LAKES AND MOUNTAINS: ITALY

All these questions are threat at helping me think this through thank you.

Ok, 10 to 12 days leaving mid June.
I’ll get the tunnel.
I love Italy for the food, culture and food
I love riding in the mountains
I don’t want to do many days with more than 200 miles as I like to get out and walk in the places I visit.
I’m past the point in life where I like to camp and prefer a little comfort in hotels. Own bathroom essential.

Other than that it’s a open book.

Speaking of which I’m off into town to find some maps and books

You really could do very much worse than steal ideas from RiDE

https://www.ride.co.uk/routes-1/ride-guide-to-the-alps

married to:

https://www.ride.co.uk/routes-1/the-ride-guide-to-italy

Play about in their website on ideas on how to get there. Don’t be afraid to mix and match routes. For example, you want to go to Italy from Calais but that might well mean going through France and / or Germany or Austria, so look at their suggestions on those countries too.

Hotels? Everyone has an idea what makes a great hotel or stopover, anything from a British run B&B through to a Formula 1 to the George Cinque. It’s now made really easy. Work out roughly where you’ll be each night. Go on Booking.com or something similar and find a hotel near enough where YOU want it and at a price or whatever that suits YOU, not Fat Bob bikermate from Barnsley. As many of the hotels allow free cancellation, book the hotel NOW. Why? You now know that you have a hotel. Then set about fine tuning things. Add hotels, take others away. Play about, you really can’t break anything.
 
As Wapping says, Booking.com is a great way to have a fully flexible trip. Me and a mate went over to the Somme area last year, but the weather was crap, so we looked at the weather forecast, spotted a load of blue sky down by Switzerland, so adapted and went via Vosges area.
One day we were sat having a sarny by a river and looked at the map, spotted a nice set of twisty roads with a town about 80 miles away, booked a brills hotel at the top of a mountain, defo do this adhoc way again.
I've done both guided tours and bog off by myself trips, I prefer the bog off, meet different people every night and hear about their adventures.
 
I know that with the pre arranged tours like this you are basically led by the hand and everything is arranged for you and I also realise that they are not run as a charity BUT the price of £2295 for a room share or £3395 to be in a single room (especially as only 4 evening meals are provided) is a tad steep.

I always reckon travelling as a couple to spend on average £90 per night for accomodation with breakfast and approximately £120 per couple for fuel, lunch and a evening meal, so travelling solo I would think that spending £160 per day would be about right if stopping in 3 star or 3 star plus hotels and not scrimping . So maybe it would cost £1800 (once over the channel ) ie a substantial saving .

Travelling solo means that you go where you want to go , see what you want to see and stop when you want to stop, you can follow the better weather and with the likes of booking .com you either book ahead for a hotel in the town you are travelling towards or stop in a town and find a decent hotel in your price range.
 
To show how easy it is to at least get some ideas on routes, distances, roads to maybe ride.

I put each of the destinations of BMW’s trip into Kurviger.de and asked it to give me first their basic ‘twisty roads but reasonably direct’ option. Then I asked it for the ‘even more twisty roads’ option. All done on an iPad in about two minutes using the device’s ability to split screen.

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You can see how close to the original BMW trip rough map the Kurviger.de routes are:

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Which should tell you that you are on near enough the right lines.

We know from the BMW itinerary where they take motorways, day one Calais to Troyes being a good example. You can therefore either follow BMW’s plan or amend it as you see fit. If the rest of the BMW tour’s overnight stop towns suit you, go onto Booking.com / Tripadvisor or something similar and find a hotel you like. A simple Google search of ‘hotel Troyes’ for example will probably throw most of them up. That’s your first night’s hotel fixed.... just repeat the process for the other nights.

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You could then repeat the process in the via.Michelin app to see what that throws-up by way of ideas. You’d then see it displayed on the excellent Michelin maps, in all their green lined (scenic) yellow D road glory. As I said, play around, surf the net, steal ideas, adopt and adapt. Save your ideas or make screen shots. It’s fun. It’s free and you really cannot break it, no matter how hard you try.

Richard
 
Thanks Guys,

All the information is great, Its just coming at me faster than I can Process.
:rob

Amazon is delivering a bunch of books and Maps this morning that were recommended in this thread so that will be the starting point. Then some time with the internet and I think il come up with a plan at a substantial saving over the group booking I missed out on.
:clap:bounce1
 
Some advice please....

As other has said on here, go on your own do your own thing you will not regret it. I have like others done quite a few trips on my own usually for 10 days +. You will be surprised at who you end up talking to, you'll meet some great people.

My suggestion is make sure you have a Sat Nav, spend a little time planning your days before you go booking hotels, again Booking.com as you can read the guest reviews...Have all the addresses saved on your Sat Nav so you will be staying where you want to stay and saves time trying to find them, then Google for things to see and do around where you are staying.

The other half and I do a bike holiday every two years and on a two week trip we always plan at least two days, one in each week where we have a none bike day so we walk around the towns site seeing.

These might be of interest to you:

Mille Miglia Museum N45° 31.447' E10° 16.070'
Ferrari Museum N44° 31.823' E10° 51.684'

We have this little trip booked to Italy later in the year.
 

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Thanks Guys,

All the information is great, Its just coming at me faster than I can Process.
:rob

Amazon is delivering a bunch of books and Maps this morning that were recommended in this thread so that will be the starting point. Then some time with the internet and I think il come up with a plan at a substantial saving over the group booking I missed out on.
:clap:bounce1

My 2p worth.... last summer I took my maiden trip through France ( via Reims) over to Baden Baden for the B500 (stayed at Pension Williams , great little bikers hotel) down the B500 all the way to Switzerland Avoiding the motorways and the vignette) loads of nice spots to stop down the B500, then did the Susten, Grimsell, Furka and Oberalp passes in Switzerland (stayed in the Hof House hotel,in innerkirchen). These were two awesome days...:D
We then headed to Lake Como so swmbo could have 4'days hols.. although we did ride to Stelvio in 37 degrees... we headed home via the France Alps, and Annecey... then hauled ares home in one 700 mile day:blast.... next time I will do the Stelvio and head north into Austria and then back through Germany and Belgium

As Wapping and others say.... use Ride guides then personalise.... maps are essential.. your sat nav will fail. It's the law:rob

Don't overestimate your mileage...

Go for it, you will love every minute... good luck:beerjug:
 
OP, well done for getting your maps, books and whatever. You’ll recoupe the cost of your outlay in seconds when you plan your own holiday, rather than have BMW do it for you. That is not to knock BMW’s trip (or similar) or bods that go on them; they serve a very good purpose. Yup, you’ll make mistakes but the great thing is that you are in Western Europe and never much more than a two hour flight from home if the wheels really do come off.... which they won’t.

One last tip and it’s served me well. Take a little notebook or even just write on the map little notes on each day. What time you started, stopped, where bits that were duff, bits that were great. In fact anything that helps you remember. It only takes a minute or so when you stop. Similarly, snap some pictures. You’ll forget otherwise; trust me, you will. You’ll find it really good to refer back to for your next trips; reminding you that you can (or can’t) do 700 miles in a day down every minor goat track, with umpteeen left, right, left, left, right turns and no map......

I have done it for years and it’s proved invaluable.
 
Wife and I are booked up to go to Italy in autumn.
It has never crossed my mind to do it with some touring company. Can you imagine someone breaking down/punctures? The lot of you have to hang about waiting. You can not pull up on the side when you want to or have spontaneous change of route should you come across a road you fancy the look of. (PS. I’ve never been on one of these and as such I only imagine the worst, I might be totally wrong though)

Solo or maybe one more bike is my option. I’ve done group ride to Italy. Started up four of us and ended up coming back in two different groups. More hassle than it is worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yes, opinion is (as with helmets, gloves, tyres and just about anything else) divided on organised tours, much of it based on bods’ imagination as to what one must be like, though they have never been on one. Sometimes the fellows that are the most vocal, “I do it all myself” are those that ask what the weather will be like or where to stay.

Organised tours serve a purpose, filling a gap in the market. RiDE’s suggested routes and those of the other magazines and numerous books do the same. This forum fills a gap as well. They must be popular or bods woudn’t go on them. Blokes like the BMW or whatever brand tours, as they will meet likeminds; whether it turns out that they actually like the likeminds they then spend two weeks with is something they’ll find out. I guess lots of them do as they go away on them every year.

Anyway, what constitutes an organised tour? Three blokes going away, still maybe requires one of them to ‘organise’ it, whilst the other two tag along. If in doubt, see all the posts that start: “Me and me seven mates is going away in June to Monaco, give us routes and bikersafe hotels, don’t do motorways as they is well dull” which is code for, ‘I’ve told my friends I’ll sort it all and now I need you to’. Or the not uncommon appeal for “Things to see and do” over their holiday journey of maybe 2,000 or more miles.... But are they on - or would they ever go on - an organised trip? No feckin’ way, mate.
 
When staying on the Italian lakes you do not have to ride around the lake. There are boats which run around the lake on regular circular tours so you see all the lake and waterfronts without suffering the slow traffic and can concentrate on enjoying the scene. Boats are cheap and if you see a town which you like the look of, get off walk the town and get back onto a later boat. This is the best way to explore the Italian lakes in my book.
 
Can you imagine someone breaking down/punctures? The lot of you have to hang about waiting. You can not pull up on the side when you want to or have spontaneous change of route should you come across a road you fancy the look of. (PS. I’ve never been on one of these and as such I only imagine the worst, I might be totally wrong though)

I do generally try to avoid internet arguments but, honestly, why on earth would you offer an opinion on something of which you have no experience? You ARE completely wrong, because you simply do not know what you're talking about - which you admit. I just don't understand why you'd slag something off based on nothing more than prejudice, preconception and ignorance... What is the point?

Group tours aren't for everyone (they're not really my thing) but I have done a fair few, with different operators, and I do know how they tend to be organised. Nobody should be put off doing one, if they're interested in the idea.

First, no two companies are exactly the same. However, none I've been with has a problem if you want to do your own thing, stop when you want, detour where you want - as long as you're confident that you can get to the hotel without being guided. The good ones will check you're happy and give any tips ("look out after the church in X town as it's easy to miss the turning" or "There's a good cafe in Y town") before you go your own way. But all of them understand that there's no point dictating to riders: for it to be a good holiday, people have to have the freedom to do what they want. If you are riding in a group with the tour guide and you peel off on your own, you shouldn't get to 6pm and then decide to call the guide to say "I'm lost - come and find me" – though it happens. I know of one tour guide who went out to rescue someone who'd done this (and got back to the hotel after 9pm).

All tour operators encourage people to ride at their own pace (it's vital for safety) and most of the ones I've ridden with try to avoid having all the bikes riding in a single big group. It might be a bit more of a big group on the first day, but most trips pretty quickly break down into groups of two or three bikes riding together as people get to know each other and settle in to riding with those who go at a similar pace. The bigger group tends to come back together at stops – you see other bikes from the tour parked up at a cafe, so you stop and join them - and in the evenings, for a beer in the bar and for the evening meal. Sometimes a larger group sticks with the guide, but I've only ever been on one tour – in America – where the organiser wanted to run it as a single giant column of bikes with a guide at the front and another at the back (and even then I was able to jump the fence and do my own thing whenever I wanted).

As for what happens if someone breaks down/has a puncture... well, if it's you that gets the puncture, I dare say a bit of assistance would be welcome. But no tour operator will ruin everyone else's day by making them sit around while they fix Johnny Handbrake's puncture. Most will just quickly make sure the rest of the group can carry on safely to the destination while they stay back to assist the rider with the problem. Sometimes one or two other riders will offer to stop and help as well (exactly as if you're riding with a mate at the weekend: you wouldn't just sod off and leave them if they had a puncture).

But the rest of the tour participants don't have to scrap their day of riding because someone else has broken down. There is a bit of Benthamism going on, with the needs of the many outweighing the problem of the one - so while a tour operator will do what they can to help whoever has the problem, they have to look after the other travellers. Some trips even have a support crew (with a van for stricken bikes) that will "sweep" the route and help riders having a problem, while the guide continues guiding. I did one trip where a guy crashed and the tour operator not only picked his bike up but also took it to a local garage where the broken bits were replaced and they hammered the panniers back into shape so the chap could keep riding; he was back on the road next morning. That support is one of the big attractions of a group tour for some riders who haven't been abroad on their own before. But all of the tour companies I've travelled with require riders to have suitable breakdown cover when booking on, and if it all goes wrong the rider has to call on that – not ruin everyone else's holiday.
 
Apologies, my bad. I did not realise the extent these things can go into.

Still, my preference to ride my own route at my own pace, my choice oh hotel and not to forget the distance I like to travel.

PLEASE ALL IGNORE MY PREVIOUS COMMENT!!!
 
Sorry - I didn't mean to jump down your throat - but the tour operators I've worked/ridden with all do put a lot of effort into giving people a good experience. I just thought I should stick up for them.

Yes, if you're confident, savvy, have someone to go with or enjoy solo exploring, you can probably have a better/more personalised trip on your own - and you'll definitely be able to do it cheaper on your own. I'd imagine most riders on this forum don't need their services.

But guided trips do have a place and for some riders they're exactly what's needed.

ETA: But remember, they're all different. If you're thinking about a guided trip, the trick is to find the one that works best for how you want to ride
 
Done it! Thanks for all the advice!

So, I decided to go it alone and avoid the guided trips not least because they all seem to want your sole when agreeing to their terms and conditions. (I have actually been reading them prior to signing up to things in the last few months and its amazing how many I decide not to agree to.)

So I have my trip outline planned, Worked out how to use Kuviger and import the trip to the NAV IV. signed up for Booking.com and got some hotel ideas. Planning on a couple of rest days at Lake Garda and a couple of extra days for the passes in Andermatt.

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement. :beerjug: only 2 months to wait now but that time will go fettling the bike. :D
 

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See, it can be done.

Now you’ve done it, you’ll find it easier and easier the next times. That you’ve saved yourself a bucket load of cash, is the icing on the cake.

Do zoom in on the Kurviger routes. They sometimes take some VERY small roads, just for the sake of it. Roads that might make little sense if it’s lashing with rain, you’ve had a significant delay and the target is to get from A to B before bedtime. For instance, it sometimes routes you through a town, when the sensible route is probably to take the ring road. Similarly, it assiduously avoids all motorways, which is sometimes daft.
 
If you are planning to stay at lake Garda, billytheskippers post about lake tours on the boat is spot on, it is very busy on the roads so the boat is a nice relaxed way to see the lake and enjoy food, drink, pastries and beer of course in all the towns/villages around the shoreline, it is one of our favourite places in Europe.
Depending on latest grandchilds arrival date l may be going to Garda in June myself, a friends son from OZ is competing in a sailing event, just not sure wether to go on GS or in MR2, only got 9 days for the trip.


Al.
 


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