Advanced Training - SwiftlySorted - any views?

DoctorZippy

DoctorZippy

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Hi All,

Following my accident in Slovakia, I'm considering taking some more advanced training to refresh my skills and to get rid of any bad habits I've picked up in the 10 years since my IAM test...

I plan to take my RoSPA test, but first am looking at doing a 3-day Advanced course with SwiftlySorted (ironically run by the guy that organises the local RoSPA group :augie).

Has anyone any experience of them or the "Mike Waite" Advanced motorcycle course?

Paul
 
I did the course when Mike Waite actually ran it. He was based in Dorset. Nothing special though.

I have done training with this guy at www.ride-smart.co.uk, ironically he also has something to do with the Manchester group.

Laik
 
I try to do at least one day every year to refresh my riding skills. I have used Simon for the last couple of years & have already booked for May next year.

Nice guy, knows what it's all about. I know one lad up Clithero way who passed his RoSPA test at Gold last month & Simon was his instructor.
 
I did the swiftlysorted bike course earlier this year, was a real eye opener to, just how much you don't see, when your riding...make u very aware of all the road users around you............and shows you how to make good progress, and make yourself been seen, by others on the road......its well worth the money..............only downside is that once you have done the course you become, very aware of how many bad bike riders there are on the roads.........go for it you will love it........Terry is a really good trainer...
I've joined the manchester rospa as well, they have a rideout on the last sunday of every month and anybody is welcome to rideout with them.....:thumb
 
Thanks both...

Will have a chat with Simon, as he's a lot closer to me than Terry...

Will be in a few weeks, though, as I'm still getting the strength back in my leg (but was out on the bike for 6hrs today, so it's coming along nicely :thumb2)

Cheers both! :beerjug:
 
DoctorZippy said:
Hi All,

Following my accident in Slovakia, I'm considering taking some more advanced training to refresh my skills and to get rid of any bad habits I've picked up in the 10 years since my IAM test...

I plan to take my RoSPA test, but first am looking at doing a 3-day Advanced course with SwiftlySorted (ironically run by the guy that organises the local RoSPA group :augie).

Has anyone any experience of them or the "Mike Waite" Advanced motorcycle course?

Paul
Click to expand...


If you've already done the IAM course join Manchester RoSPA group, do their course, and save yourself a small fortune.

Rob

p.s. bet he tries to sell you Ultraseal :)
 
Last edited:
the swiftly sorted course is more advanced than the rospa gold, you learn more. Don't get me wrong the rospa is good, but they only teach you so much, the police advanced riding technigues course is well worth the money.........and it may just save your life one day..
 
Janie said:
the swiftly sorted course is more advanced than the rospa gold, you learn more. Don't get me wrong the rospa is good, but they only teach you so much, the police advanced riding technigues course is well worth the money.........and it may just save your life one day..
Click to expand...

This is an interesting statement. What do you base this on? Do you have a Gold?

Laik
 
robb said:
seconded - I'm curious too
I did my RoSPA course with Terry, I'd be interested to know what he's offering in addition.

Rob

RoSPA gold / IAM observer
Click to expand...

Hi Rob,

Was your "course" with Terry simply with him acting as a RoSPA observer, or as part of his training operation (ie full instruction, paid for)? If the latter, then that's what he offers...

I'll let Janie answer specifically whether this is worth more than a "gold" as I've no experience of it. Have booked a day with Simon as suggested above, primarily because he's closer to me (for 25th as that's the first day I can make :mad:). Will see how it goes, but my aim is to take the RoSPA test early next year.

Paul
 
I've done Mike Waite's courses, including the Instructor course.

The RoSPA Diploma is a teaching qualification and not a riding one. That being said, you have to demonstrate riding to a 'Gold' standard when you start the course.

The technique that Waite uses of 'continuous commentary' can be useful, but some riders find the constant verbal input very distracting, so it isn't for everyone.
 
Droopy Dick said:
The RoSPA Diploma is a teaching qualification and not a riding one. That being said, you have to demonstrate riding to a 'Gold' standard when you start the course.
Click to expand...

The Gold is a starting point for entry. The first day your riding is assessed by the Instructor (Police Class 1 Instructor with Diploma) & a Gold standard ride is a requirement. You then have to ride for next five days at Gold standard & are continually assessed over this period. This is in addition to learning high -level instructional techniques. Even travelling backwards & forwards from the Hotel to RoSPA HQ & back is assessed, the examiner stays in the same hotel. Drop your standards & you're off the course.

On the final day one part of the examinations is a requalification to Gold standard carried out by the examiner - a second Police Class 1 Instructor with Diploma.

Laik
 
Droopy Dick said:
The technique that Waite uses of 'continuous commentary' can be useful, but some riders find the constant verbal input very distracting, so it isn't for everyone.
Click to expand...

Continuous commentary is poor teaching practice & shows a lack of understanding of how adults learn.

Laik
 
laikin' art said:
Continuous commentary is poor teaching practice & shows a lack of understanding of how adults learn.

Laik
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll bite... Just how do adults learn?

I've always been taught that there are a wide range of different "learning styles", and that there is no single way that's best for anyone...

I can see "continuous commentary" as one mechanism for imparting information and providing an example. If it's not the only instructional technique used, then I can see it would be a useful tool - for some.
 
DoctorZippy said:
Ok, I'll bite... Just how do adults learn?
Click to expand...

Adults learn through a process called andragogy which involves the learner being guided by the tutor. This is different to the traditional method of teaching, a process called pedagogy, which involves the tutor instructing the learners as in traditional teaching of children & adolescents.

Pedagogy model suggests:

the teacher dominates learning;
teacher does most of the talking;
teacher dictates pace of learning;
students are rather passive.

Andragogy model suggests:

learner assume responsibility for own learning;
learners can make decisions about how they learn best;
learners can think about the learning process & reflect on what they have learned;
learners understand how to use learning resources;
learning becomes as active & parcipitative as possible.

Continuous commentary (instruction) is modelled on pedagogy. The instructor is dominating the learning & it is not really required with adults. It may be useful for a very short periods of time but should very quickly become redundant & as the learner becomes more proficient should not be required at all.

Continuous commentary is used for CBT & DAS for the first parts of the road instruction. As the learner becomes more proficient it is hardly used at all.

There is also a problem with task shedding, or information overload, when continuous commentary is used. What are you concentrating on?
 
laikin' art said:
DoctorZippy said:
Ok, I'll bite... Just how do adults learn?
Click to expand...

Adults learn through a process called andragogy which involves the learner being guided by the tutor. This is different to the traditional method of teaching, a process called pedagogy, which involves the tutor instructing the learners as in traditional teaching of children & adolescents.

Pedagogy model suggests:

the teacher dominates learning;
teacher does most of the talking;
teacher dictates pace of learning;
students are rather passive.

Andragogy model suggests:

learner assume responsibility for own learning;
learners can make decisions about how they learn best;
learners can think about the learning process & reflect on what they have learned;
learners understand how to use learning resources;
learning becomes as active & parcipitative as possible.

Continuous commentary (instruction) is modelled on pedagogy. The instructor is dominating the learning & it is not really required with adults. It may be useful for a very short periods of time but should very quickly become redundant & as the learner becomes more proficient should not be required at all.

Continuous commentary is used for CBT & DAS for the first parts of the road instruction. As the learner becomes more proficient it is hardly used at all.

There is also a problem with task shedding, or information overload, when continuous commentary is used. What are you concentrating on?
Click to expand...

Ugh!!!!!!!

More of this 'student centred' rubbish from the 1970s. A bit like this utter nonsense of calling school pupils 'learners' rather than students or, indeed, pupils. Like it or not, the teacher does have the power in the classroom and is the leader of the group. It's an abdication of that responsibility to throw all the onus for 'learning' on the 'learner'. But then that might be why so many kids leave school functionally illiterate, innumerate, and poorly socialised.

It all depends on the situation and what information you're trying to impart.

Quite often, even with adults, the talk 'n chalk approach is the fastest method, more especially if they grew up in a time when 'student centred experiential learning' wasn't the buzz phrase du jour. I feel an awful attack of the Kolb learning cycle about to hit me.

But I find your definition of the pedagogic approach limited. I certainly had that sort of teaching at school, but even so we were continually being tested for our understanding, and not just sitting as dumb lumps of meat.

I found the continuous commentary very distracting, not least because I was often scanning hazards/threats in a different order to the instructor and having my mind refocused on something I'd already dealt with messed with my riding.

In fact, you're not likely to thrown off the Diploma course is you fail to attain Gold on the Monday morning, as long as they can see that you're there or thereabouts. By the Friday, you will have to be at that standard.

Oh, and the course tutors don't always stay at the same hotel - even if you are staying at one and not commuting to the course centre daily. Or at least that wasn't the case with the Exeter course and London courses earlier this year. I can't see why Birmingham courses should be different.
 
Aren't you going a bit off topic here - the guy was asking for views on Swiftlysorted not the RoSPA diploma.

When I did my RoSPA course under Terry he had just done the commentary course and tried to use it during our rides.
I found it very off putting as quite often I saw the hazard and dealt with it before he commented on it purely because I was in front and had a better/earlier view.

My question still stands - what "extra" do you get by paying for an advanced course with swiftlysorted that you don't get from the standard RoSPA one.
 
robb said:
Aren't you going a bit off topic here - with no disrespect to anyone - it ALWAYS seems to happen when ANY bunch of Bikers talk "Training" - dunno why / just is :nenau

My question still stands - what "extra" do you get by paying for an advanced course with swiftlysorted that you don't get from the standard RoSPA one.
Click to expand...

i'm curious too. not looking to find fault:rolleyes: / quite the opposite :thumb2
hoping that "Extra" = Better :)

~~
Og,
RoSPA Gold
RoSPA DIP.
 
you're right there.
Tyre threads ALWAYS go the same way too.

So has anyone done either RoSPA or IAM standard offerings AND the swiftlysorted course who can comment on the "extra".
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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