JohnGS1100 Tuning Chip
- Thread starter uncle dick
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Roger 04 RT
Registered user
I don't think John has tried a lambda-shift device but here is a summary of those who have:
4% richer shift: smoother engine
6% shift: more torque, better roll-on throttle response
8-10% shift: more torque
12%: super, but only one report: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthr...1150RT-surging&p=947136&viewfull=1#post947136
Here is a very long report on lambda shifting:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749080
Here is my chart of torque at 8% made using multiple runs with my GS-911:
Here is an R1200GS, loading by dyno, 6% shift:
Good read on dyno testing starts here, a few pages:
http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthr...and-O2-Sensors&p=923684&viewfull=1#post923684
Good read on mixture adaptation, starts here:
http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthr...and-O2-Sensors&p=915428&viewfull=1#post915428
Thanks Roger,
I'm close to solving the problem.
The first solution is little additional price at close loop (injection maps). i make the AFR at close loop 14,3-14,5:1 by no problem for adapt, because the lambda is correct by ECU when is 0,97-1,03.
Also the second solution is this one :
There is a map, the ECU make a check of the agreement lambda "1", (128 in hexadecimal code). This value when i set it to 132 (in map) or higher the checks by rich mixture in close loop is "ok", and then ignore the adapt, so no cutting fuel.
At latest ECU (twin spark) this value (128) is variable to rpm (from 1.100-4.900). That i mean "lambda map". Variable for 8 set of maps (value 128-132). This is for all settings of CCP.
Just add +5 to these values, so the ECU when read a richer AFR at close loop accept this as correct. Also i think that there are no open loop at twin sparks. The ECU works typical at close loop at all revs, the AFR can be "correct richer" by lambda maps only at high revs (after 5000+ (has value 132 at latest cells).
By richer fuel, the Lambda narroband send to ECU a voltage 0,55-0,8V, the ECU accept this signal in hex code Value=132+ compares by value of cells (132) so is OK for ECU.
The voltage by AFR Lambda =1 is variable near to 0,45 Volts, that means at ECU value 128, So accepts by ECU only at 700-4.900 revs of rpm (cells in map is 128).
I make the test to a R1150RS and to a R1150GS, i m waiting for results after few miles..
I'm close to solving the problem.
The first solution is little additional price at close loop (injection maps). i make the AFR at close loop 14,3-14,5:1 by no problem for adapt, because the lambda is correct by ECU when is 0,97-1,03.
Also the second solution is this one :
There is a map, the ECU make a check of the agreement lambda "1", (128 in hexadecimal code). This value when i set it to 132 (in map) or higher the checks by rich mixture in close loop is "ok", and then ignore the adapt, so no cutting fuel.
At latest ECU (twin spark) this value (128) is variable to rpm (from 1.100-4.900). That i mean "lambda map". Variable for 8 set of maps (value 128-132). This is for all settings of CCP.
Just add +5 to these values, so the ECU when read a richer AFR at close loop accept this as correct. Also i think that there are no open loop at twin sparks. The ECU works typical at close loop at all revs, the AFR can be "correct richer" by lambda maps only at high revs (after 5000+ (has value 132 at latest cells).
By richer fuel, the Lambda narroband send to ECU a voltage 0,55-0,8V, the ECU accept this signal in hex code Value=132+ compares by value of cells (132) so is OK for ECU.
The voltage by AFR Lambda =1 is variable near to 0,45 Volts, that means at ECU value 128, So accepts by ECU only at 700-4.900 revs of rpm (cells in map is 128).
I make the test to a R1150RS and to a R1150GS, i m waiting for results after few miles..
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
I think something will happen when you make changes but the reasoning doesn't make sense to me.
In the areas supported by closed loop, since the fueling will resort to lambda=1, why do you make any fueling changes?
The Motronic won't accept a richer closed loop value than lambda = 1 since it doesn't and can't read voltage to determine AFR. Although that is your theory, the Motronic is only interested in the voltages near 450 mV as I explained earlier.
In the areas supported by closed loop, since the fueling will resort to lambda=1, why do you make any fueling changes?
The Motronic won't accept a richer closed loop value than lambda = 1 since it doesn't and can't read voltage to determine AFR. Although that is your theory, the Motronic is only interested in the voltages near 450 mV as I explained earlier.
Butchpro
Registered user
I fully support this opinion.
John, about your special modification of bin made for me. Flashed and tried it today in Moscow traffic. The first impression is very good. Two points: the smoother work at idle and low revs, and more power at high revs. 120 km/h with negligible open throttle. Thank you.
Let us know about adapt, after 200-300 miles. I think that it is ok.
I make little changes at AFR (close loop), it is a litlle richer, as you see (smoother work).. You will have much better consumption, also the torque and power is higher.
A friend yesterday tell me, that he drive his R1150 GS (stage 5 chip), by consumption one tank (20 lit.) 525 Km !! He has the twin spark model 2004 R1150GS.
Ιs incredible!!
Tell us how about your consumption by R1200C.
.
Here is some help for full adjust your bike :
The TPS must be setting on stock settings :
Here is the pdf file for instructions
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/tps3.1.pdf
CCP settings.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...-Tuning-Chip&p=3889024&viewfull=1#post3889024
Throttle Body Synch
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/TBS4Dv1.0.pdf
http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/r1100_throt_bod_sync.shtml
Some help for all function at R1100-1150 :
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/
After all, at final, you can adjust and Synch the iddle speed (1050-1100 rpm) by the little screws behing throttles.
The TPS must be setting on stock settings :
Here is the pdf file for instructions
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/tps3.1.pdf
CCP settings.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...-Tuning-Chip&p=3889024&viewfull=1#post3889024
Throttle Body Synch
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/TBS4Dv1.0.pdf
http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/r1100_throt_bod_sync.shtml
Some help for all function at R1100-1150 :
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/
After all, at final, you can adjust and Synch the iddle speed (1050-1100 rpm) by the little screws behing throttles.
Sorry to ask a potentially stupid question but I doubt I'm the only person a little overwhelmed by the tech in this thread.
Does the r1100/850 series 'adapt'?
No, I have not tried the stage 5 chip john. I'm content with the stage 4 chip for the moment. I'd like to understand more before I change the chip for the stage five.
Sent by SOB
Does the r1100/850 series 'adapt'?
No, I have not tried the stage 5 chip john. I'm content with the stage 4 chip for the moment. I'd like to understand more before I change the chip for the stage five.
Sent by SOB
Is adapting a good, bad or indifferent thing?
I'll report back on the stage 5 chip later but having just watched five episodes of 'road kill' on youtube, I understand more of what you guys are talking about.
I still am amazed by how much rideable my bike is.
Sent by SOB
I'll report back on the stage 5 chip later but having just watched five episodes of 'road kill' on youtube, I understand more of what you guys are talking about.
I still am amazed by how much rideable my bike is.
Sent by SOB
SOB.. you will need to change your standard exhaust to enjoy Stage 5. I can short shift at 2000rpm on level roads to 5th gear and the bike will pull cleanly ..... at 4500 the bike feels much stronger and it continues onto and indicated 8000 rpm plus till the limiter kicks in ..... consumption wise i can say i saw an improvement even though i was flogging it most of the time .... i usually do approx 270km abd i fill up as the warning light will be permanently on ... this time round I got 300kms and i did flog the bike
And to think I sold my Remus system a year back. Other than the idle speed when warm I'm delighted with my chip from john. I might pop the stage five chip in at the weekend and see the difference.
Sent by SOB
Sent by SOB
No Ralphy, occurs only in a few ECU and chip if exaggerate in adding fuel in a closed loop.
Also i found the adapt problem and i make better chips. I was send you as i promise the stage 5 chip, try it, it is more powerfully by better consumption. BMW boxers bikes takes very high improvements, I have personally stayed surprised, there are many maps in to the bin file, for many improvements
.There is no particular cause for concern, i just wrote for adapt, for some (perhaps) bikers whose try the chip, for knowable..
The stage 5 chip needed a free air filter (like K/N, DNA or any else aftermarket). Yes works better by de-cat system exhaust (more powerful at high) or by after market exhausts too but i make a different stage 5 chip for stock exhaust or depending of any hardware setup of bike..
Keep tuning
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
Any Oilhead with an O2 sensor will adapt all closed loop fueling back to stock. So yes, an R1100 or R850 may adapt if it has the O2 sensor and a pink or yellow coding plug. If an r1100 (not an r1100s which is really an 1150) has no coding plug it will not adapt. The pre-2002 850 is like an R1100, later model 850s are based on the 1150 Motronic--they always adapt.
Adapting is a good thing. It allows your R1100 to cope with E10 fuel and aging of the sensors and engine parts.
Ok guys - hers my input to John's chips thread
Background : previously owned 99 1100 with lambda, cat and CO pot in uk, same bike in Aus - very similar characteristics.
currently own a 95 1100 with NO lambda or Cat as standard - but has CO pot.
99 bike had laser pipe and opened air trumpet
95 bike has standard everything at the moment
As standard , the 95 bike seems much livelier with a more pronounced step at about 5500 rpm - whether this was due to less power at lower revs, i can't answer. I have been through and set everything to as close as possible to correct ie TPS and throttle sync., valves, plugs etc.. I've done this a lot of times so its a known procedure to me. The previous owner said it was running rough but it was badly out of adjustment everywhere..
The downside is that the clutch is starting to slip .
I contacted John about a test chip and he sent me one that was apparently a stage 5 - this made the bike much more torque to the extent the clutch slipped much earlier and with less throttle - a good indication if you like.
However, the fuel consumption was much higher and i felt that this wasn't worth having for what i need the bike for - also the idle was fairly 'lumpy'.
I had a discussion with john about this on FB messenger and he sent me another chip - for a stage 4 set up. This i could now feel was the better chip for me straight away. idle was only slightly lumpier over stock, torque and power not as crude at lower revs and a much nicer bike to ride.
Overall the bike is much quicker A to B and feels modern again. would definitely recommend for fast road / touring whereas stage 5 is for max power only in my book - not really what i wanted or the road with a GS.
Hope this helps anyones decision to buy a chip - if you're thinking of selling its worth modernising first to see if it wakes it up a bit !
Background : previously owned 99 1100 with lambda, cat and CO pot in uk, same bike in Aus - very similar characteristics.
currently own a 95 1100 with NO lambda or Cat as standard - but has CO pot.
99 bike had laser pipe and opened air trumpet
95 bike has standard everything at the moment
As standard , the 95 bike seems much livelier with a more pronounced step at about 5500 rpm - whether this was due to less power at lower revs, i can't answer. I have been through and set everything to as close as possible to correct ie TPS and throttle sync., valves, plugs etc.. I've done this a lot of times so its a known procedure to me. The previous owner said it was running rough but it was badly out of adjustment everywhere..
The downside is that the clutch is starting to slip .
I contacted John about a test chip and he sent me one that was apparently a stage 5 - this made the bike much more torque to the extent the clutch slipped much earlier and with less throttle - a good indication if you like.
However, the fuel consumption was much higher and i felt that this wasn't worth having for what i need the bike for - also the idle was fairly 'lumpy'.
I had a discussion with john about this on FB messenger and he sent me another chip - for a stage 4 set up. This i could now feel was the better chip for me straight away. idle was only slightly lumpier over stock, torque and power not as crude at lower revs and a much nicer bike to ride.
Overall the bike is much quicker A to B and feels modern again. would definitely recommend for fast road / touring whereas stage 5 is for max power only in my book - not really what i wanted or the road with a GS.
Hope this helps anyones decision to buy a chip - if you're thinking of selling its worth modernising first to see if it wakes it up a bit !
Finally the stage 4 chip, with a little richer fuel at middle and variable faster timing advance at all revs is the best for R1100-1150 engines.
Thanks Phil
Thanks Phil
jeremyj
Registered user
Hi I have put stage 4 chip in my 1150gs really very pleased I also have slightly higher tickover when warm 12/1300 rpm have left it for the time being although I am on a 2000 mile trip in a couple of weeks and also really good on fuel.
Roger - I have a 1996 R850R european spec with no sensors in the exhaust system. Am I right in assuming that mine will not adapt?
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
No O2 sensor means no adaptation from short and long term fuel trims, that's right.
That means you need to tell john whether your fuel is pure gas with a stoic ratio of 14.7:1 or if you run fuel with ethanol or mtbe. The difference to every cell of the fuel table can be 4%. Without Adaptation your "chip" needs to have different settings for different stoichiometric ratio of the fuels you might encounter--and I'm not talking about the fuel's octane, which is a different issue.
Once you get the "right" new chip for your non-cat bike, then you should adjust idle CO to 2-2.5%, which is just a little richer than the BMW spec. Note that this should be readjusted for fuel-stoichiometry if you want good idling at 1100 rpm.
If I owned an open loop 850 or 1100, I'd just boost the fuel pressure. Much simpler and safer than re-chipping. Here's a picture of how I boosted the pressure on my 1150. It mounts very nicely in the fuel return line from the fuel distributor.
Thanks for the replies John and Roger.
Input the stage 5 in yesterday. A lot more top end power but I don't know if I need it! When I have more time, I'll PM you on Facebook John. The stage 4 might be for me if the idle speed could be resolved. I had the same issues with the stage 5... Revs climbing to 1400 at idle when hot.
Input the stage 5 in yesterday. A lot more top end power but I don't know if I need it! When I have more time, I'll PM you on Facebook John. The stage 4 might be for me if the idle speed could be resolved. I had the same issues with the stage 5... Revs climbing to 1400 at idle when hot.
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