Hilltop
- Thread starter otruk
- Start date
Boom Boom...
Sent from a U11
Sent from a U11
I added some WD40 bike polish to the bodywork of my 1190 yesterday, should I call the insurer to let them know, I am now concerned in the event of an accident they will send a sample of my bodywork to a lab for analysis and uncover my lies about not modifying it.
Being serious, a huge problem with insurance is they really are shite at analysing risk, a middle aged bloke wants his bike to run a bit smoother and they shit themselves, for example you might declare a remap on a CBR600 which nets you 3BHP, and they increase your premium beyond what the want for a Fireblade.
Having added a bike to the stable and wanting it insured for the Mrs I had to use my NCD for this bike, so my 1190 price quadrupled when my current insurer removed the NCD - what had changed to make me four times more risky the day after this insurance change? same rider, same bike, plus with another bike to use less mileage on said bike.
I used to declare everything on my S10, from the Wilburs shocks down to the USB power socket and World Crosser sticker set, I even said the exhaust may addd more than 10% power, I knew it did not and had dyno graphs to prove this, but f*** 'em, why give them any reason to not pay out.
The problem I have is most folk make such mods without telling them, so when you call up with a list of 20+ "modifications" they assume you must be some lunatic and want to whack your premium up. If every rider declared their Hilltop / Power Commander / Sheepskin etc they would have to be more competitive with modifications, and maybe would realise everyone modifies their bikes and stop being so difficult with modified bikes.
I am not convinced they would look at the ECU code after an accident, but it is technically correct they should be informed....
...as they should because of every single little change you make to your bike right down to a sticker on it (might make it stand out and be more attractive to a thief they could argue)
Being serious, a huge problem with insurance is they really are shite at analysing risk, a middle aged bloke wants his bike to run a bit smoother and they shit themselves, for example you might declare a remap on a CBR600 which nets you 3BHP, and they increase your premium beyond what the want for a Fireblade.
Having added a bike to the stable and wanting it insured for the Mrs I had to use my NCD for this bike, so my 1190 price quadrupled when my current insurer removed the NCD - what had changed to make me four times more risky the day after this insurance change? same rider, same bike, plus with another bike to use less mileage on said bike.
I used to declare everything on my S10, from the Wilburs shocks down to the USB power socket and World Crosser sticker set, I even said the exhaust may addd more than 10% power, I knew it did not and had dyno graphs to prove this, but f*** 'em, why give them any reason to not pay out.
The problem I have is most folk make such mods without telling them, so when you call up with a list of 20+ "modifications" they assume you must be some lunatic and want to whack your premium up. If every rider declared their Hilltop / Power Commander / Sheepskin etc they would have to be more competitive with modifications, and maybe would realise everyone modifies their bikes and stop being so difficult with modified bikes.
I am not convinced they would look at the ECU code after an accident, but it is technically correct they should be informed....
...as they should because of every single little change you make to your bike right down to a sticker on it (might make it stand out and be more attractive to a thief they could argue)
Back (almost) on topic, having seen people claiming the figures are fiddled I remembered I had my old ZZR1400 on two dyno's, originally on a Dynojet locally and later on Hilltops old dyno.
In a moment of slack at work I dug out the results, on the original dyno it showed 171BHP before remap (Power Commander) and 174BHP After (Main gain was from removal of secondary butterflies which gave 40% increase in low down torque by removing restrictions)
I later wanted rid of the Power Commander and went to Hilltop who also made other claims about individual cylinder / gear mappings, like a lot of folk I really have no idea what they did, but I do have the numbers and my arse dyno.
On arrival at Hilltop it showed 162 BHP, so had either lost a dozen pony's or Hilltops Dyno was lower reading than the Dynojet (more likely) Geoff also noticed the Power Commander was not making any changes, so it looked like the last guy to work on it had forgotten to save the changes back to the unit, so Hilltops 162 is probably compared to the original 171 - 5% variation between different dyno's on different days at different mileages is reasonable.
Once Geoff had finished I had a marginal gain of 4BHP up to 166BHP, some might say a waste of money, but I had safe fuelling (with the flies removed they could run very lean uncorrected) a small improvement in power and what was a noticeable smoother engine, less vibes through pegs and more even tickover. I had also manage to ditch the Power Commander which meant one less thing to go wrong and some extra space under the seat.
If anyone else wants to test this "fiddled run" theory all they have to do is go to a local dyno centre and pay for a quick power check before visiting Hilltop, then go back after Hilltop and get another test done.
In a moment of slack at work I dug out the results, on the original dyno it showed 171BHP before remap (Power Commander) and 174BHP After (Main gain was from removal of secondary butterflies which gave 40% increase in low down torque by removing restrictions)
I later wanted rid of the Power Commander and went to Hilltop who also made other claims about individual cylinder / gear mappings, like a lot of folk I really have no idea what they did, but I do have the numbers and my arse dyno.
On arrival at Hilltop it showed 162 BHP, so had either lost a dozen pony's or Hilltops Dyno was lower reading than the Dynojet (more likely) Geoff also noticed the Power Commander was not making any changes, so it looked like the last guy to work on it had forgotten to save the changes back to the unit, so Hilltops 162 is probably compared to the original 171 - 5% variation between different dyno's on different days at different mileages is reasonable.
Once Geoff had finished I had a marginal gain of 4BHP up to 166BHP, some might say a waste of money, but I had safe fuelling (with the flies removed they could run very lean uncorrected) a small improvement in power and what was a noticeable smoother engine, less vibes through pegs and more even tickover. I had also manage to ditch the Power Commander which meant one less thing to go wrong and some extra space under the seat.
If anyone else wants to test this "fiddled run" theory all they have to do is go to a local dyno centre and pay for a quick power check before visiting Hilltop, then go back after Hilltop and get another test done.
Something fervently to be wished for; if for no other reason than to stop these threads once and for all.
Never will they stop ... it’s like a recurring nightmare ....
But I’ve sold my soul to the devil... and I’m going on Saturday
The noise you are hearing, that's hell freezing over.
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Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
As I’ve got used to my GS LC coming from the 2010 model, I’m sure I’m right in saying that the ECU is perking up the more I ride it?
Usually as you get used to a bike, it feels like its losing power in comparison to when you had your first go…
The bloke I bought it off may have been quote a steady rider, whereas I, coming from ZZR’s and race bikes, probably use it to its limits… and I’m convinced its getting better every time I ride the thing? (done about 800 miles on it now)..
So does the ECU learn your riding style, adapting and varying what it does to the way you ride?
Or is that all tosh??.. cleaver if it does...
Do Hill Top use this in some way??
Usually as you get used to a bike, it feels like its losing power in comparison to when you had your first go…
The bloke I bought it off may have been quote a steady rider, whereas I, coming from ZZR’s and race bikes, probably use it to its limits… and I’m convinced its getting better every time I ride the thing? (done about 800 miles on it now)..
So does the ECU learn your riding style, adapting and varying what it does to the way you ride?
Or is that all tosh??.. cleaver if it does...
Do Hill Top use this in some way??
I did offer to pay the costs of BSD (measure only) and Hilltop (same day) on the proviso that if the Hilltop pre numbers were significantly lower, then others cover both charges - there's enough supporters on here that you'd have thought it a simple....
The wankfest is back on..............
I thought it was established (and you acknowledged) that it was a poor idea?
Although correction factors should equal things out like atmospheric pressure and temperature, altitude etc.
Some dyno's read higher than others, from memory of an article by the late great John Robertson of motorcycle mechanics and Performance bikes fame, the Motad dyno was most consistent.
You're try to compare apples with shellfish. It isn't the peak horsepower that counts, but the area underneath the graphline, it'll give you a better idea of flexibility and driveability which is of far more importance on the road, than some of the drivel spouted here.
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Never will they stop ... it’s like a recurring nightmare ....
But I’ve sold my soul to the devil... and I’m going on Saturday
You will not regret if you manage your expectations. No altering of the air, and or fuel ratio is going give you 15 to 20bhp gain. What it will achieve is marginally more power, remove flat spots and make the bike smoother. Also bear in mind a mudsling is £120 for a bit of plastic. With every mile you ride and the longer you keep the bike makes Hilltop cheaper.
You should get more power (and torque), but it will be in the low-midrange..............
Those are the areas which will make the biggest difference to road-riders.
I completely agree with that comment - unfortunately it is the BHP increase graphs that attract bods, me (previously) included.
Again, don't get me wrong - the bike was better, but not anywhere near what the dyno sheet Hilltop presented.
My original suggestion wasn't the best - however, if we really wish to establish whether Hilltop can deliver the increase claims it should be too difficult to agree a protocol?
I've said it before, but this discussion gets more like one about alternative medicine every time its resurrected.
We're now discussing softer and softer end points, not BHP, but elimination of 'flat spots', 'low/mid range torque', 'smoother'.
Please keep it coming
We're now discussing softer and softer end points, not BHP, but elimination of 'flat spots', 'low/mid range torque', 'smoother'.
Please keep it coming
I've said it before, but this discussion gets more like one about alternative medicine every time its resurrected.
We're now discussing softer and softer end points, not BHP, but elimination of 'flat spots', 'low/mid range torque', 'smoother'.
Please keep it coming
Exactly
Which is why you have to have it done. Its bit like sex with slightly different emotions.
Try explaining sex to a virgin
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