Sudden top end noise

simonsGSA

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Out for a gentle ride today. After about 5 miles I suddenly noticed what sounds like a tappet noise coming from right side of engine. Came straight home gently. Whilst I wait for the engine to cool here is what I have found...

'08 R1200GSA - 35K miles
seems related to engine speed
no difference clutch in or out or in gear
seems to come from top end on right hand side
came on very suddenly at low speed.
regularly serviced (though its due one now/soon)
oil looks OK

My first steps will be valve clearances and rocker end float. i have seen some reports of failing push rods but not sure if this applies to 1200s?

Other than that, anything else I should check, cam chain tensioners maybe? But it does sound more tappetty than chainy if that makes sense?
 
Just had this with a 1200 GS, cured with attention to detail getting rocker endfloat at minimum and valves spot on then oil and filter change. Old oil was watery thin and filthy, bike has suspect service history. With new oil and filter and throttle balance spot on it ran nicely.

These engines are prone to rattle when oil gets hot and thin, had a spate of this in 2005/6 with my own bike, BMW’s answer was to go to 20W50 oil from 10W40.


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Just been through clearances and rocker endfloat. One exhaust valve seemed a bit too large.

Interestingly, when using the 6th gear and rotating back wheel method of getting to TDC, I notice a really load click at about 50% compression of the exhaust valves. having a cup of tea to decide if I should dig deeper or put it together and see if its improved....
 
Interestingly, when using the 6th gear and rotating back wheel method of getting to TDC, I notice a really load click at about 50% compression of the exhaust valves. having a cup of tea to decide if I should dig deeper or put it together and see if its improved....

Ignore it. It's the cam chain/ tensioner doing its stuff at hand turning speed
 
Phew... Thanks.. I was about to tear off the RH head! All back together now and sounds sweet again. Odd that it was ok then suddenly sounded noisy...

Thanks all for the input.
 
In the spate of 2 weeks, there have been a plethora of noise issues / rattles clanks topend or otherwise posted..

what has changed to make this a sudden spike...

Only thing i can think of, is its very hot at the moment 28 -30c and this is a big oil aircooled lump

One had oil with dubious history, and one is due its service date..

Coincidence? / seasonal / normal distribution or just a blip?
 
Air cooled boxers run best on 20W50 in hotter climates. Thin oil makes them rattle/knock and can even bring on a low oil pressure light at tick-over.

At the moment, that’s exactly what we have.


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I agree, was out on my GSA TC on Sunday and definitely thought it sounded a bit more top end rattly......10W40 in it!
 
Mine when caught in London City traffic last summer sounded and felt like a bag of spanners. There was no oil light to scare me even more but it really wasn’t happy.
 
Mine is due a service so maybe the oil is getting a little tired,....

If it’s quiet when cool and rattles when hot then almost certainly your oil is tired and losing viscosity as the long chain molecules break down under heat, shear and pressure.


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These engines are prone to rattle when oil gets hot and thin, had a spate of this in 2005/6 with my own bike, BMW’s answer was to go to 20W50 oil from 10W40

Not being funny but the literature for these engines when we were preparing the bikes for first release for March 2004 was 20W50

it was only later that they changed spec to fully synth and then back to 20W50

Funnily enough the foreman was a bit worried as the dealer I worked for didn't have a deal with shell on 20W50 and the bikes all got Shell 15W40 semi synth .....
 
Not doubting that for a moment Dr F, but at the time my local agent SPC Motorrad (who subsequently folded amidst tax dodging rumours)serviced my then new ‘04 R1200GS with Castrol 10W40. I recall seeing it on the invoice.

Once I had the hot rattle issue they changed to 20W50 under warranty after raising the issue with BMW and the hot rattle problem was no more.


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I thought it was a weird thing to go from 20 50 to fully synth myself "but" who am I to wonder "Why?"

I did think that since It was the time of the crash and money was being hoarded rather than spent , I think BMW thought it might have been a way to improve "turnover" quickly

As usual some wanker in a suit trying to justify their existance

Not doubting that for a moment Dr F, but at the time my local agent SPC Motorrad (who subsequently folded amidst tax dodging rumours)serviced my then new ‘04 R1200GS with Castrol 10W40. I recall seeing it on the invoice.

Once I had the hot rattle issue they changed to 20W50 under warranty after raising the issue with BMW and the hot rattle problem was no more.


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When it's hot it's the bigger number that's important, but mine has always been ok with 10w40. To be fair, hot 20w50 is not that much thicker than hot 10w40.

Maybe we should be using a 15w50 like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mobil-1-...348221&hash=item41e5d1e10e:g:0I8AAOSwIphbMo0f

It's relatively cheap at Halfords: https://www.halfords.com/motoring/motorcycling/motorcycle-oils/mobil-1-racing-4t-15w-50-4l there have been, however, two versions of this oil, with the later version meeting JASO MA2 (irrelevant for a dry-cluth motorcycle) but going town to API SH in the process. I'm currently using a Petronas 15W50 which has no JASO rating but meets API SL. https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/...ineoils/15w50-engine-oil/?521773002&0&cc5_776 I've done the Welsh and ACU national rallies using it, both on hot days, with no knocks or rattles.
 
I run my current '08 GSA on Chevron 10W40 semi-synth and its fine when hot, but I change my oil early at every service so it never gets old or out of grade.

Arriving in Rouen in 30+ degrees recently to be met with delays and diversions, it ran a little bit noisily in heavy city traffic but otherwise okay but I think 20W50 would have helped. The temp gauge was at max bars and I had to stop the engine at traffic lights. The GSA LC's with me had their fans cycling like mad. My oil and filter had done about 1500 miles as it was changed immediately before the trip started. I reckon if my oil had been old it would have ran much worse and I suspect it is this which causes folk to have noisy engines as their old sump oil is getting thin.

I have used Castrol Power1 Racing 10W50 fully synth in the past but it is expensive overkill for my GSA, the Chevron 10W40 semi-synth I have used for years is about £43 for a 20 Litre bulk drum in Costco. Thats aroung a tenner an oil change, not including filter. No excuse for changing it regularly.
 
I agree the racing 10w50 is overkill, especially as the engine is specced for 20w50 mineral oil. But it will be more stable at high temperatures which can only damage the lower spec oils.

Mine runs fine on Comma semi synth 10w40, so why spend more on fancy brands?
 


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