nail, I only really know the answer myself so a bit of a rhetorical question really.
 
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