Clutch Disk With Longer Splines For R 1150

iilias1972

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Hello!
winder is coming!
So some works will be done on the motorcycle. R 1150 GS 2001 83000km.
One of them new clutch disk and clutch spring.
Τhe previous owner had changed the clutch set to 30000km. I measured the clutch thickness at 78k and was about 5.2mm.
I will change it proactively. Maybe I can rescue the two plates.
By the way i have a noise with the clutch lever pulled and bike hot.
I think of a clutch disk with long splines (Motobins or motorworks) for less problems in the future.
do you have any experience with these clutch discs?
Any suggestion?

Thanks a lot!
 
I fitted the Motorworks extended spline clutch plate a two thousand miles ago, no problems at all, and used the horrendously expensive Honda spline grease...
 
Hi iilias,

The noise you hear when you pull the clutch lever is the failing slave cylinder bolted tot he back of the gearbox. It has a tiny ball-bearing that fits on the back end of the clutch Actuation Rod.
Best thing to do is replace that Slave Cylinder and the seal that sits deep in the cavity where the Slave Cylinder goes. Might as well do that at the same time as you fit the longer-hubbed Clutch Friction Plate. Because you have to split the bike, tail-up, to do the clutch maintenance.

Bike-Tail-Up.jpg


A question :-

¿ What makes you think a new Diaphragm Spring Plate is needed ? If there are no broken radial 'fingers', the spring is usually OK.
 
@bobbyb382 thanks!
@sykospain i think @steptoe has right
i have check the slave cylinder
https://advrider.com/f/attachments/unadjustednonraw_thumb_12-jpg.1202782/
here more detail about the noises... two (2) different noises
https://advrider.com/f/threads/bmw-r-1150-gs-clutch-transmission-noises.1297660/#post-35011446
today i take out the magnet bolt under the gearbox
on the magnet were stuck small pieces of metal.
not powdered metal. but pieces of metal like very small needles.
what do you think?
steptoe? I will not get away from the gearbox rebuild?
thanks again!
 
IIlias

I had the same issues with my gearbox drain plug. The reason I checked it was because of a whining coming from the gearbox under load. When i took the gearbox off the shafts were really rough to turn, Mike @ overland and classics rebuilt the gearbox and said that the bearings were almost destroyed. Gearbox is good as new now.

While I was getting the gearbox sorted I also fitted an extended spline clutch disc from motorworks, but tried to re-use the old clutch cover plates. What a disaster. After I had put the whole bike back together I spent the majority of 2 weeks trying and failing to diagnose / bleed the system as I thought it had air in it (new slave cylinder also). The lever would work after repeatedly pumping, but not on a single actuation. Long (and expensive) story short, the new disc was dragging on the old plates as they had worn unequally, meaning the clutch would not fully disengage with one actuation. Replace everything while you're in there.
 
"Knowledge, it doesn't come easy, it takes hard work and is a very valuable commodity."

So says the oracle.

My name isn't Harold, so please Steptoe, stop being such a comic curmudgeon and offer some advice to the guy...
He's in Greece for feck's sake, so there's no way he can impact on your business activities.

AL in s.e. Spain
 
IIlias
Replace everything while you're in there.
Definitely replace everything. After clutch slave failure in France last October and limp home several days later, I fitted a new Sachs kit but with the longer nose clutch plate (because why not), had the gearbox refurbed in an afternoon by Lord Scrimmy (because same) and changed the slave cylinder on my 1150RT. The transmission side of the bike feels so smooth now - it is absolutely perfect. Money well spent.
 
Thanks all of you for your help.
Sincerely, you all helped me a lot!

The gearbox will rebuild and all the bearings will replaced by new.
Steptoe diagnose this a long time ago. By the video on youtube.
The look of the magnetic gearbox plug confirms it. That you look it's not paste. These are small pieces of metal (3-4mm length) and thin like needles.
https://advrider.com/f/attachments/img_20181110_140859-jpg.1423816/
Thanks again @steptoe !!!

I have really bad experiences from local service stores and my previous bikes. It is really very unwise to pay money for some problem and in a short time the problem appears again. No one diagnosed a problem in the gearbox. They told me: "these motorcycles sound like that" "these motorcycles sound like that" "these motorcycles sound like that"
For reasons like these and many many more, i have decided (before I even buy this bike) to fix it myself. I do not have much experience with diagnosis and I have some difficulty with it. This is the reason I ask questions for all of you.

With the clutch I'm still confused. when the clutch will disassemble, then I will decide. there is and the noise with the clutch lever pulled and bike hot. I hope to fix this too.
I will keep you informed of the progress of the work.
Thanks again!!! Sorry for my English
 
Thanks all of you for your help.
Sincerely, you all helped me a lot!

The gearbox will rebuild and all the bearings will replaced by new.
Steptoe diagnose this a long time ago. By the video on youtube.
The look of the magnetic gearbox plug confirms it. That you look it's not paste. These are small pieces of metal (3-4mm length) and thin like needles.
https://advrider.com/f/attachments/img_20181110_140859-jpg.1423816/
Thanks again @steptoe !!!

I have really bad experiences from local service stores and my previous bikes. It is really very unwise to pay money for some problem and in a short time the problem appears again. No one diagnosed a problem in the gearbox. They told me: "these motorcycles sound like that" "these motorcycles sound like that" "these motorcycles sound like that"
For reasons like these and many many more, i have decided (before I even buy this bike) to fix it myself. I do not have much experience with diagnosis and I have some difficulty with it. This is the reason I ask questions for all of you.

With the clutch I'm still confused. when the clutch will disassemble, then I will decide. there is and the noise with the clutch lever pulled and bike hot. I hope to fix this too.
I will keep you informed of the progress of the work.
Thanks again!!! Sorry for my English

If you are replacing the friction plate with a longer spline version you must replace the whole clutch assembly including the cover plates, regardless of how it looks. You can't tell how the assembly has worn, and will only see problems after you have re-built the bike.
 
There's a divergence of opinion about the need to replace the entire clutch-pack just because you want to install the 'new' longer-hubbed friction plate.
I've done two in the last month and the third bike is is awaiting my return to Spain carrying the new Motorworks plate for my Spanish pal. They had about 20 in stock last week.
All three OEM clutch-packs seem fine, except of course for tiny signs of wear on the OEM Sachs friction-plate hub and even tinier signs of wear on the splined input shaft; a trace of blue-ing could be seen here and there on the shiny parts of each clutch-pack, but nothing serious. So for me, it's just replace the friction plate in all three bikes.
 
the motorbike was disassembled today.
a full clutch assembly will needed to instal. cover plate and pressure plate have worn enough.
The input shaft front bearing has enough worn. No damage. Enough worn and freeplay.
The good news ... input shaft spline is in excellent contition!
The gears of the shafts are in excellent contition!
The slave cylinder is in excellent contision too! The last year repair works fine!
Tomorrow cleaning, better inspection and photos.
I ll be back with new photos.
THANKS
img_20181117_144342-jpg.1432389

img_20181117_160350-jpg.1432386

img_20181117_160329-jpg.1432387

img_20181110_131745-jpg.1432388

ps. Last one helps me to remember my bike! :)
 
@johndglynn
Do u mean sachs clutch friction plate with long splines?

Sorry for the late reply. I fitted the Motorworks plate with Sachs cover and PP. I am glad you changed everything: I read enough stories about uneven wear on original parts destroying new clutch discs not to change the lot on mine given how deep I was in. Also changed the rear main seal on my R1100R when I changed the clutch on that, so I pulled the flywheel and checked my RT but that was OK.
 
hello
Today i start my bike! It was quiet!
But let me present the things from the beginning...
Sorry in advance for my English.
I hope to help some guys.
when disassembling the bike, i make marks on clutch parts.
Clutch housing(flywheel) Clutch pressure plate, Clutch cover plate.
clutch1.jpg clutch2.jpg
After a couple of days I cleaned the parts to find the factory marks.
then I discovered this...
clutch3.jpg
Bad assembly of the clutch parts!
The previous owner has changed a friction disc and a diaphragm spring to an authorized shop as it appears in the service book. The parts were bmw oem parts.
I put some red tape to show u the marks of heavy weight points.
All the heavy weight points are too close.
So When i was pull the clutch lever, the crankshaft with the clutch parts (exept friction disk) rotates free (without support of gearbox input shaft) and unbalanced and hit up ,down, right, left at crankshaft bearing. There is freeplay there.
And when we have five bars(or more) temperature the oil is more light and the motor sounds Toc Toc Toc Toc Toc.
NOTE: i have no vibrations!!!
When the clutch is not pulled, the problem affects and the gearbox input shaft. No noise but worn at bearings. This explain that there was worn at input shaft bearings in my gearbox. No too much but there was. The input shaft bearings are smaller than the others gearbox bearings. The bearings of the other shafts have no problem.
I take the friction disk to a machine shop. They made extension 6mm to cover all spline length of input shaft.
I assemble the clutch parts with the right way. I take care of every heavy weight point going away from each other.
Something like that..
clutch4.jpg
I assemble the gearbox to the engine. I assemble and the necessary parts(fuel tank, airbox, starter etc) to start the bike.
I start the engine and wait to see five bars temperature.
And Voilà!!! NO noises! NO toc toc toc toc! NO klang while i pull the clutch!!!
Only a little bit of toc toc when i put my ear very very close. Probably some worn of the time the bike run with an unbalanced clutch. But i have measured the freeplay of crankshaft (its not easy) and was at the limits proposed by the bmw.
I leave the bike on with a fan for sometime and everything looks and hears fine!
But i looks much fine than bike! :)
Next days i will assemble the bike. I will notify you for the process.

Photos here : https://advrider.com/f/threads/bmw-r-1150-gs-clutch-transmission-noises.1297660/page-2#post-37004055
Thanks
 


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