July 2018 - ride back from Tuscany

ymfb

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Next year we have booked a week in a small apartment in Tuscany. For the outbound journey we have booked the Dusseldorf to Verona overnight Motorail train for ourselves and the GS.

I would like to return on a more easterly route than France partially because I have not ridden in Germany before and without any thoughts about quality of roads, destination quality I thought something like the following return journey

Setting out from Radda in Chianti on Saturday morning

Night 1 - Lake Como

Night 2 - Stuttgart

Night 3 - Parc Naturel Régional des Ardennes

Night 4 - Wiltshire (home)

If that seems a bit ambitious I could add a day or two. Im looking for recommendations of roads or hotels en route, thanks.

Steve
 
Where, between the Ardennes and Wiltshire, do you intend to cross the Channel? That'll probably have some effect on the routes bods offer up for day four. I know some great roads to ride from the Ardennes to Calais in a day, useless though if you want to be in Wiltshire by 20:00 latest with the kettle on and the bike washed.

I pumped Radda in Chianti to Wiltshire into Google maps and guess that you'll aim to cross at Calais, particularly as you plan to come from the eastern side of France / the western side of Germany, perhaps? It's the way I'd probably go if I was coming from Germany via the Ardennes but, hey, we are all different.

The other thing Google maps told me (with a bit of pulling about to go via Como, Stuttgart and the Ardennes) is that it's a long way..... and you want bods to recommend roads to ride and come up with hotels? From Como to Stuttgart, you'll probably be crossing Switzerland. Are you a "I never take motorways and Swiss vignettes are a bloody rip off, mate" merchant? If so, you might well have a very long day ahead of you riding the 'must do' Swiss passes that some well meaning bods are bound to ping up and you'll still be many miles from Stuttgart. Similarly, you'll be buggered when someone tells you of great Ardennes roads to hoon (and chill) on, when you really should be hopping smartly towards the Channel and the safety of home. You'll get a long list (or a very short one) which will find you passing the front door of some obscure 'must do' German pension at 10 AM, rendering it useless or you'll be miles away from the next 'must do' hotel at 10 PM when it's peeing down and you've got a puncture. What has got you hellbent on Stuttgart? Is it a must do stopover as you must visit your cousin? Or is it just a large industrial city you've plucked at random?

Have a look at the sticky on Germany and the KurvenKoenig website. It's all in Kraut (I don't speak it either) but it's a wealth of ideas on roads to ride on a regional basis. Cut'n'paste at will.

The train solved your route problem on the way out; time for you to get busy, I'd suggest. There are loads of Ardennes hotels recommended on UKGSer already and a decent number for the Italian lakes. For Stuttgart, go to Booking.com and / or TripAdvisor.... good for the Ardennes and other places, too. Come on, you found your Chiantishire apartment, you can find hotel places that will suit you and your pocket the same way... and you can then find roads to join them up, surely? As to whether you need to add a day or two is up to you. Put your rough route from Chianti to your front door in Wilstshire into Google maps. Look at the distance and divide that by the number of days you plan on allowing for your return journey. Do they look reasonable for a daily average, when you want to stroll down to breakfast in your PJ's at 10 AM, plan on avoiding all motorways, definitely plan on stopping regularly for flower pressing enroute and be chilling with a beer in hand at four thirty? If so, great. No? Then change your alarm clock settings, hoon a bit (or a lot) faster and / or add a day or two, perhaps?


PS I know I recommend RiDE's routes a lot but, with a bit of imagination, they might help you. Mix'n'match some of their ideas into something that will suit you, perhaps?

PPS The bikermates that cross via Rotterdam enroute for Switzerland (and when coming back) will maybe take some more Germanly orientated routes. Have a look at their ideas, as you'll probably be wanting to go a pretty similar way, perhaps? That is until you head leftwards towards the Ardennes and on to Wiltshire.... don't forget to turn or you'll end up in Hull.
 
Thanks Wapping, useful stuff as always.

Most likely we will cross La Manche using the frequent Eurostar service from Coquelles, Pas-de-Calais to Folkestone. We have Tesco points to use.

I’m not concerned about the Ardennes to Wiltshire section as I have travelled that part of Belgium and France many times and will probably take route 1 Home after a convivial breakfast and a final Jambon Fromage Baguette from the terminal.

I have visited the area around Bologna, Lugo, and Venice as well as a drive up to Trento so it’s the really the route after that I have no previous experience of and are looking for ideas, Lake Como and Stuttgart have no attraction other than possible locations after a days ride. It might be they are too far apart and I should consider other places.

I will check out your suggestions and see if anything else appears from the gloom,

Thanks again for your observations.
 
Picked up some maps of Italy, well Amazon delivered them today.

Will start thinking a bit more carefully about the rest of the route before buying some maps of the Fatherland, probably have the maps of Benelux and northern France.

I do like a paper map, especially on tour.
 
If your ok sprining for a vignette and going through Switzerland, head for Waldshutt area of Germany (plenty of nice places to stay in the area) and take the B500 to Baden Baden.
IIRC when we went to Tuscany there was a rather scenic motorway from Genoa to Piacenza I think it was the A15 ?
 
The road from Lake Como to Landeck in Austria via St Moritz and Zernez is a cracker.

An alternative if Lake Como is optional is to go past my favourite of the Italian Lakes, Lake Garda. Then up through the Brenta Dolomites and over the Timmelsjoch into Austria. This is one of the iconic Alpine passes and so much better than Stelvio.
 
Thanks Wapping, useful stuff as always.

No problem.

Me? I'd save your Germany idea until you want to head to say, Garmisch. Better still, 'Do Germany' properly, as it makes France look small. Last year, I was lucky enough to do a 20 day, full lap of the outside of Germany, clockwise. I'd recommend it to anyone.

I'd go: Italian lakes, Black Forest, Vosges. Then depending on time, maybe Nancy (take the motorway around, trust me) Metz, Luxembourg / Ardennes to Calais. Or.... Vosges, Nancy, Reims, Calais

If you didn't mind a bit of a detour coming from Como to the Black Forest, detour a bit to Scaffhausen and the Rhine Falls.
 
Is that going too be too short a first day? I'd suggest aiming for Chiavenna (definitely better than stopping in Como). If you're going to take the Futa Pass (or Giogo, della Sambuca or Muraglione, or one of the other passes) between Florence and Tuscany, that will put a lot of time into the day. If you're mixing motorways into the route to cover ground you'll be able to do some twisty roads – you could do them in Tuscany or in the Alps – personally, I'd go for the Alps. Unless you have a burning desire to battle the traffic on the western side of Lake Como, or want to ride past the Guzzi factory on the eastern shore, you could instead take Passo San Marco from Bergamo – a great road, though it cuts out the lake.

From Chiavenna you're over Splugen and into Switzerland. A vignette will make life easier. I'd be inclined to do Oberalp, Futa and Grimsel, then a bit of Swiss motorway to get past Berne, heading for Belfort (or a bit further north perhaps) in the French Jura. From there it's a less motorway-ish day up through the Vosges to the Ardennes. And you know your way from there.

ETA: Actually, I'd go Radda > Madonna di Campiglio >
Then Mad di Campiglio > Lindau (via Gavia, Stelvio, Fluella),
Then Lindau > La Roche en Ardennes/Bastogne
Then home
 
Simon W's suggestion via Lindau certainly works. Similarly, his observation about the first day is valid, too.

This thread does highlight the difficulties bods face when answering the "What's the best way, with hotels please, from A to E via B, C and D?", when A and E are many miles apart, made harder when someone has thrown in, "I want to go to Como" or wherever. Nobody knows why the fellow wants / needs to go to Como, though it is a popular enough spot, I guess. The answer to the question might well be: "If I wanted to go to Como and then on to location C (Stuttgart) , then on to D (Ardennes) and then E (Calais / home) in four days, I maybe wouldn't be starting from here".... or maybe I would, if I could plan it to suit myself. We saw a similar thing with Rasher's request for assistance between Roscoff and the Auvergne. Who the hell wants to go to Roscoff? Nobody (except someone in Plymouth or Cork, understandably) thought it was a good idea, unless Rasher really wanted to spend his time bimbling in Brittany, which he didn't.

OP, see if you can refine your plans a bit and then resubmit them. If fellows can see your route, with its overnight stops, it might jog their memory as to a 'Must do hotel' or, even better, a 'Must do' road somewhere along the line. Hopefully that 'Must do' road won't take you miles out of your way, or you'll not make it to your 'Must do' hotel in time for canapés on the terrace.
 
Simon W and Wapping, I will replot with the suggestions to see how it pans out then repost it here to see if someone can recommend some good hotels. As you say maybe I should consider Germany as a whole different trip, but I have ridden in France a fair bit. Thanks again
 
Following the above, my revised route, which at this stage is still very much provisional and open for improvement/ridicule as necessary. Im now looking for recommendations for good hotels with an emphasis on comfort and cuisine, secure parking is not something I have worried about previously but I guess if the hotels are in towns that might be a consideration. Mrs YMFB likes a hair drier, but i don't suppose most Tossers have noted the availability of that amenity.

Night one is already sorted as we will stay at a small hotel near friends at Sciavo kms the subsequent nights we would be grateful for reccomendations.

Night two - Nr Davos, Switzerland

Night three - Nr Colmar, France

Night four - Nr La Roche-en-Ardenne, Belgium

Night five - nr Calais or within an hour of the Tunnel/ferry

Thanks in advance
 
Kaysersberg is a lovely town not far from Colmar - Colmar has a nice bit in the centre, medieval buildings sort of thing but most of it is unattractive, modern and looks like any other city centre. Kaysersberg has a Logis hotel near the castle or the Hotel Constantin is in the centre. Loads of nice restaurants. Lovely Salon de Thé across the street for a great breakfast better than any hotel buffet.

Or, if you want a hotel that lives up to its name, 15 miles from Colmar then https://www.hotel-panorama-alsace.com/ is really good. Views over Munster to the Petit Ballon. Restaurant is ace, which is a good job as nothing within walking distance, although you could paraglide down into Munster.
 
Lots of nice small towns near Colmar. Try Turckheim, Auberge du Brand

La Roche, take your pick of loads. The Midi is OK, for sure

Near Calais, the Sapines in Wisques or Ferme du Verte in Wierre-Effroy. I am going to the latter this weekend
 
Playing devil’s advocate, La Roche is my normal stopover before the tunnel - it’s only 3-3.5 hrs if you motorway it (I’ve observed that most people get up on the final day of a trip & just want to get home quickly, so usually take the route of least resistance). You can have a leisurely breakfast in La Roche, even take an hour to stroll up to the castle, and still be back in Salisbury by 5pm.

If you did that, the extra time could let you have a two-night stop somewhere, for a day of riding or sightseeing (some good castles in the Vosges, plenty of passes in Switzerland). Alternatively you could either dial the daily mileage back on all the other days or take more convoluted routes/routes with an hour or two of off-bike sightseeing built into them.

I know that opens up even more options - but the return trip’s gone from four days to six, so you will have 50% more options!
 
It’s getting close now, hotels and the Eurotunnel booked.

Basic route is

Niewpoort on the way to Dusseldorf for the overnight train to Innsbruck, a week nr Siena before the ride home

Schiavon
Davos
Colmar
La Roche En Ardenne
Home
 


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