Battery/electrical issue?

My '55 plate RT has a battery-draining issue - I think.

The previous battery was only 6-weeks old. The bike had been parked in the garage for around a week, off the CTEK charger. Fancied a run out, it only just started, the battery was just about flat. I did a 30/40 mile ride, came home, my multimeter showed the battery at around 12.6v after an hour parked. Engine running, it showed 14 and a bit volts at 3k revs, so the alternator seems to be charging OK.

I checked it at 4.30pm - 12.6v
- " - 8.30pm - 12.51v
Next morning 8.00am - 12.3v

Meter showed 9.67v when cranking first time, then 9.4v second time straight after - bike started each time. I connected jump leads to the bike from a spare car battery - it spun over way faster than on its own battery, as expected.

I did a parasitic drain test and got 0.8mA, which I think is negligible - on initial connection, the meter shows 0.24 for a second or two, then 0.13, then settles on 0.8 steady.

Anyway, based on the voltage when cranking, I returned that battery for a refund. I've now fitted the Exide gel 12-19 I've mentioned in another thread. When fully charged, this one shows just under 10v for an instant when cranking.

It seems to be doing the same thing - ie draining fairly quickly, similar figures to those above. There's nothing extra connected to the bike - my Garmin mount is always disconnected from the battery when parked after I read that it can draw current even with no unit mounted on it. The 2 accessory sockets are both live with the key out, but I assume that's how they're meant to be, and there's nothing connected to them anyway.

I've disconnected the battery for tonight to see how it drains overnight compared to when connected. Am I missing anything, other than a better understanding of electricity...?! It's not a huge issue really, the bike's always in the garage overnight and usually on the charger, but it doesn't seem right that the battery drops too low to start it after 6/7 days.

Pete

Leaving it disconnected is the way to go. JJH

Has the bike got an alarm fitted?

bisbee said:

Has the bike got an alarm fitted?

Click to expand...

Nope, no alarm, no extras at all. If it does hold charge better tonight, disconnected, something's amiss!

Pete

First thought:

Faulty diode in alternator. Can still charge, but allows discharge.

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Tractors are go said:

First thought:

Faulty diode in alternator. Can still charge, but allows discharge.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Ah, interesting. Any way of checking other than replacement of the alternator? Is the diode internal?

The sainted Haynes suggests no, however as it is a Bosch, I'd expect a diode pack and brushes to be available, used to doing on my Capri's and Cosworths.

Hopefully someone has done it, like Steptoe perchance can fully advise.

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OK, ta, I'll wait to see if any more info's forthcoming. I can live with it for now as I can put it on the CTEK every night, no trips away planned, so I'd probably look into it further over the winter.

Aux sockets should go off after a few mins if not your system is staying awake which is a sure fire way of draining a battery. If you hadn't already said you disconnect the garmin cradle I would have blamed that as its the same symotoms. Are you absolutely sure nothing else is connected to this circuit even if its hard wired and not plugged in?

To check your Garmin mount is working ..

connect a multimeter to your battery

put your nav in - and turn it on - start the bike and confirm the garmin is charging / running ( ie on external power )

Visual by looking at the garmin display & by the multimeter


Then turn the bike off check the voltage and record it, and start a stopwatch -

After about 30 seconds or so the Garmin should ask if you want to switch over to internal battery or shut down

select no (shutdown) and let the unit turn off -

Check the multimeter - it should show the voltage change as the Garmin turn off


If no request to shut the garmin off after 5 mins -

The unit is either not wired via the canbus connector or the mount could be faulty ( or settings in the nav could be forcing to keep the holder live)


HTH

Marki_GSA said:

Aux sockets should go off after a few mins if not your system is staying awake which is a sure fire way of draining a battery. If you hadn't already said you disconnect the garmin cradle I would have blamed that as its the same symotoms. Are you absolutely sure nothing else is connected to this circuit even if its hard wired and not plugged in?

Click to expand...

Hmmmm, I'll have to check the sockets again - tbh, I think I've checked them just after switching the ignition off, rather than a while later. No, there's nothing else - Garmin goes straight to the battery, fused, but is disconnected after use....there's a charge lead direct to the battery...that's it. I had the l/h indicator microswitch replaced a while back, sent it off for a repair...can't see how that can be the issue....I fitted the rear auxiliary socket myself as there was just a blank there - genuine BMW connected to the plug in the loom.

When I got the bike, the previous owner had used the front aux socket power supply to power his phone for use as a satnav. I just reattached the cables to the socket. I can't think of anything else that's been touched.

Pete

Santa-2512 said:

To check your Garmin mount is working ..

connect a multimeter to your battery

put your nav in - and turn it on - start the bike and confirm the garmin is charging / running ( ie on external power )

Visual by looking at the garmin display & by the multimeter


Then turn the bike off check the voltage and record it, and start a stopwatch -

After about 30 seconds or so the Garmin should ask if you want to switch over to internal battery or shut down

select no (shutdown) and let the unit turn off -

Check the multimeter - it should show the voltage change as the Garmin turn off


If no request to shut the garmin off after 5 mins -

The unit is either not wired via the canbus connector or the mount could be faulty ( or settings in the nav could be forcing to keep the holder live)


HTH

Click to expand...

Ta for that. The mount is wired directly to the battery with an inline fuse in place. The lead has a waterproof SuperSeal connector on it, I disconnect it each time I've used the satnav, so the mount only ever has power when I connect the lead under the seat. When I've taken the voltage readings, the mount's been disconnected.

The way to pin down this type of fault is to be systematic Try to disconnect things one at a time say headlights rear light side stand etc plus check all connections and also look for trapped wires That should keep you busy for a while

Found out today that my multimeter (my cheap multimeter...) may be less than accurate! I bought an Acumen Titanium charger on here a while ago, haven't used it much as I've got a CTEK too, but remembered that the Acumen can be used as a meter when its disconnected from the mains.

Anyway, the battery's been off the bike overnight - my cheap meter showed it at 12.29v last night, dropping to 12.26v this morning. When I used the Acumen instead, it showed 12.59v, just about a full charge! I'm putting more faith in the Acumen's reading. I'm going to leave it connected to the battery overnight and see what it says in the morning, then connect the battery to the bike and see what drop the Acumen shows over the next 24hrs.

Pete

It could be plate sulphation causing self-discharge if it is actually losing capacity whilst off the bike. Lead sulphate is usually the beginning of the end for cells.

You say the 'previous' battery was 6 weeks old in your opening post, how old is the battery that keeps discharging ?.

Pukmeister said:

It could be plate sulphation causing self-discharge if it is actually losing capacity whilst off the bike. Lead sulphate is usually the beginning of the end for cells.

You say the 'previous' battery was 6 weeks old in your opening post, how old is the battery that keeps discharging ?.

Click to expand...

The 'discharging' battery was the 6-week old one, that's gone back for a refund as it was dropping to under 9.5v when cranking. The one on the bike now is an Exide 12-19 Gel, as per OE, 'new', but not sure of its actual age - off the bike, it seems to hold charge OK. At 5pm yesterday, it was at 12.57v dropping to 12.52v at 8.30 this morning - 0.05v drop over 15hrs. I put it back on the bike, ran the engine for a minute to check charging was OK....14.1v....switched off, it showed 12.6v. 10 mins ago, it was showing 12.35v.

So it's dropped 0.25v in 7 hours, when on the bike. My (crappy) multimeter was showing a drain of 0.8mV, which I think is negligible, but likely inaccurate anyway. All the figures on this reply are from the Acumen charger's meter facility, it can't measure drain though - I've got a new, better quality meter on the way for that.

So...I'm thinking/hoping that the previous battery's duffness coupled with the duff meter (there's a theme there....) was my problem. But....my aux sockets are definitely permanently 'on', handbook says they should go off after 15 mins. Why are they always on?? If they're on, presumably the system's still 'awake' and causing a drain.

Is a 0.25v in 7 hours acceptable? That's 1v a day I presume, if it continues to drop at the same rate, which sounds a lot. And it drains 5x faster on the bike than off it. Hmmmm.

Pete

To keep it simple and short,

The bike dosent go fully dead when switched off -

There will be a number of circuits that will draw current from the battery when the bike is in sleep mode

Kombi & alarm are two that spring to mind

Other circuits, go dead if no power draw is detected Nav, aux sockets etc.

However if any draw is detected the circuits stay live as the system thinks they are in use.

Leave a DIN usb plug in the aux socket with a fancy LED in it and that will keep the circuit live

And in monitoring the live circuit will also cause a small current draw

So the bike gets a parasitic current drain

Hi Pete, Just a thought, my electrical knowledge sounds about the same as yours. Could the voltage variation in you last test be due to random variation? I am naturally suspicious of the last decimal place on any read out. Have you tried doing the multiple times? The is likely to be some variation. No idea if it makes a different.

Path.

Hi, you are monitoring the voltage drop when cranking, i believe the problem is high resistance in your battery leads to the starter, taking excessive current and making your voltage drop and battery go flat faster than normal,I had the same issue, solved it by adding Hicap starting upgrade kit which basically are low resistance high capacity power leads, you add the additional positive and negative wires from your battery to the starter solenoid and frame earth, simple to fit and cost approax £68.50 from motorworks: see https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=35&Ct=IA&SbCt=BA_15_35_IA_15
(Click on the link) see video on you tube https://youtu.be/bSVS_HMxR6Y (click on the link)

i would try that first, it worked for me but before emabarking on a 6000 mile tour last year to Norkapp, i additionally replaced the starter and starter relay and fuse to ensure 100% reliability.
After just fitting the HICAP leads = High Capacity Oxygen Free Copper DC Distribution Circuit the bike started faster than ever, within a second or two at most! absolutely fantastic.
Batteries should also be trickle charged every 14 days to keep in top condition and to prevent sulphation.I am fortunate to have a Intelligent battery tester that can check the capacity of batteries and shows the AH in 20 seconds, i had the same issue as you and all prior tests showed the battery as at full capacity, i had starting times of 6 seconds or more with the starter turning over slowly, after adding the new Hicap leads, bike started in one or two seconds. Let me know how you get on, i live near newbury but pop up to near chesterfield regularly and if need be could test your battery free of charge. https://cpc.farnell.com/act-meters/chrome-ibt/battery-tester-sla/dp/IN06758 Regards Steve

Solution:

1. Add Hicap Leads if ok great or go below
2. Get a decent battery. (sorry i would not trust the ebay one after reading negative feedback) i bought a supposedly 19ah battery off another supplier off ebay, after measuring it was only 9ah. (were selling cheap rejects)
3. Fully charge the battery and get its capacity checked)

P.S. Self Discharge

One not-so-nice feature of lead acid batteries is that they discharge all by themselves even if not used. A general rule of thumb is a one percent per day rate of self-discharge. This rate increases at high temperatures and decreases at cold temperatures. Don't forget that your bike, with a clock, stereo, and ecu, is never completely turned off. Each of those devices has a "keep alive memory" to preserve your radio pre-sets and time, and those memories draw about 20 milliamps, or .020 amps. This will suck about one half amp hour from your battery daily at 80 degrees Fahrenheit. This draw, combined with the self-discharge rate, will have your battery 50 percent discharged in two weeks if the bike is left unattended and unridden. See https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/art...s/secret-workings-of-a-lead-acid-battery.html

***** Check the negative feedback on ebay for the low cost battery you purchased !! sorry you get what you pay for ?

go to see https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=35&Ct=IA&SbCt=BA_15_35_IA_10

scroll down on motorworks website to BMW Gel battery original equipment 19amp/hr | ELA59014
Fits R1200RT (09/2004 - 08/2009), R1200RT (09/2009 - 08/2014) Show All...

Associated BMW part: 61212346800 (61 21 2 346 800)
view larger image Larger Image
Maintenance free.
read more...
£81.00 INC VAT
£67.50 EX VAT

the cheaper one Battery AGM Exide | ELA05656

Fits R1200GS (09/2003 - 08/2007), R1200GS (09/2007 - 08/2009), R1200GS... Show All...

Associated BMW part: 61218394179 (61 21 8 394 179)
view larger image Larger Image Sealed and maintenance-free battery from Exide who also manufacture the Original Equipment BMW battery.

12V 12ah 200ah IS ONLY 12 AMP HOUR The one above is 19AH and is the factory recommended item, some ebay offers can be for inferior products.
Dimensions are (L) 150mm (W) 87mm x (H) 145mm.
Please note if your existing battery is shorter in height you may need to remove the spacer underneath your battery in order to facilitate fitment.

AGM is an abbreviation for absorbed glass mat.
In this design, the acid is completely absorbed into glass mat separators which are sandwiched between the lead plates.
It's a totally sealed and maintenance free design.
There are no discharge tubes or filler caps, which eliminates the need to maintain water levels and offers no concern about acid leaks on valuable parts and accessories.
Features, maintenance-free, sealed design, no liquid, zero corrosion, absorbed glass mat technology, resists vibration damage, very low self-discharge rate.
Higher cold cranking amps than stock wet lead acid batteries.

Please note this item can only be sent within UK and Europe.
£54.00 INC VAT
£45.00 EX Vat

Thanks for the reply, I've read it all!

The battery I've got is an Exide Gel 12-19, the bigger one offered by Motorworks. Off the bike, it discharges very slowly. Earlier today, once it was fully charged again, I connected it back up to the bike - using my new, better quality (!) multimeter, it shows the same parasitic drain that the cheap multimeter showed - switched to the 200m setting, it gave 0.8, which I assume is mA. There's no radio on the bike. My mate did put his SnapOn tester on the battery, which showed it as good, and up to spec too - it allows you to dial-in the ratings for the battery.

I'm going to monitor the readings over the next few days, and I'll report back.

Pete