new battery goosed ?

DR268 · Apr 9, 2018

fitted a new Exide 12-19 gel 2 weeks ago

connected the CTEC mxs 3.8 and left it

went out to start it tonight and it just about started, very lazy. went so low it cleared the clock to zero

went for a 10 mile run and checked it with a multimeter. 13.8v when running so its charging ok.
drops to 13.2v when just switched off

plugged the charger back in and it raises the volts slightly so assume it is charging

I will check the voltage again tomorrow to see what has happened overnight and if it starts

Any ideas or is it simply a dud batttery ?

thanks

wessie · Apr 9, 2018

what were the symptoms that led to you changing the battery?

Perhaps the original battery was not faulty and you have a problem with the starter motor or associated circuitry e.g. solenoid, wiring?

topcat2006 · Apr 9, 2018

Check the starter motor - the grease cover can work loose and short out leading to sluggish starting. Also the magnets can work loose inside the starter.

Deleted account 191119001 · Apr 9, 2018

Batteries are a lottery, send it back for warranty, no use pissing around.

DR268 · Apr 9, 2018

wessie said:
what were the symptoms that led to you changing the battery?

Perhaps the original battery was not faulty and you have a problem with the starter motor or associated circuitry e.g. solenoid, wiring?

I had the bike connected to the same charger for 12 weeks,

bike started ok everytime I gave it a go in the garage

went out for a ride for the first time 3 weeks ago no issues but didnt connect the charger overnight

next day it was lazy and failed to start, put jump leads on and she fired ok, started ok all day when out

so assumed the battery was on its way out and bought a new one

not too sure now

DR268 · Apr 9, 2018

topcat2006 said:
Check the starter motor - the grease cover can work loose and short out leading to sluggish starting. Also the magnets can work loose inside the starter.

I will do this, just in case

cheers

wessie · Apr 9, 2018

DR268 said:
I had the bike connected to the same charger for 12 weeks,

bike started ok everytime I gave it a go in the garage

went out for a ride for the first time 3 weeks ago no issues but didnt connect the charger overnight

next day it was lazy and failed to start, put jump leads on and she fired ok, started ok all day when out

so assumed the battery was on its way out and bought a new one

not too sure now

do you only get lazy starting when cold? If so, this is typical of resistance in the circuit that was overcome by the added current from the jump leads. When things warm up, the expansion might overcome the resistance, especially dodgy earths or worn contacts in the starter.

DR268 · Apr 9, 2018

wessie said:
do you only get lazy starting when cold? If so, this is typical of resistance in the circuit that was overcome by the added current from the jump leads. When things warm up, the expansion might overcome the resistance, especially dodgy earths or worn contacts in the starter.

with the old battery it was only lazy if it hadn't been on the charger beforehand

took me by surprise tonight, certainly wasn't happy

need to see what happens tomorrow, but will check the voltage before turning it over,

I will probably pull the starter off either way and see what its like

Steptoe · Apr 10, 2018

Leave if off the battery charger overnight and then measure the voltage.

DR268 · Apr 10, 2018

Steptoe said:
Leave if off the battery charger overnight and then measure the voltage.

just went out and checked it

after overnight on trickle charger

12.8 volts ignition off
12.3 ignition on (lights etc on)

started engine no problem
shows 14.1 volts at 1500 rpm

turned choke off a bit early and it stalled
really lazy to turn over but did start
wiped my clock again

I will leave it all day with no charger attached as Steptoe suggests

To me its pointing to a starter motor issue
Bike has 47000 miles and I bet its the original

After searching it seems its a Valeo D6RA75 which seems a fairly common model in the car world
can I go down the local motor factors and order one up (roughly £60) or is there a hidden catch I'm missing out on

prices vary wildly, £50 to £180 when I google it

I know they can be split cleaned etc but a new one would be nice in the old girl. (if its £60)

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gog · Apr 10, 2018

The starter motors are really very easy to take apart and inspect/clean. I suspect £60 will buy you an aftermarket one, not made by Valeo, of possibly questionable quality.

Get the casing off and check that the magnets inside are still all securely attached. If theyre broken or detached its new starter time. Often though they are just gunked up and a clean fixes it. You can buy replacement brush kits from motorworks if those are knackered. The grease plate inside can come unstuck as previously mentioned and cause shorting, youll see evidence of burning if it has. If its loose but not holed, it can just be 're-peened' in place with a soldering iron.

Cyrus · Apr 10, 2018

I finally plucked up the courage to inspect my starter motor internals as per the excellent advice found here on UKGSer. The grease plate was fine but the magnets had dissolved into powder apart from a couple of small bits still adhereing to the casing. Amazingly it still started, although with a load of effort.

Unwilling to buy a new, budget starter I went for an original recon exchange unit from Motorworks. The reason was the thin and failure-prone casting at just the wrong place, as exposed on UKGSer. I have no complaints about the exchange unit at all.

DR268 · Apr 10, 2018

Steptoe said:
Leave if off the battery charger overnight and then measure the voltage.

left it 8 hours, battery read 13 volts, so seems good

but tried starter, chrurned over for 2 seconds, then solenoid clicks so no go

it wiped the clock again to zero

voltage then read 12.8 v

starter off time

Slipperyeel · Apr 10, 2018

Just seen this thread. My first thought was the starter, just like the others. As Gog says, easy job to service the motor. But if it was as you say, then a recon motor is a good idea.

Is it behaving now?

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Wizards-Online · Apr 10, 2018

This sounds like the solution to my starting issues too. If I leave it on the trickle charger all night it starts in the morning, though pretty lazy. But leaving work tonight it cleared the clock, though that's not normal.
Whenever I connect the BMW charger it always goes straight to red and takes an hour or so before working up through Amber to green. Is that normal????

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Jersey_GS · Apr 10, 2018

Here is my view and it may well be incorrect, however it works for me.

A bike battery usually lasts around 3 years maybe 4 if you are lucky. by which time it starts showing signs of not holding charge.

i recently changed my Odyessy for a Motobatt because of symptoms stated above. The Odyssey lasted me 4 years and i think that is because i never left it permanently on charge.

If i don't use the bike for a period of time say a week or two, I will stick the Ctek on it until the fully charge light comes on which usually takes 15 - 20 min then remove the charger.
I only do this just before using the bike or the day before.

This way you can get a feel for the state of your battery when it starts taking longer to charge.

Although the charger manufacturers state they can be left permanently on, i don't think it does the battery any good long term.

Sorry this does not resolve Dr268's power issues but general battery care advice.

Slipperyeel · Apr 10, 2018

I have never used a charger... But the longest I'd have ever left the bike with no use might be a month while in Asia. Even then it always started on the button.

Not sure what this days, except maybe that using it (the bike as well) regularly is the solution

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DR268 · Apr 10, 2018

Starter off and stripped

few obvious issues

what length are the brushes meant to be ?
mine are as seen 15mm ish long, does this have any effect on the starter working properly ?

the grease plate thing has detached and although not holed through it has been arcing and its like a banana
leave it out ?

the magnets are dirty although complete and not loose
cleaned up easily so one handy one

thoughts overall,
is this serious enough to cause my starting issues ?

DR268 · Apr 10, 2018

more pics

gog · Apr 11, 2018

I would say that would be enough to cause a problem! you may have got away with it though. clean it all properly, regrease the gears, straighten the grease plate and 'peen' it back in place. a soldering iron should be able to melt wee bits of the plastic surround over so it holds the plate in place securely.

I (being an optimist) would bet that cures the problem.

Plenty of meat on those brushes IMO.

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