Sockets permanently powered.

Thanks for the further info. I've just disconnected the battery, will leave it off overnight. I checked the headstock connector - it still has all 3 wires connected to it....could it be the blue/green one that's keeping things powered up? :confused:

Pete
 
milleplod said:
Thanks for the further info. I've just disconnected the battery, will leave it off overnight. I checked the headstock connector - it still has all 3 wires connected to it....could it be the blue/green one that's keeping things powered up? :confused:

Pete
Click to expand...

Correct; well at least it's a strong theory.

I'm not sure of the original source of your Nav Mount or cable TBH. Presumably the mount has Garmin rather than BMW branding, as Santa mentions with his, but who affixed the canbus plug - DIY soldered in or original hard wiring made to mirror OE I wonder?

Still, it doesn't really matter for now. Let's see what the situation is tomorrow with the grand battery re-connect.
 
The mount is a Garmin one that came with the Zumo 400, the cable/connector was one I bought on here last week....a homemade one. I'll report back tomorrow!

Pete
 

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milleplod said:
The mount is a Garmin one that came with the Zumo 400, the cable/connector was one I bought on here last week....a homemade one. I'll report back tomorrow!

Pete
Click to expand...

If i recall - with the notch at the bottom, the two lower pins are your +12Ve & -12Ve The top pin is the +10Ve speed pulse

I would probe your female socket on the bike to confirm, and then untape the above flylead to confirm.

I left two fairly long tails on my BMW aux lead before linking to the garmin lead - Although the Garmin power lead is a 4 pin connector, only + & - are used

Quick Q your not running a Garmin 220 are you? there are known issues with the 12v/5v conversion causing canbus to have hiccups ;)
 
Santa-2512 said:
If i recall - with the notch at the bottom, the two lower pins are your +12Ve & -12Ve The top pin is the +10Ve speed pulse

I would probe your female socket on the bike to confirm, and then untape the above flylead to confirm.

I left two fairly long tails on my BMW aux lead before linking to the garmin lead - Although the Garmin power lead is a 4 pin connector, only + & - are used

Quick Q your not running a Garmin 220 are you? there are known issues with the 12v/5v conversion causing canbus to have hiccups ;)
Click to expand...

It's a Zumo 400. I'll check the socket and lead tomorrow.
 
Battery reconnected today - the aux and gps sockets were immediately live. :mad: I tried various combinations of Zumo on/off the mount, ignition on/off, load on rear aux, ignition on/off......they both stayed live indefinitely. All 3 wires into the gps plug are doing something, checked with multimeter - ie the speed pulse one isn't disconnected - but I think the only way to fix it is as suggested earlier - GS-911 connected and hope that it can reset the canbus so it starts to switch things off.

Pete
 
You have tried this with the mount discone Ted as well yes? It's actually the mount that causes the issue.

911 won't fix anything but it might tell you what is wrong. You may actually have a broken ZF unit but then again you might still have a wiring or acc issue still connected somewhere.
 
Marki_GSA said:
You have tried this with the mount discone Ted as well yes? It's actually the mount that causes the issue.

911 won't fix anything but it might tell you what is wrong. You may actually have a broken ZF unit but then again you might still have a wiring or acc issue still connected somewhere.
Click to expand...

Yep, tried every combination known to man! Thing is, there's absolutely zero (well, negligible) drain anywhere when doing a parasitic drain test with the multimeter - if anything was drawing power somewhere, it should show up. :confused:

Pete
 
milleplod said:
Battery reconnected today - the aux and gps sockets were immediately live. :mad: I tried various combinations of Zumo on/off the mount, ignition on/off, load on rear aux, ignition on/off......they both stayed live indefinitely. All 3 wires into the gps plug are doing something, checked with multimeter - ie the speed pulse one isn't disconnected - but I think the only way to fix it is as suggested earlier - GS-911 connected and hope that it can reset the canbus so it starts to switch things off.

Pete
Click to expand...

Youv'e lost me a bit here. The idea was that the canbus plug, down by the headstock would be disconnected before re-connecting the battery. That should have shown us whether the problem was within the wiring from there to the Zumo lead/mount. Perhaps you can clarify where you were checking the output?

You see, my suspicion was that the lead you puchased may be powering the Zumo from lead 2 = blue/green for the speed pulse, rather than lead 3 = red/white for the 12v supply. Have you opened up the tape/shrink to check?

Sorry if I seem a bit pedantic; it's always a pain when you know someone has been messing with the wiring & then trying to analyse from a distance.
 
Sorry for any confusion - I'm confused about a lot of things, but electrics baffle me! :blast

Before I reconnected the battery, the canbus plug at the headstock wasn't connected to anything. After connecting the battery, the first thing I did was to check the rear aux socket - that was live. Then I checked the gps plug at the headstock with my multimeter without plugging anything into it. I poked the probe into each of the connectors for the pins from the plug shown in my pic - each one gave a reading on the meter. I took the heatshrink off the lead I bought - there are 3 wires at the back of the plug, all yellow.

Hope that helps!

Pete
 
milleplod said:
Sorry for any confusion - I'm confused about a lot of things, but electrics baffle me! :blast

Before I reconnected the battery, the canbus plug at the headstock wasn't connected to anything. After connecting the battery, the first thing I did was to check the rear aux socket - that was live. Then I checked the gps plug at the headstock with my multimeter without plugging anything into it. I poked the probe into each of the connectors for the pins from the plug shown in my pic - each one gave a reading on the meter. I took the heatshrink off the lead I bought - there are 3 wires at the back of the plug, all yellow.

Hope that helps!

Pete
Click to expand...

Thats correct, the BMW connctor lead is 3 yellow wires

However, only 2 of the wires need to be connected


Starting from the main wiring harness there is a female socket at the headstock for your nav or lights

The socket has 3 wires going in to it +12Ve(Live) -12Ve(GND) & +10Ve (Speed pulse)

Your garmin lead terminates in a Male connector to plug into the female lead at the headstock. with us so far?

However the garmin male plug needs only 2 wires connected +12Ve & -12Ve so snip the +10Ve wire (it should be the top pin) On the Garmin lead,

NOT the main harness plug!

Once snipped, plug the unit back in and put your garmin on the cradle, turn on your ignition & power up the garmin

once the garmin is powered up, turn off your iginition & remove the key.


After 30 secs the unit should say shutting down, or do you want to go to battery power. If it does, you know the Switched live is working

The aux socket under the seat if i recall is perma live. however its only 2 bits of wire into a socket. if nothing is plugged in it dosent draw any current so staying live isnt an issue.

I'll confirm on my bike tommorow

HTH
 
I don’t know if it helps at all but I turned up to collect our RT blood bike and as soon as I put my Nav V in its 4 button cradle, it powered up. The bike sat in my garage all weekend and when I put the Nav back in the cradle it powered up immediately.

I assumed that the cradle had been wired direct to the battery but after reading this thread I think it may be wired to the acc socket and permanently live too.
 
Seems strange to me. With everything unplugged, the ZF should be reverting to the standard prog, with the brief 1 min...ish overrun.

Anyway try Santas ideas & see what happens. The 3 yellow leads from the plug are in fact marked 1/2/3 - they may look like black blobs with the naked eye, so you may need a magnifying glass, about x5. Then, if you trace back down the wires, it looks from your pics like it is soldered into the Garmin lead & then shrink wrapped. You need leads yellow leads 1 & 3 soldered up to the correct wires where they join the Garmin lead - sorry, I can't help with the trace colours, if any, as I run a NavIV(Gamin660) set-up. Maybe the purpose of each of the 4 pins has/can be identified & the wires traced back accordingly?

Good luck.
 
Brr its cold outside today ;)

Right just been out to play with my unit and prove / disprove ideas :)

Zumo 550 - into Genuine Garmin mount -

Garmin 4 pin plug into mount, but only 2 wires connected at Headstock via BMW aux loom +12Ve & -12Ve

Ignition off, no keys in and garmin placed into mount

Dead as a doornail - no activity from the Zumo

Key in but not turned on - Still the same Zumo dead

Key turned on, ECU & steppers cycle & garmin powers up without me having to press the on button on the unit

I waited until the unit settled and confirmed position Then turned iginition off


30 seconds later the message popped up on the Zumo

External power lost, do you wish to continue on battery Y/ N and a 30 second countdown

I confirmed No and the unit turned off
 
OK, here's my report!

Ignition off, key out. Garmin 4 pin plug into mount, but only 2 wires connected - speed sensor wire snipped, as instructed.

I put the Zumo on the mount - it powers up immediately! :mad:

Key in, ignition on, servo whizzes, leave it a min, turn ignition off and remove key - Zumo stays on indefinitely. If I take it off the cradle, I get the usual 'External power lost, do you wish to continue on battery Y/ N' and the 30 second countdown.

Last resort looks like being a GS-911 - I've had a very kind offer via pm from someone local who's happy to have a dabble to see if anything can be done, although I'll have to wait till the RT's back together after its strip down.

Tbh, the issue is a niggle more than anything else. It's not draining the battery, at least not with the direct lead - it was fully charged before I started fiddling, it still shows 12.6v after almost a week off the Acumen charger. I don't think I'll leave the mount connected via the headstock plug though, as that would probably drain it - if I don't find a fix, I'll simply use the direct to the battery, switched/fused connection.

Pete
 
The only other thing i can think of is that the 12v feeds go to other pins on your mount ..

But whats causing it to stay live?

Have you tried probing the plug at the headstock and seeing if that stays live after 30 seconds of igntion off??

If that goes off after 30 secs or so then its the Garmin end. if the headstock plug stays live after 30 seconds then its the ZFE / bike end

One last thought have you by anychance got two feeds at the Headstock?

One could be perma live, the other switched?



I'm back ;) J ust had a look through the wiring diagrams --

The bike is bloody loaded with sockets lol

You have (or may not have)

Off from the Diagnostic plug circuit -

Onboard socket - +12Ve & -12Ve (Brown & Red/Green)

Onboard socket 1 - +12Ve & -12Ve (Brown & Red/Green) (this takes its +12Ve feed branched from the onboard socket )

Optional extras socket - +12Ve & -12Ve & +10Ve (Brown & Blue/Green & Red / White)

There is also an optional accessory socket which looks like it feeds the Audio - this looks like it has a can resistor in to tell the ZFE if the audio is or isnt fitted
 
You dont have an optimate plugged into another socket do you ??

I only mention this as my GSA LC would power up the accessories when i plugged the optimate into the power socket
 
The fact the garmin powers up right away is a symptom at this point as the op has already stated the bike acc circuit stays live even with the cradle unplugged.

Either something is plugged into the acc/gps circuit (they are the same circuit) somewhere either plugged or soldered or there is a fault in the ZF unit. It's also possible that something is accidentally shorted somewhere via rubbed/worn insulation, finding that would be quite major but round the bars/headstock would be where I would look first.

Computers being permenantely live isn't a good thing even if it does only seem like an inconveniance. Best to fix it or at least prove the fault.
 
Santa-2512 said:
The only other thing i can think of is that the 12v feeds go to other pins on your mount ..

But whats causing it to stay live?

Have you tried probing the plug at the headstock and seeing if that stays live after 30 seconds of igntion off??

If that goes off after 30 secs or so then its the Garmin end. if the headstock plug stays live after 30 seconds then its the ZFE / bike end

One last thought have you by anychance got two feeds at the Headstock?

One could be perma live, the other switched?



I'm back ;) J ust had a look through the wiring diagrams --

The bike is bloody loaded with sockets lol

You have (or may not have)

Off from the Diagnostic plug circuit -

Onboard socket - +12Ve & -12Ve (Brown & Red/Green)

Onboard socket 1 - +12Ve & -12Ve (Brown & Red/Green) (this takes its +12Ve feed branched from the onboard socket )

Optional extras socket - +12Ve & -12Ve & +10Ve (Brown & Blue/Green & Red / White)

There is also an optional accessory socket which looks like it feeds the Audio - this looks like it has a can resistor in to tell the ZFE if the audio is or isnt fitted
Click to expand...

There is NO -12Ve (if this means negative 12V) on the bike I assume you mean 0V. The +10Ve is probably a digital pulse signal but your meter is reading an average value.

Ian
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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