Weird Ignition Circuit Fault: Neutral/clutch/sidestand-related

Cook1e · Mar 21, 2019

Hi Chaps,
Recently serviced my '01-model R1150GS (was ABS, but removed) and fitted new injectors from Tillman and I've been enjoying riding it. Done maybe 150 miles since the service and it's running best ever.

On the way to work this morning, the engine just stopped. No fuss, it just stopped running. I pulled into the side of the road and had a gander...

Oil, ignition, neutral lights on, but nothing on the fuel or temp gauges. No fuel pump whine on turning ignition on. Flicked about on the ignition and kill switches - nothing.

Got off the bike, took helmet off, lit a ciggie. Noticed the fuel & temp gauges were working. Tried to start it - fired up first time! Helmet back on, mounted the bike (oo-er, Matron!), flicked up the side-stand and it died.

Got off and lit another ciggie...

The only way it will start is with the bike in neutral and the side-stand down. Side-stand up, clutch in, in or out of gear - dead.

I got going again by bypassing relay 7 with a bit of gash wire. It runs fine like this, but there is no fuel pump whine and the temp & fuel gauges are on all the time, so when I got to work, I pulled fuse 6 before I left it. Came home after replacing the fuse and I'm now looking at the wiring diagram...

Damnit, won't let me add a picture

Link to Flikr: Wiring Diagram

I am suspecting one of the diodes marked in the diagram - V9400 or the one in the starter relay. Can anyone tell me where V9400 lives, or make a better suggestion?

Thanks in advance of the usual excellent wisdom :thumby:

AberdeenAngus · Mar 21, 2019

Clutch switch

DrFarkoff · Mar 21, 2019

So if you put it in gear with the sidestand up it dies as soon as you start to let the clutch out??

I think Aidan had this on his 1150

Check the instrument loom along the centre spar in front of the steering head

You may well find it has a lot of verdigris at the communal earth connections that are just crimped rather than soldered

Cook1e · Mar 21, 2019

Thanks chaps, will try both tomorrow. Any idea where I can find the diode V9400? I'm suspecting that as the function of the side-stand switch has reversed.

DrFarkoff · Mar 21, 2019

Cookie Check with Aidan 1150

but I am nearly sure thats what happened to him

Its a backfeed through another circuit up by using its earth on the dash board that caused the issue

Diodes Go open circuit or they go bang they don;t reverse polarity

Cook1e said:
Thanks chaps, will try both tomorrow. Any idea where I can find the diode V9400? I'm suspecting that as the function of the side-stand switch has reversed.

Cook1e · Mar 21, 2019

DrFarkoff said:
So if you put it in gear with the sidestand up it dies as soon as you start to let the clutch out??

No, it won't go at all with the side-stand up. If I put it in gear with the side-stand down, it stops, whether the clutch is in or out.

Cook1e · Mar 21, 2019

DrFarkoff said:
Diodes Go open circuit or they go bang they don;t reverse polarity

I'm thinking it's gone short-circuit, hence the reverse function of the side-stand switch.

DrFarkoff · Mar 21, 2019

They usually go pop before going short circuit

Cook1e · Mar 21, 2019

DrFarkoff said:
They usually go pop before going short circuit

Do you know where it lives? It would be an easy thing to test.

DrFarkoff · Mar 21, 2019

Cook1e said:
Do you know where it lives? It would be an easy thing to test.

Unfortunately I think it is in the ECU

Cook1e · Mar 21, 2019

DrFarkoff said:
Unfortunately I think it is in the ECU

No, it's on the diagram as a discrete unit, with connectors & wires to the side-stand switch and the starter relay. I'll try & trace the wires. Come to think of it, I recall seeing a 'whatchamacallit' clipped to the RH subframe top rail. I wonder if that's it?

Ian J Hartley · Mar 21, 2019

Diode V9400 is in the fuse box.

You will have to remove the bottom cover from the fuse box to get access to it

Cook1e · Mar 21, 2019

Thank you kind sir, I would never have found that! :clap

Ian J Hartley · Mar 21, 2019

Cook1e said:
No, it won't go at all with the side-stand up.

Sounds like you have lost the earth to the side stand switch (UP). Broken wire, or switch.

Cook1e said:
If I put it in gear with the side-stand down, it stops, whether the clutch is in or out.

It’s supposed to do that. It’s a safety function to stop you riding off with the side stand down.

Cook1e · Mar 21, 2019

Ian J Hartley said:
Sounds like you have lost the earth to the side stand switch (UP). Broken wire, or switch.

That's a possible - easier to check than the diode :thumb2

Ian J Hartley said:
It’s supposed to do that. It’s a safety function to stop you riding off with the side stand down.

Of course it is. Doh! :blast

Cook1e · Mar 22, 2019

Just been to look at the side-stand switch, but I can't tell if it's okay or not. What I have found is that the bike will only start if I bridge all 3 wires together, but it stops if I put it in gear. I'll start tracing wires and checking earths later, when I get back from work...

Ian J Hartley · Mar 22, 2019

I would say loss of earth from the side stand switch. Which is used when the stand is up to keep the motronic relay energised.

When you bridge the connectors across the switch, you are using the earth from the gearbox neutral switch to energise the motronic relay. So when you put it in gear, you will lose that earth, and the relay deenergises, shutting down the bike.

DrFarkoff · Mar 22, 2019

Ian if all three wires are bridged then isn't that telling the ECU that the stand is both up and down ??

As I said Earlier Aidan 1150GS's bike had this many moons ago and would start and run but any effort to easing the clutch lever out in gear would kill the bike

Turned out it was the instrument loom heavily corroded at the communal crimped earth connections

its 10 years ago now I think and I cannot recall exact details but do recall a "glow from a couple of dash warning lights which was the required connection using another path to earth

Ian J Hartley said:
I would say loss of earth from the side stand switch. Which is used when the stand is up to keep the motronic relay energised.When you bridge the connectors across the switch, you are using the earth from the gearbox neutral switch to energise the motronic relay. So when you put it in gear, you will lose that earth, and the relay deenergises, shutting down the bike.

Ian J Hartley · Mar 22, 2019

DrFarkoff said:
Ian if all three wires are bridged then isn't that telling the ECU that the stand is both up and down ??

As I said Earlier Aidan 1150GS's bike had this many moons ago and would start and run but any effort to easing the clutch lever out in gear would kill the bike

Turned out it was the instrument loom heavily corroded at the communal crimped earth connections

its 10 years ago now I think and I cannot recall exact details but do recall a "glow from a couple of dash warning lights which was the required connection using another path to earth

It is, but there are two seperate earths. One direct to earth for the stand up and the other earth via the gearbox neutral switch. If the stand UP earth was present, then there would be no problem bridging the connector as the earth would be present constantly. The trouble is the other earth which seems to be the only one present is a switched earth through the gearbox neutral switch.

Ian J Hartley · Mar 22, 2019

Earth path 1 Red for stand up and probably faulty.

Earth path 2 Green for stand down and neutral.

Weird Ignition Circuit Fault: Neutral/clutch/sidestand-related

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