Who needs a BMW navigator.....

Now you're just being argumentative. The 'facts' I refer to are that a mobile phone SatNav app doesn't have to rely on downloading, i.e. on-line maps. They are also cheaper than a dedicated device and you can simply get a new app when you wish, whereas with a dedicated device, you simply cannot swap the interface etc for anything else. These are incontrovertible facts.

My opinions are exactly that, but based on real world experience that I clearly described. What occurred in each case is similarly fact. My opinions have subsequently been formed by those actual events and experiences. I am simply passing on my not inconsiderable experience and subsequent opinions to others in the hope that it might assist them in their own decision making - either way.

Your scaremongering regarding "total failure of an expensive smart-phone in elevated temperatures" is however about as far from 'fact' as you can get really, totally based on your own fears and not supported by my own actual experiences like an entire week in France when I don't think the temperature dropped below 40°C. We all baked, but not one phone failure.

I'm not laughing at any of this. Just don't really see the need to prolong the argument.

I would tend to agree about the overheating phone fears as I haven't experienced that either. However, some phones do get quite hot when using GPS and also from charging, and the power consumption when using GPS location services means you may have to have it connected to a charger if you want to be able to use it all day. My Android phone does not overheat despite being connected to a fast charge adaptor, but is water resistant so is only mounted in a thin one sided case with Quadlock attached and therefore gets a reasonable amount of cooling breeze when moving. Maybe iPhones are more prone to overheating? I can imagine that if you put the phone in a thick waterproof case then there could be overheating issues, and a resident of Greece on another forum I frequent has had this exact problem, and I seem to remember that was with an iPhone.

Fred
 
Now you're just being argumentative. The 'facts' I refer to are that a mobile phone SatNav app doesn't have to rely on downloading, i.e. on-line maps. They are also cheaper than a dedicated device and you can simply get a new app when you wish, whereas with a dedicated device, you simply cannot swap the interface etc for anything else. These are incontrovertible facts.

My opinions are exactly that, but based on real world experience that I clearly described. What occurred in each case is similarly fact. My opinions have subsequently been formed by those actual events and experiences. I am simply passing on my not inconsiderable experience and subsequent opinions to others in the hope that it might assist them in their own decision making - either way.

Your scaremongering regarding "total failure of an expensive smart-phone in elevated temperatures" is however about as far from 'fact' as you can get really, totally based on your own fears and not supported by my own actual experiences like an entire week in France when I don't think the temperature dropped below 40°C. We all baked, but not one phone failure.

I'm not laughing at any of this. Just don't really see the need to prolong the argument.

Half your ‘experience’ was using maps!

Just because your phone didn’t break, doesn’t mean it can’t happen- it’s analogous to the fella who’s TV burst into flames, and he said: “That’s never happened before”

Not laughing at any of this? “I laughed at someone's comment about using a nav app on a phone as a backup to a decent Sat Nav. Ha....”

Sorry-in my life’s experience - you are a condescending prick.

Happy navigation.
 
I would tend to agree about the overheating phone fears as I haven't experienced that either. However, some phones do get quite hot when using GPS and also from charging, and the power consumption when using GPS location services means you may have to have it connected to a charger if you want to be able to use it all day. My Android phone does not overheat despite being connected to a fast charge adaptor, but is water resistant so is only mounted in a thin one sided case with Quadlock attached and therefore gets a reasonable amount of cooling breeze when moving. Maybe iPhones are more prone to overheating? I can imagine that if you put the phone in a thick waterproof case then there could be overheating issues, and a resident of Greece on another forum I frequent has had this exact problem, and I seem to remember that was with an iPhone.

Fred

Yes, they can run hot at times, but it doesn't seem to cause problems when mounted on a bike in the breeze. Just don't encase them in black insulation. :)

I originally thought that the GPS was using up the power and adding to the heat, but I have since realised that in fact the screen is the power hog. Mobile phones are normally used intermittently and the screens are scheduled to be off most of the time with usually very short 'timeouts'. Continuous usage as a SatNav will drain the battery really fast - within 2 hours I have found. So yes you're right, you do HAVE to have a phone powered from the bike while used like this. But that's no different from any dedicated device.
 
...Sorry-in my life’s experience - you are a condescending prick.

Thank you for that. That would be in your life's experience of NEVER having met me.

Let me just finish by saying that I'm truly sorry you feel that way as it was never my intention to even appear to be condescending. You have obviously taken remarkable exception to what I have said, for reasons that I cannot fathom. Well, that's up to you and not much I can do about that it seems, but it's always a shame when a member of a forum resorts to name calling, don't you think.

I am more than happy to discuss the pros and cons of mobile phone based SatNav - in a reasonable manner. So please, keep it reasonable. For everyone's sake.
 
At the moment am using both a NAV V and an iPhone. Would certainly not buy another dedicated sat nav of any kind. Why pay twice for gadgets that more or less, with reservations, do the same thing. Any phone is much more easily transferred from one bike to another and mounted with RAM/Quadlock. The phones do run the battery down quickly so provision has to be made for a socket. Alternatively has anyone tried keeping a phone adequately charged for a long journey with a Power Bank?
 
At the moment am using both a NAV V and an iPhone. Would certainly not buy another dedicated sat nav of any kind. Why pay twice for gadgets that more or less, with reservations, do the same thing. Any phone is much more easily transferred from one bike to another and mounted with RAM/Quadlock. The phones do run the battery down quickly so provision has to be made for a socket. Alternatively has anyone tried keeping a phone adequately charged for a long journey with a Power Bank?

I've not tried any additional batteries as a bike has power to spare and so seems to me to make more sense to plug it in and then be unlimited in range.

One other point in favour of using a phone that digger37 touched on above. A phone is easily transferred from bike to bike, so if you have several it makes even more sense than having to buy a dedicated device for each bike. I realise you might be able to swap around some dedicated SatNavs, but the BMW Navigation devices are actually BMW bike specific are they not? So any BMW Nav system on a GS is basically limited to that bike, or could you transfer it and use on a different one (i.e. non BMW)?

Also, although I previously mentioned that a mobile phone allows you to pick and choose which SatNav app to run (and change later if you want), the converse is also true in that by using the same phone device and app whenever you want any SatNav assistance, you get to use the same device with the same interface, every time. What that means is that by using the exact same device and app everywhere (bikes, cars, walking etc) you can become very proficient at using it. If you have to use a totally different device whenever you need a SatNav, you will never become expert in any of them. A mobile phone just has to be useable in more places than any dedicated device and that familiarity is I believe a BIG plus point in their favour for use as your SatNav device.
 
I've not tried any additional batteries as a bike has power to spare and so seems to me to make more sense to plug it in and then be unlimited in range.

One other point in favour of using a phone that digger37 touched on above. A phone is easily transferred from bike to bike, so if you have several it makes even more sense than having to buy a dedicated device for each bike. I realise you might be able to swap around some dedicated SatNavs, but the BMW Navigation devices are actually BMW bike specific are they not? So any BMW Nav system on a GS is basically limited to that bike, or could you transfer it and use on a different one (i.e. non BMW)?

Also, although I previously mentioned that a mobile phone allows you to pick and choose which SatNav app to run (and change later if you want), the converse is also true in that by using the same phone device and app whenever you want any SatNav assistance, you get to use the same device with the same interface, every time. What that means is that by using the exact same device and app everywhere (bikes, cars, walking etc) you can become very proficient at using it. If you have to use a totally different device whenever you need a SatNav, you will never become expert in any of them. A mobile phone just has to be useable in more places than any dedicated device and that familiarity is I believe a BIG plus point in their favour for use as your SatNav device.

Was curious to know if anyone had used a power bank. Appreciate a socket is probably a better solution. A BMW NAV can be fitted to any make of bike, provided you have the cradle, mount it with RAM/Quadlock/why and wire it in. There is a BMW wiring adaptor for this purpose. There is no doubt that using the same device all the time breeds familiarity. It can take a while to walk your way round all the menus and realise the device's full potential.
 
I see what people are saying about just having the one device i.e. a smart phone but I was wondering if the waterproof capabilities are the same when you have a cable plugged in to charge it?
I personally like having a dedicated GPS for both my bikes, My phone stays in my pocket, both units sit in lockable cradles so you can leave it in when you go in to pay for petrol for example and on the BMW the convenience of using the 'wheel' to zoom in, change screens etc is really useful. I find the GPS screens easier to read in the sun too.
 
I use a power bank to charge an old iPhone 5 running ViewRanger when trail riding. No issues with heat and lasts all day easily.
 
I see what people are saying about just having the one device i.e. a smart phone but I was wondering if the waterproof capabilities are the same when you have a cable plugged in to charge it?
I personally like having a dedicated GPS for both my bikes, My phone stays in my pocket, both units sit in lockable cradles so you can leave it in when you go in to pay for petrol for example and on the BMW the convenience of using the 'wheel' to zoom in, change screens etc is really useful. I find the GPS screens easier to read in the sun too.

Good point, a cable plugged in must affect how waterproof it is. I have struggled with this exact issue. Not actually suffering any problems, but trying to ascertain what the effect would be. However, I would ensure that any waterproof phone I used also had wireless charging capability that would obviate the need to plug it in at all.

I do take your point about the security aspect. It is always something of a concern when having to leave the bike and if I'm on my own, I tend to remove it and take it with me which is required anyway if I want to pay for the fuel (or anything) with Apple Pay. This is probably the biggest drawback of using the same device for everything and is why I am looking for the perfect mount that is very quick and simple to attach and remove the phone. Waterproof phones with wireless charging are I believe the answer, but that's something else I need to upgrade.

A potential solution would be a relatively simple screen device, securely installed in place of the BMW Nav. This screen simply providing CarPlay (and whatever the Android equivalent is called). You then use the phone with SatNav app of your choice (although very few are yet CarPlay enabled), but keep the phone in your pocket, avoiding any waterproof issues and it would always be with you for payment and of course kept secure. Charging might however be an issue, but with the screen off, it would last much longer. Maybe all day. Anyone tried using a phone with CarPlay (or Android version) in their car on a long journey, without additional charging? How long did it last?
 
I also now use a power pack for my iPhone 8 when I’m on a long trip....no issues with overheating. I always carry the phone in my pocket instead of on the bike. I do this just in case we ever get “separated” and I need to use the phone in an emergency.
In the past I have used my phone as a Sat Nav on the bike and it worked well but changed my ways as previously stated so that I can easily access my phone in any situation.
 
I also now use a power pack for my iPhone 8 when I’m on a long trip....no issues with overheating. I always carry the phone in my pocket instead of on the bike. I do this just in case we ever get “separated” and I need to use the phone in an emergency.
In the past I have used my phone as a Sat Nav on the bike and it worked well but changed my ways as previously stated so that I can easily access my phone in any situation.

Good point.
 
I've not tried any additional batteries as a bike has power to spare and so seems to me to make more sense to plug it in and then be unlimited in range.

One other point in favour of using a phone that digger37 touched on above. A phone is easily transferred from bike to bike, so if you have several it makes even more sense than having to buy a dedicated device for each bike. I realise you might be able to swap around some dedicated SatNavs, but the BMW Navigation devices are actually BMW bike specific are they not? So any BMW Nav system on a GS is basically limited to that bike, or could you transfer it and use on a different one (i.e. non BMW)?

Also, although I previously mentioned that a mobile phone allows you to pick and choose which SatNav app to run (and change later if you want), the converse is also true in that by using the same phone device and app whenever you want any SatNav assistance, you get to use the same device with the same interface, every time. What that means is that by using the exact same device and app everywhere (bikes, cars, walking etc) you can become very proficient at using it. If you have to use a totally different device whenever you need a SatNav, you will never become expert in any of them. A mobile phone just has to be useable in more places than any dedicated device and that familiarity is I believe a BIG plus point in their favour for use as your SatNav device.

Not entirley true.

The Nav mount is matched to the Nav unit, that is true,

but if you put a basic nav mount ( power only) onto any of your bikes you can transfer the Nav unit it as easily as a phone or car type sat nav

The Nav unit will still function on a non BMW unit, you just loose the extra stuff thats tied in ie (Wheel control / extra display ) etc.

In terms of the type Nav units and functionality, they all perform differently.

Phone -

Will do Nav , but invariably needs mobile data & location services to lock / function (cell/ mast info & GPS)

Car/bike nav unit -

Dedicated unit does not need cell / mobile data to operate but needs to get a gps data lock to orient itself ( struggles indoors)

Handheld GPS -

Dedicated GPS unit, does not come with road mapping - but will give your location - map position anywhere you have the correct map loaded.

Will get a gps lock near on anywhere .
 
GPS all the way for me , love planning routes , scouring maps , google earth and books and words of advice and experience.
Phones are a pain if it was up to me I would strap a RED BOX to my bars rather than a temperamental apple.
 
I suppose it all comes down to preferences... Let me present some arguments in favor of a BMW GPS on a GS:

1 In portuguese, my native language, we have a saying that is oftem quoted by sailo1rs:

Quem tem 2, tem 1, quem tem 1 não tem nenhum, which translated comes to:

Who that has 2, has 1. who has 1, have none. It is supposed to mean that out on the sea one has to carry 2 of each as if one brakes down you have a replacement
and if you only carry one, if it brakes down you will be without.

Imagine going to see with one GPS and it brakes down and you don't have a replacement ? Relating this thinking to motorcycle travel this seems to not be a
problem if you travel on most north american or european roads, however, on many almostinhabtated parts of the world, Patagonia comes to mind, this may pose a
problem if one uses a phone as GPS, comunication system, etc and it breaks down or become chargeless.

2 No doubt it is much easier to see and operate a BMW GPS than a phone

3 The GPS is fully waterproof

4 On a GPS it is much easier to program a route (trip) than on a phone

5 As mentioned in item 1, its much safer if you have a phone as a backup GPS

6 Its, although precariously, locked to the bike

7 It is built in a way that withstands vibration and rough handling better than a phone

8 It works as well when wearing gloves

9 It allows for many informations regarding the trip and the bike.

10 It has great flexilbility in setting up which information is shown regarding the trip and the bike.

11 You have esy access to all BMW motorrad dealerships, Gas stations along you route, etc

Those are some of the major ones that comes to mind...
 
I suppose it all comes down to preferences... Let me present some arguments in favor of a BMW GPS on a GS:

1 In portuguese, my native language, we have a saying that is oftem quoted by sailo1rs:

Quem tem 2, tem 1, quem tem 1 não tem nenhum, which translated comes to:

Who that has 2, has 1. who has 1, have none. It is supposed to mean that out on the sea one has to carry 2 of each as if one brakes down you have a replacement
and if you only carry one, if it brakes down you will be without.

Imagine going to see with one GPS and it brakes down and you don't have a replacement ? Relating this thinking to motorcycle travel this seems to not be a
problem if you travel on most north american or european roads, however, on many almostinhabtated parts of the world, Patagonia comes to mind, this may pose a
problem if one uses a phone as GPS, comunication system, etc and it breaks down or become chargeless.

2 No doubt it is much easier to see and operate a BMW GPS than a phone - Not true, most people can use a phone.

3 The GPS is fully waterproof - so are most phones made in the last two years, supports 30 mins at 1 metre depth

4 On a GPS it is much easier to program a route (trip) than on a phone. disagree - it easier on phone, can be done from google or any other rmethod

5 As mentioned in item 1, its much safer if you have a phone as a backup GPS - possibly if you leave europe

6 Its, although precariously, locked to the bike - Even safer is a phone, put it straight into your pocket

7 It is built in a way that withstands vibration and rough handling better than a phone most phones can withstand a 1 metre drop so again disagree

8 It works as well when wearing gloves - no real bother to remove gloves

9 It allows for many informations regarding the trip and the bike.None that you really need

10 It has great flexilbility in setting up which information is shown regarding the trip and the bike.None that you really need

11 You have esy access to all BMW motorrad dealerships, Gas stations along you route, etc so does phone satnav apps

Those are some of the major ones that comes to mind...

and one more, you save Approx £500

and another, a phone uses a gps receiver and the internet if required for navigation, therefor more accurate than a dedicated satnav!
 
and one more, you save Approx £500

and another, a phone uses a gps receiver and the internet if required for navigation, therefor more accurate than a dedicated satnav!

All well and good,

Go back 5 years and phones that GPS needed only to lock onto 3 of 13 satellites to get a coordinate fix

New phones need GPS / DATA / & cell tower data to get the GPS coordinates & to work.

All well and good in built up areas,

but if you see the recent Harley to Everest blog - the amount of time he was lost due to the phone/nav not being able get a fix / connection !
 
Mine lives on the bike, I never use the bikes speedo, I can customise the dashboard to have whatever info I want at that time.
Yes they are expensive, but second hand, no more so than people spend on mobiles.
I am a skinflint and don't spend money on phones and only have whatever is going on my contract. Swings and roundabouts.

Yep, that. Speed, range and tyre pressures for me.
 
All well and good,

Go back 5 years and phones that GPS needed only to lock onto 3 of 13 satellites to get a coordinate fix

New phones need GPS / DATA / & cell tower data to get the GPS coordinates & to work.

All well and good in built up areas,

but if you see the recent Harley to Everest blog - the amount of time he was lost due to the phone/nav not being able get a fix / connection !
He was using Google maps for navigation. No wonder he struggled....
Offline mapping was what he needed.



Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70F using Tapatalk
 
It's unfortunate there is still a lot of BS being touted as evidence that a dedicated GPS is better. There are some real advantages to using one instead of a phone, but outweighed IN MY OPINION by the disadvantages. However, claiming that phones need cellular data in order to get a fix and are susceptible to vibration etc is simply wrong. Please, argue either case with facts, or opinions based on those facts, not nonsense like this.

To be more specific in response to what was stated earlier, Apple products are not flaky and their iPhone is not particularly fragile. The only problem I have had in over 10 years SatNav'ing around Europe has been with a dedicated SatNav device or an accessory being used with the iPhone. An iPhone has NEVER failed on me. Do I think there's any need for a backup device? Not on my usual trips no as I will be travelling with others and there will ALWAYS be another mobile device that could be used in an emergency. If I was travelling alone on a world tour? That's a different matter entirely and requires a different mind set and plan, with emergency backup contingency plans and is not really relevant to a simple dedicated GPS device vs. mobile phone debate.

I think we can all agree that trying to use a phone for SatNav with just an on-line mapping app (Google or Apple maps etc) is an inferior solution. The comparison is really between a dedicated device such as BMW offer for their bikes (or other similar device) vs. a mobile phone used with a dedicated SatNav app with off-line, i.e. fully downloaded map data. So in each case the maps are already there on the device and the GPS should be working in an equivalent manner (if not, I suggest there's a problem with the device). The comparison is therefore between the actual usage of each device. How it connects to and interfaces with the vehicle. How YOU interface with the device and what is required to operate it.

I am still firmly in the mobile phone camp on this. It's not a perfect solution, but for me, it's better than having to integrate an additional device into my biking life. I would never use a BMW Nav. device from a GS in my car and I would NEVER go out on a walk with it and if I find myself out and about in need of directional guidance, there's NO chance it would EVER just happen to be in my pocket. However, my mobile phone has got all those covered and since I am therefore very familiar with using it, adapting it for use on the bike is a no-brainer. But that is JMO. Others obviously prefer the fact that the BMW Nav is (possibly) better integrated into the bike and maybe easier to use with gloves and these are valid points, but for me they are outweighed by the advantages I have experienced using a mobile phone. Even simple things like making it easier to unpack and walk into the Hotel at the end of each day and vice versa in the morning. iPhone off the bike and in my pocket, helmet in one hand and bag in the other. Anything else is a faff and since I'm normally the one who planned the trip, gives me time to organise our arrival with the hotel while everyone else struggles getting all their stuff (and SatNavs) off their bikes etc.

One of the biggest remaining problems for my use of SatNav on longer trips is planning the route and transferring that to the device. I have been using the CoPilot app for many years now and although excellent in many ways, its developers are deaf when it comes to requests from users for the ability to copy routes from computer (PC, Mac) to the phone. However from the mention here of the WunderLINQ adapter I have become aware of the Scenic app which does provide such functionality and on my next trip I look forward to trying that - on the iPhone of course. :)
 


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