Ride in Biblical Rain Review (gear)

This SG4 jacket is literally letting water pass straight through the laminated membrane on the sleeves,

Is the water getting in from the elbows up to the shoulder OR from the elbow to the cuff?

If it's downwind of the elbow..... to the cuffs, you have wear the inner jacket too, with the labyrinth sleeves (these stop rain being driven up by capillary action, from your cuffs)

Downside is that the inner jacket/storm collar/hood is too hot in summer rain
 
Like I said earlier JB, I turned the jacket sleeves inside out and unpicked the jacket liner seams to reveal the laminate. I then tied off the sleeve at the wrist and put a hosepipe inside the sleeve (inside out remember) and added water to fill up the sleeve to check its "hydrostatic pressure" ability. The water was just pouring through the membrane all over like it had a thousand tiny pinholes.
 
It's a shame Hein Gericke stopped trading in the UK. Since 2002 I've had two full suits, with Goretex drop liners, from them and both have been excellent. The first one was their cheapest Goretex suit and never let in a drop of water (except round the neck if I didn't have the storm collar fitted). This was crash damaged in 2006, but Lancashire Sport Repairs did a great job of repairing it, replacing a large area of fabric on the sleeve that was torn, damaged zips and vecro, plus one or two poppers that got torn off. Even now you have to look carefully to see where it was repaired. This suit has been my back up since I replaced it about 10 years ago, when a couple of other zips failed and the suit was looking tatty.

I replaced it with the last of the Goretex 'Master' Suits. This, unlike the earlier Master suits had a drop liner and it was a bargain at over 30% off between the closures of the Hein Gericke U.K. stores. This suit also has never let any water in, though I had to have the waterproof zip replaced by LSR a few years ago.

This suit is now looking somewhat tatty, and the waterproof zip needs replacing again. So, I'm in the process of replacing this suit, and as it will probably be the last one I ever have I have decided to really splash out and get the Stadler Supervent 3 and the 4All Pro trousers. I already have the Jacket, I'm just waiting for the trousers and the storm collar to arrive from Germany. I just hope this kit lives up to the reputation that it has both in this forum and elsewhere. Yes, it is expensive, but some of the pain is taken away by the 10% discount Motolegends will give to Blood Bikers. ;)

The above have always been accompanied by Altberg Boots, initially Clubman Roadsters, and more lately Roadrunners. Both have been excellent, never letting in water, even the Roadsters after being crash damaged in 2006 and repaired by Altberg (heel leather replaced) when they used to provide a refurbishment service. I'm currently back in the Roadsters whilst my Roadrunners are being resoled.

Gloves have always been an issue. Until recently I've used Alpinestar Goretex gloves which would eventually wet out in extreme weather.
Last year I bought some Held Goretex 4 season gloves, so far these have kept my hands dry, even in the heaviest of rain.
 
Like I said earlier JB, I turned the jacket sleeves inside out and unpicked the jacket liner seams to reveal the laminate. I then tied off the sleeve at the wrist and put a hosepipe inside the sleeve (inside out remember) and added water to fill up the sleeve to check its "hydrostatic pressure" ability. The water was just pouring through the membrane all over like it had a thousand tiny pinholes.

Aha, I see now
 
Richa Atlantic GTX jacket - Bone dry
BMW Enduroguard trousers - Bone dry
Richa Arctic Goretex gloves - Still looking for a waterproof glove
Daytona Roadstar GTX boots - Bone dry
Shoei Neotoec 2 - Mists up and rain gets past the top seal but OK

Revit Sand 3 Jacket - Bone dry as long as you Nikwax the outside
Revit Sand 3 trousers - Bone dry without the above, strangely.
Update: BMW EnduroGuard trousers leaked in the Pyrenees last September. Refunded by BMW. I have recently purchased a pair of Klim Badlands Pro trousers in non-twat suit black. I will report at the end of 2024. Revit gear still going strong.
 
Stadler jacket and trousers, had them about a year now damp at front of the collar probably due to the screen too low in two bad downpours in 'normal' rain completely dry.
Shoei neotec 2, Rukka gloves, Daytona road star boots dry.
Brilliant kit but feckin expensive :eek::eek:
 
Had my Halvarssons Prime jacket plus Prince trousers for a few years, ridden in plenty of heavy downpours for hours of riding and they continue to keep me bone dry and plenty warm enough. TBH, other than my Klim summer trousers, I wouldn't spend big bucks on a suit these days.
 
Riding in the rain is fun :)
+1, it is… but cleaning the bike afterwards isn’t!
Back to the thread: Arai QV Pro, Scott Ergo top and bottom over my Klim Marrakesh suit, Daytona GTX Roadstar boots (25yrs old) and Rukka Lobster//Virium gloves depending on the temps. 100% dry.
 
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I’m done with Rukka. On my second jacket and trousers, discounted they cost over £1500. For that money they should be the dogs danglies. They’re shite. The crotch always leaks (I ride all year round) and despite going back twice under warranty they still leak - it’s disgusting given what they cost. I’m going for a one piece suit next time.

Klim HARDANGER https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/503468

Summer gloves and bar muffs keep hands warm and dry.. plus Sidi boots..love em.
 
I have the Klim Carlsbad stealth black jacket and trousers, they keep me dry.
Keis gloves are waterproof and in the event it gets cold can be plugged in.
Keis heated layers keep me warm under the Klim stuff.

I love my Scorpion ADX2 helmet most of the time, but it leaks in heavy rain.
My head doesn't get wet inside per se, just splashes on my face and water runs down the inside of the visor.
i can wipe the outside with a finger, that's when you realise the beads of water are on the feckin inside!

Forma boots are dry but without the keis heates socks, my feet can get cold on long low temp rides
 
Interesting email from Motolegends today, and I agree with them....

The only jacket that will never let you down in the rain
High up on most people's agenda when it comes to choosing a motorcycle jacket is that it should be waterproof. And this we understand. If it rains when you’re out on the bike, nobody relishes the idea of getting soaking wet.

Of course, one of the ironies here is that a lot of people go to great lengths to ensure that they have the most waterproof jacket they can afford, yet when it comes to going out on the bike they’ll often elect to take the car, or stay at home, rather than head out in the knowledge that the wet stuff is on its way.

I am not saying that everybody is like this but, let’s face it, very few of us enjoying riding when we are being assailed by fast descending cats and dogs. Of course, if you commute by bike you may have no choice. Ditto if you ride professionally; if the bike is how you travel from site to site, for example. Yet the truth is that, for most of us, if we get caught in the rain, it means that there has been a miscalculation, or that we’ve just been unlucky.
If it's raining, most of us will stay at home, and put the kettle on.
Against this background it’s perhaps just a little strange that we are so concerned about leaving the house unless we are totally prepared for an imminent monsoon. For those of us who ride for fun, those whom we might term casual riders, those who go out for a blast on the weekend, and who now and again might venture a little further afield, rain is not a frequent occurrence.

We’re British, so of course we are obsessed by the weather, but I would imagine that, for most of us, rain features on no more than 10% of our rides. It really does not rain every day. In the colder months, the stats. suggest that it rains just one day out of two in this country. Between April and November, that reduces to just one day in three. Rain is nowhere near as prevalent as we often imagine it to be. The cold, yes; the rain, not so much.

The problem is that waterproof gear is not always particularly nice to wear. It will always be heavier, bulkier and less comfortable. It will make it harder for your skin to breathe. If the membrane is a drop-liner one, it will add bulk and volume to a jacket. If the membrane is a laminated one, it will make the jacket stiffer and less pliable.

But wanting to err on the side of caution, most of us will accept this trade off in wearability, just so that we are correctly attired when that typhoon does hit. And that’s fair enough. If you’re risk adverse, go for it.
The problem with most waterproof jackets
The single most common complaint when it comes to motorcycle jackets is water ingress. It is always the issue that creates the greatest angst when it comes to warranty claims.

You spend a lot of money on a waterproof motorcycle jacket. You go out in the rain, and you end up getting wet. You get pissed off. The truth is that, when this happens, it’s actually often not a problem with the membrane or even the jacket. The reality is that, at 70 mph in heavy rain, the invidious wet stuff will often find a way of reaching the body.

In a drop-liner jacket, water will swill around between the outer fabric and the membrane. You will feel wet, you may well feel cold, but usually the membrane will still be doing its job. This won’t happen in a laminated jacket, but in a laminated jacket the weak points are the taping and the zips. Most laminated jackets are not properly put together. Whilst if you leave a zip quarter of an inch open, the rain will stream in through that small aperture directly to the body.
This is a Halvarssons laminated jacket. If it starts to leak after the warranty runs out in three years' time, you'll need a new one!
It really doesn’t seem to matter whether you have spent £250 or £1250, there is no such thing as a motorcycle jacket that is guaranteed to keep you totally dry. Even the most expensive, 3-layer, laminated, Gore-Tex, Rukka jacket isn’t immune. Okay, with a Gore-Tex jacket you’ll have the backing of Gore's lifetime waterproof warranty, but that doesn’t mean that your jacket won’t leak; merely that a resolution will be found.

The bottom line is this. If you put yourself out there on the bike, and the rain is hard enough, and you ride fast enough for long enough you will eventually get wet.

But we have come across one jacket that nobody has ever sent back to us for water ingress.

And it’s the Klim Marrakesh.
The most waterproof motorcycle jacket you’ll ever ride in
Now, you’ll think that we’re taking the mickey, but hear us out, because there is a serious point here. Indeed there are several serious points here. And indeed we would contend that a Marrakesh worn below a Scott waterproof makes for the gold standard as far as waterproofing is concerned.

As I said, hear us out.

The single greatest reason for people deciding to swap their current motorcycle jacket for a new one is that they have formed the view that the old one leaks. Maybe the taping has come detached. The membrane might have become damaged, or worn out. It could be that the zips are no longer closing properly. Many people convince themselves that their jacket has started to wet out. Overwhelmingly, when people come into the shop for a new jacket, they will tell us that it’s because the one they own is no longer waterproof.
The Marrakesh will never fail you. Water ingress will not be an issue.
For some people this is very disappointing. They have spent £300, £400, £500, £1000, or even more on their jacket. It’s now out of warranty, and so they take the view that they need a new jacket. And often they’re right because once a jacket starts to leak, it's often not possible to effect a repair. But one of the beauties of a Marrakesh is that you will never, ever have to retire it because it leaks.

This may sound obvious because it's not a waterproof jacket, but it's a serious point. You will often feel you have to throw away an expensive, motorcycle jacket because it leaks, but that cannot happen here. In extremis, if the waterproof that you wear over the Marrakesh starts to leak, for whatever reason, you just go out and buy another one. That's going to set you back £90 at the most; not the £300, £400, £500 or £1000 you paid for your motorcycle jacket with a membrane.
The Marrakesh will never fail you. Water ingress will not be an issue.
We had never really looked at the Marrakesh in this way before, but what we are saying is undoubtedly true. You may well be wearing your Marrakesh in five or ten years' time. It will continue to do its job of protecting you for as long as you want it to. You will only need to retire it when you become bored.

Seen in this way, the Marrakesh becomes the most cost efficient motorcycle jacket you'll ever own. You'll only need to trade it in when it falls apart. You won't ever have to trade it in because it has failed you, or because it no longer does what it was meant to do. There's not much to the Marrakesh. And so there's not much that can go wrong.
Waterproofing and the Marrakesh
The Marrakesh is a case study in layering.

Klim provides two of the three layers that you might need. The Zephyr is a super-light, windproof jacket that staves off the pernicious effects of wind chill. The Maverick, which ideally should be worn underneath the Zephyr, is a classic goose-down jacket. It delivers as much warmth to a rider as anything this side of something that is wired to the bike.
The Zephyr will perform one of most important roles of a membrane, in that it will combat the effects of wind chill in cold weather.
But for waterproofing you will need to wear a waterproof over the top of the Marrakesh; and we would not go for Klim's waterproof jacket; it's too cumbersome, too expensive, and doesn't contain stretch. Which is why we would always elect to go for the Scott Ergo Pro.
The best place to wear your waterproof is outside your protective jacket, not inside it. Ask any sailor, mountaineer or military person how they wear theirs.
Lastly, I wanted to emphasise the benefits, in heavy rain, of wearing a waterproof over the top of your protective layer. And that's because this represents the 'gold standard' when it comes to staying dry on the bike. Let me explain.

As we all know, if you ride in a drop-liner jacket in heavy rain for a prolonged period of time, there will come a point at which that jacket starts to absorb moisture. The rain may not technically reach the body, but nonetheless you will start to feel wet; and the wet environment created by the sodden jacket will promote heat loss from the body.
Waterproofs are reliable and inexpensive. If it fails, buy a new one!
Wear a Scott, or something similar, over your jacket and that jacket will stay bone dry. You can ride for three or four hours in the rain like this, and when you stop the jacket beneath will be bone dry. It won't have taken on any moisture at all. And as a result you'll feel warmer too.

A laminated jacket will never absorb as much moisture as a drop-liner one, but it will still get wet; not soaking, sodden wet, but wet nonetheless. It won't wet out, but turn up somewhere for lunch, and you'll still have a wet jacket that will need to be hung up somewhere to dry out. And that's why we often talk about the fact that a Scott worn over a Marrakesh, or indeed over any motorcycle jacket is going to deliver a solution that is better than laminate.
Why the Marrakesh still might not work for you
The theory we have explained is sound. And we stick by our claim that one of the benefits of the Marrakesh as a 'waterproof' jacket is that it will never, ever let you down. The taping will never fail. The membrane will never get damaged or wear out. The zips won't prove a weak point. And so on. And on this basis alone, the Marrakesh has a huge amount going for it.

Yet we know that it won't work for everybody. The main problem is that you have to stop to put the waterproof on. And that can be a pain. Pulling over to the side of the road is not always convenient. And if you commute a long distance every day, or ride as part of your job, then we can see that a waterproof over something like the Marrakesh might not work.

And whilst we love the layering system for touring, we are aware that if you ride with a large group of other riders, the chances are that your mates won't want to stop when you do.
The benefits of wearing a jacket that doesn't have a fixed membrane are manifold. It will be more comfortable, particularly in hot weather.
Of course, the real issue with any jacket with a membrane is that you'll boil over in hot weather. It's only if you layer in the way that you do with the Marrakesh that you can have the perfect set up wherever and whenever you ride.

Are there some downsides to layering? Is the system perfect? Will it work for everybody? Clearly not, but t'was ever thus. For many people, however, come rain or shine, the Marrakesh is the way to go.

And what's more you'll never have to complain to your dealer that it's no longer waterproof!
KLIM
MARRAKESH JACKET
TEAK BROWN
£450.00

Grey buy it now button
KLIM
 
I have the Marrakesh trousers, and they're the best I've owned. However, they're not all season (nor is the jacket) and not roomy enough to wear insulated inners with but for 3 season trousers, with my goretex wp over trousers, they do the job well. For winter, I've yet to find anything to better my Halvarrsons trousers which have always kept me warm and bone dry. If I get round to replacing my jacket, it will be fore the Marrakesh, no question. Insulated inner and it's good for winter along with wp over jacket, as above. All together, a 2 piece wityh w/p's costs less than a Rukka 2 piece and is more versatile as it also makes for the perfect summer 2 piece without liners or w/p's.
 
For me its my BMW Enduroguard suit, sadly no longer made.

I wish I had bought two of them when I had the chance.
 


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