The inside of my FD

I reckon the black oil on the first change comes from the wearing off of the black colouration of the gears following its heat treatment to harden the faces during manufacture. After that the oil ought to come out vaugely golden in colour and does indeed small of cat piss (the smell is due to to very similar sulpur compounds used in EP oils and indeed found in tom cat's pee). However, when my pinion bearings started to fail the oil became black again, thinner, and smelt like a tom cat with really, really bad kidneys. I think this is a warning sign to keep a look out for. Key diagnostic is a wiggle in the input shaft, if that has any play in it the bearings are on their way out.

p.s I'm not normally known for smelling tom cats by the way
 
patzx12 said:
Finally got the pinion shaft out it put up quite a fight but I boshed it.
I had to make up the special tools. Don’t try this at home, this is not a DIY job. The pinion nut and sleeve is so tight it you tried it in a home workshop the nut would stay tight and the workshop would turn.
Remember my FD was showing only mild symptoms of failure but none the less it was banjaxed.
The FD was perfect inside but for the small needle roller on the end of the pinion shaft.
This is the last part to come out of the FD, no wonder BMW throw them away rather than rebuilding them.
If I continued to ride the bike the bearing would have disintegrated and released the needles into the gears OUCH.
Click to expand...

I note that the Inside of the final drive unit is very black and the oil dirty. I have just changed the oil in my GS 1200 and it was nerly as bad. There is only one plug on the early bikes but the new ones have both filler and drain plugs. This long life idea don't seem such a good idea at all where do all this cru come from to make it black mine had lots of small particles in the oil. makes you wonder if they actually clean the thing before putting in the oil. Anyone know the amount to replace the oil? :beerjug:
 
Just out of curiosity, would it be at all possible to lessen the pinion shaft diameter (grinding as opposed to turning with it being so hard) and fit a more substantial larger needle roller bearing or a grooved bearing/s? Obviously as long as its within its mechanical strength and with a decent radius applied, would this be a better bet? Having gone this far on a build I would be asking myself if this is going to be better than replacing like for like.

I dont know what the final drive insides look like in the flesh but your pictures are quite clear and your write-up is very easy to follow.

Has anyone come to the conclusion as to why this bearing fails?
As you say, the larger bearings arent worn and maybe an upgrade is all that may be required.....G
 
Julio de Torremolinos said:
Why BMW fits those bearings with covered sides in a place full of lubircant. Inside the gear box we found the same stuff. Is that a good thing? Could we replace them by "open" bearings?
Thansk for advice, if anybody knows.
Click to expand...

Hello,

I found this very, very interesting thread :thumb because of a link in a German GS-Forum.

To answer that particular question: the inner bearing is not lubricated by the FD oil that's why it is a sealed one. If you have a look at the picture you see that the seal ring is between the oil and the bearing.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0382&mospid=51729&btnr=33_1265&hg=33&fg=10

Best regards,
Bert
 
International FD-Poll

We've are approaching 100 votes by now. This is still not enough but makes already for a much more interesting read clicky .

I just want to get a piece of serious background as a foundation for future FD discussions. That's all. Please go voting, thanks!
 
You´re right. Arrow is wrong. At 85k kms, I had to change the "outside" bearing. It got wrong mainly due to off road drvie wth wobbly spoke wheel. I needed a hydraulic press to get all the parts away from the axle. I put new sealed bearing ( aftermarket brand:50€) and a oil seal 1 m/m thicker (10 m/m in stead of 9 m/m) and i chaged the O ring by very slightly thiker one (3 m/m in stead of 2,6 m/m) and bike is perfect now, I have done Malaga-Burgos-Logroño and back to Malaga without any problems.

Tjis oputer sealed bearing needs to be changed for sure after 80k to 100k kms, for sure.
 
Berte said:
I found this very, very interesting thread :thumb because of a link in a German GS-Forum.
Click to expand...

Cross-linking.

Well the German FD thread has also grown into adult-like conversation (not as usual a junk-box after the 2. page). Might be a bit of a language barrier for you UK guys, since you are not very much interested in a second language. But I know some are interested what happens beyond the waters, plus there are some sexy FD pics: Clicky
 
TeZREX said:
BMW have changed the needle roller to a larger diameter for the ten plate bike
Click to expand...

You will probably find that the change in Bearing diameter was done at the same time as putting in the breather...... So there will be a large number of 10 plate bikes with the smaller dia. bearing..... I could be wrong
 
Kremmen said:
You will probably find that the change in Bearing diameter was done at the same time as putting in the breather...... So there will be a large number of 10 plate bikes with the smaller dia. bearing..... I could be wrong
Click to expand...

The change in bearing diameter was done in 06 so unless they have done it again someone's got the wrong info'.
 
TeaPig said:
The change in bearing diameter was done in 06 so unless they have done it again someone's got the wrong info'.
Click to expand...

:bow to your superior knowledge, i only looked at the 04 and 10 fische Schoolboy error. Has this made a difference to the reliability???

How much is the drive unit new from BMW???:eek:eek

TeZ
 
TeZREX said:
:bow to your superior knowledge, i only looked at the 04 and 10 fische Schoolboy error. Has this made a difference to the reliability???

TeZ
Click to expand...

No worries. If it has made a difference to reliability it doesn't seem to be significant as there are plenty of post-06 bikes with failed FD's.

No idea what a new one costs, I'd guess about a grand including fitting, though the latter is an easy job.

The 2010 bike has a strong magnet in the drain plug which seems to do a good job of catching all the iron wearing off the gears and bearings and keeps the oil very clean. I personally reckon this will go along way to reduce wear in the pinion bearing but only time will tell

Although there are one or two firms beginning to offer rebuilds I don't see them advertising their services very widely. It's got to be nice little earner as every GS (not just 1200's of course) that's still on the road at 50-80k is going to have worn internals to some degree, or be on the second FD already. That's a steady income stream provided the job can be costed and turned around for significantly less than a new FD from BuMW
 
Magnetic drain plug

Without trying to hijack this briiliant thread does anyone know if it is possible to fit a magnetic drain plug on the FD for an 05 reg bike please?

If it's already been posted, apologies and I'll get back in my corner :augie
 
shel750 said:
Without trying to hijack this briiliant thread does anyone know if it is possible to fit a magnetic drain plug on the FD for an 05 reg bike please?
Click to expand...

Good question. The oldest drives like yours just had the 'not-a-level' plug at the rear, they then added the drain plug late 06 and on the 2010 or thereabouts ditched the rear 'not-a-level' plug leaving just the drain, which has the strong magnet in.

I'd guess there's a good chance the 2010 drain plug would fit the 'not-a-level' hole, they certainly look similar but can't be sure

The speed sensor does however catch some metal as this too has a magnet in it. An increase in metal 'fur' on sensor is an indication wear is increasing, as is the blackness and smelliness of the oil
 
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