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Aren’t monoblocs supposed to offer superior performance to two piece construction? Why is this?
1250 brake calipers
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The bike tested was the HP, i.e BMW racing colors with gold colored rims, and it had very low miles that required gentle handling of the engine. There were also a long list of test riders, so only limited time for each of us.
Basically it's an -18 with new paint and new heads. Suspension is slightly improved yet again, probably improved shocks and software. Allegedly the geometry is unchanged. The engine behaved quite "sweet", with an improved pull at lower rpm. Due to the bike being so new I did not try test the top end. The initial feeling did not provide a dramatic wow, rather the feeling of riding the next step of the evolution. No vibration or jerking. But even so, it runs lean, aimed to meet Euro-5. I don't think Hiltop and AF-XIED will loose their marked.
The sound from the engine has been commented already, quite frankly it reminded me of the sound of the 1200 LC, noise level as well as any other aspect. May be there is a difference at higher RPM, which I did not try.
The brakes worked great, they gave a more distinct bite than previous models.
The key question, is upgrading to the 1250 worth it? A friend of mine has a loaded -18 GSA. He did not want to upgrade yet, and I agree. My self, owner of a -15 GSA, to me, upgrading will be done. I'm waiting for the GSA though. But my plans are to enter the -19 season with a -19 GSA...
As for the engine and higher HP such as the KTM and Ducati offers, my personal view is: forget it. The boxer was and will continue to be the master of low end and mid range torque. For higher RPMs, the boxer will not be the way to go, unless you go to 4 cyl. The two jugs with their reciprocal movement pumps too much air in and out of the crankcase. No matter what technology is being applied, a V-twin will always be able to do even more. But even the 1200 LC offers way more power than yours truly is able to handle, so my only reason for upgrading is, as is probably the case for most of us, because I want one. I enjoy the torque, it is so well suited to my favorite roads
Nice report and to the point, and agree if your bike is 2015 and you can afford to upgrade, why not as the new 3 year warranty, and hopefully an extra year extended, is worth it, obviously the different engine is all down to how fast you need to go, or how much pulling power you need, I find my 2017 GS plenty and fully loaded it pulls like a train, sports bikes are a thing of the past for me, way in the past, as soon as I got a Harley, I forgot about speed and enjoyed the ride.
I may be on thin ice here, but I will try to explain the difference the way I have understood it.
A monoblock caliper is, as the name implies made from a solid block of metal, while most calipers with pistions on both sides are made of two blocks, one for each brake pad, and held together with bolts. It's cheaper this way since the holes for the pistions needs to be machined.
When you apply the brakes the pistions counter-force will force each side of the caliper away from each other. On a monoblock, the two halves are held together with all the metal in the section between the two halves, while on a regular caliper, the load is carried through the bolts only.
If you brake hard and observe the caliper, on a regular caliper you will be able to see that the house is being twisted slightly as the pressure will force the sides away from each other, while a monoblock caliper keeps it's shape better. This means that you get a bit mushy feeling when braking hard on a regular caliper, compared to the monoblock which holds it's shape better. In practical use this means that on a none-ABS bike (read racing) it is easier for the rider to apply exact force to the brake and keep it on the edge between locking/nonlocking. On an ABS bike you will not benefit from this advantage as the ABS system will kick in.
The relevance in this case, and what remains to bee seen, is that even if the latest brakes feels like having a better bite, they might offer a more mushy feeling than the monoblocks of the past.
Knut good review...
TORQUE is king and of use 90% of the time but top-end like an S1000XR is exiting and gives you a rush that makes riding exiting as Ducati 1260MS and 1290 KTM don't feel really torquey down low or even chug the chain and the top-end is not really that powerful and at 10K rpm the rev-limiter hits hard while real superbikes give you a rush all the way to 14000rpm if you experienced the S1000RR...a rush that won't get boring...ever !
As for boxers not being able to make as much power as other 2 cylinder engines I don't think that is true...look at Porsches that make 520 hp from 4.0 liters or the BMW HP2-S that made 133 hp from 1170cc and was the strongest aircooled 2 cylinder motorcycle engine ever made...some german tuners got 160 hp from these engines despite having no center bearing on the crankshaft.I'm sure if BMW would bring a 3 bearing crank that would offset the cylinders slightly more there would be no problem to bring a reliable 180hp/150nm 1300 cc BOXER with shift cam technology on boths cams.intake and exhaust
Probably too much for a upright bike like a GS but perfect for a new R 1250 S or R 1250 XR !
TORQUE is king and of use 90% of the time but top-end like an S1000XR is exiting and gives you a rush that makes riding exiting as Ducati 1260MS and 1290 KTM don't feel really torquey down low or even chug the chain and the top-end is not really that powerful and at 10K rpm the rev-limiter hits hard while real superbikes give you a rush all the way to 14000rpm if you experienced the S1000RR...a rush that won't get boring...ever !
As for boxers not being able to make as much power as other 2 cylinder engines I don't think that is true...look at Porsches that make 520 hp from 4.0 liters or the BMW HP2-S that made 133 hp from 1170cc and was the strongest aircooled 2 cylinder motorcycle engine ever made...some german tuners got 160 hp from these engines despite having no center bearing on the crankshaft.I'm sure if BMW would bring a 3 bearing crank that would offset the cylinders slightly more there would be no problem to bring a reliable 180hp/150nm 1300 cc BOXER with shift cam technology on boths cams.intake and exhaust
Probably too much for a upright bike like a GS but perfect for a new R 1250 S or R 1250 XR !
……….
As for boxers not being able to make as much power as other 2 cylinder engines I don't think that is true...look at Porsches that make 520 hp from 4.0 liters or the BMW HP2-S that made 133 hp from 1170cc and was the strongest aircooled 2 cylinder motorcycle engine ever made...some german tuners got 160 hp from these engines despite having no center bearing on the crankshaft.I'm sure if BMW would bring a 3 bearing crank that would offset the cylinders slightly more there would be no problem to bring a reliable 180hp/150nm 1300 cc BOXER with shift cam technology on boths cams.intake and exhaust
Probably too much for a upright bike like a GS but perfect for a new R 1250 S or R 1250 XR !
My point was: Quote:
For higher RPMs, the boxer will not be the way to go, unless you go to 4 cyl. The two jugs with their reciprocal movement pumps too much air in and out of the crankcase. No matter what technology is being applied, a V-twin will always be able to do even more.
Porsche or any other of the mentioned engines are not 2-cyl engines.(eh.. the 1170 is)
The problem with only one jug at each side is that as the both simultaneously go in and out this creates a pumping action into the crankcase. If you have more than two cylinders one piston goes in as the other one goes out and hence no change in volume. Even if the twin boxer revs it looses its livlines at higher rpms compared to V-twins. You could make the twin-boxer into a 180 degrees V-twin but that will ruin the balance in the engine.
The 1170 boxer used in the HP2 Sport was indeed a powerful boxer, for the price of very short service intervals. When the technology was applied to the regular GS and RT in 2010 they only went to 110 HP.
I think the boxer is a wonderful engine and it's character suits me perfectly, but it will never become the preferred racing engine as long as it only has two cylinders.
I'm not saying the boxer is slow, but the V-twins are and will always have the potential to be faster on top RPM, and I could not care less...
No doubting who makes them 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Boxerlust spouting crap again. Just to add. Those hp2 engines with 160bhp has been bored, custom specced pistons and recoated bores and needs a rebuild after every race. Strong but fragile engines. The standard HP2 Sport needs an engine rebuild at 30k miles to guarantee the performance. You cannot compare flat plane crank engines of various cylinders and design to a fairly conventional boxer with a low average piston speed.
Are you not that irritating fuckwit on boxertrix from years ago?
It is sent from my phone. So fucking what?
Are you not that irritating fuckwit on boxertrix from years ago?
It is sent from my phone. So fucking what?
Apparently you need an extra 10 feet for the (more bite ) new callipers 70-0mph ?
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesoci...-r1250gs-2019-world-first-dyno-and-speed-test
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesoci...-r1250gs-2019-world-first-dyno-and-speed-test
They did the test just once so not a meaningful result. It could be a number of factors that caused that result. Do it 20 times, 10 times each both riders, swapping to different parts of the track, then it might mean something.
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The Brembos were fine, why change them? Even if these Hayes things are proved to be as good it will perceived as being a backward step.
Has to be cost.
You know why.
They’ve been doing it all over the bike, but this is the most obvious cost cutting.
The bike is 8kg heavier and that will affect the braking distance.
It is sent from my phone. So fucking what?
If you look at the pics of the R & RS, plus the F and S range, they are still on Brembo's, plus the rears are still Brembo's across the range.
Cost cutting does not always mean an inferior product. Hayes may have offered a massive incentive to get their goods onto a perceived premium european product. As long as they perform as per specification it doesn't really matter and what better advertisement than getting on the GS range?
Also Brembo's may have been getting a bit cheeky and started to up their prices so this may just be a minor spanking from BMW. We don't know the full story.
Cost cutting does not always mean an inferior product. Hayes may have offered a massive incentive to get their goods onto a perceived premium european product. As long as they perform as per specification it doesn't really matter and what better advertisement than getting on the GS range?
Also Brembo's may have been getting a bit cheeky and started to up their prices so this may just be a minor spanking from BMW. We don't know the full story.
Additionally the bikes where equipped with different tires, Michelin vs Bridgestone. The author mention this in the text, but he makes no conclusion for the brakes beyond accepting the numbers.
For the sake of yours truly, the most interesting part was the one not relevant to this particular post, and I might start a shit storm saying so. I'm talking about the dyno chart.
The 1200 was rated to 119 rear wheel hp.... ( I will not take it any further)
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And, the fuelling of the 1250 was deemed to be almost perfect. How can that be improved upon for £350?
Well any dyno operator has the option of faking it....
My comments here
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...-bike-review?p=5218635&viewfull=1#post5218635
simonj
Registered user
Brakes
My view is that unless you ride the 1200 & 1250 back to back with the same tyre package (including pressures) it is all just speculation regarding performance. Regarding the supposed cost saving, there is not a manufacturer that will not be looking to reduce costs if the same or better performance can be achieved. If you think they are making to much profit then cast your vote by buying a diffferent brand.
Engine Noise
My MY17 sounds like someone left a bunch of loose bolts inside, I guess having the cylinders hanging out it’s always going to be a bit noisier. I thought I read they changed the cam chain on the MY19. I’d like to see if someone could do a decibel test between the the 1200 & 1250.
My view is that unless you ride the 1200 & 1250 back to back with the same tyre package (including pressures) it is all just speculation regarding performance. Regarding the supposed cost saving, there is not a manufacturer that will not be looking to reduce costs if the same or better performance can be achieved. If you think they are making to much profit then cast your vote by buying a diffferent brand.
Engine Noise
My MY17 sounds like someone left a bunch of loose bolts inside, I guess having the cylinders hanging out it’s always going to be a bit noisier. I thought I read they changed the cam chain on the MY19. I’d like to see if someone could do a decibel test between the the 1200 & 1250.
Graham Fitch
Registered user
brake pads by John Bull by any chance, (showing my age now
)
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