Closest entry point... A new function in the XT

2. If, when using the XT and whilst riding your route, you find that by mistake you have used a waypoint (when you meant to use a shaping point) or that you have plonked it 50 metres off the road you need to be on, or you simply change your mind about the need to pass through it, use the XT’s skip waypoint facility.

Hi Rich your point 2 will cause a total route recalculation and you will most likely lose your original planned route ( i know i have tried that method )
 
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Hi Rich your point 2 will cause a total route recalculation and you will most likely lose your original planned route ( i know i have tried that method )


The skip waypoint button’s operation isn’t perfect and certainly not on the Nav V or VI. It certainly had some teething problems on the BMW branded devices when it was first introduced, fixed via a software update.

I rarely (if ever) place waypoints or shaping points 50 metres off the road (unless I do need to go to that spot) - and I do my very best to avoid placing anything on road junctions, up small alleys, on roundabouts and on the wrong carriageway - and rarely miss waypoints, as I so rarely create them. That being said, my use of waypoints is increasing as I explore more ways of using BaseCamp fully. This means that I very very rarely use the skip waypoint button. But, when I do, I am near enough just about used to how it works. Trial and error has taught me that much, I guess.

People with more (hopefully good) experience as to how the skip waypoint function works and its foibles may well comment further. Welcome if they do.
 
On point 3, Tomcat, in your ‘Closest entry point’ option experiment, does this understandable demand that the XT directs you from where you are to the closest shaping and then backwards to and through the flagged waypoint before continuing the route forwards, only apply if you have physically stopped and restarted the route? That would be how I would expect the XT and the closest entry point function to work, then used in conjunction with the skip waypoint function to miss the waypoint and continue normally onwards following the route


Richard

Yes, I selected a specific route, then checked 'Map' to see where it actually went (same as plotted in Basecamp) and then hit 'Go', 'Closest Entry'. So each route was freshly started. I did turn the unit off and on at various points and if it's a simple power down/up when a route is active then the route remains in memory, still active, on power up. If you happen to connect it to USB then it goes through a complete reboot when disconnected, even to the point of having to accept the EULAs again. Unlike the Nav V I think it actually powers down and up on the power button, whereas the Nav V seems to go into a sleep mode and is still consuming a small amount of battery power.

My XT updated its s/w along with the maps when I first connected it, and is running v2.5 with 2020.3 maps. It's true that my routes were only 15 miles or so, but there was more than one route available to my destination. Route preference set to Fastest, and all avoidances off. I've transferred a few of my old routes across from Basecamp (plotted in earlier map versions) and the XT has recreated them exactly. I only use start and end waypoints and a fairly minimal number of shaping points but I've experienced no problems on this front. Routes created in 2020.3 in Basecamp and transferred to the XT don't recalculate, as you'd expect.

As soon as I'm allowed out on a bike again I'll run some tests with actual routes, and post if I find anything different.
 
As soon as you add or remove a shaping point or waypoint on the XT trip planner it will recalculate it for sure and it will not be the same as you plotted in basecamp
I converted the route to a track and displayed this on the map so you can see the changes going on...

If you add or remove a shaping or waypoint to a route, there will always be a recalculation, as the shape or ‘qualities’ of the route has been altered. That is true of any Garmin device I have ever owned; it is not a quirk of the XT. How much the route alters will depend on a number of factors. Here are three easy examples:

i. The device’s preference settings

ii. The choices of alternative roads available. For example, imagine a straight line route, along a single road (with no realistic alternative roads available) starting at A, via shaping B, to the end, C. If you remove B, the route has to recalculate but the recalculated route will be the same as the first route. Now imagine an equilateral triangular route from A, up to shaping point B, then down to C. If you remove the shaping B, the route will recalculate. The final route offered up will be very different, being a straight line between A and what was, C.

iii. Recalculation also has to happen if, for example, you change a shaping point in to a waypoint (or visa-versa) from within the device itself. Doing so, almost certainly will not alter the shape or direction of the route nor the roads it takes. The only way the compulsory recalculation might alter the route, is if the preference settings were fundamentally different.

So, recalculation happens quite often, for lots of reasons, on the vast majority of Garmin devices. The end results might be zero, tiny or huge, depending on a number of variables. My three examples above just gave a few. I have a certain discipline when summoning up routes in the device. I first look at the route overview screen, which shows the route’s shape (along with the little blue shaping point dots and the flags of any waypoints), its total distance and its estimated time. When I run the route by hitting GO (a process that itself requires team device to make a calculation or a recalculation) I look at the route offered up to make sure it matches (or near enough) what I was expecting and what I saw in the preview screen. If it does, great. If it doesn’t, I then work out why it doesn’t and fix it.

One thing i have noticed during tests is changing from fastest to shortest can also make a big difference to how the unit behaves

Again, that is true of any Garmin device I have ever owned, so it’s not unique to the XT. Switching from fastest to most direct or visa-versa, will force a recalculation, no matter which device is being used. The recalculated route may well be fundamentally different. Imagine a route A to B, north to south, across London. The fastest route A to B, would be to take the M25 motorway in a long semicircular loop around the huge city. The shortest (most direct) route A to B would be north to south, straight through the middle of London. Two fundamentally different routes but both starting and finishing from the same two points, A and B. Now mix in the possibility that the device’s owner might have set his preference setting to avoid motorways. The fastest route may then be straight through the middle of London, no (or very little) different to the most direct route.
 
Hi Rich you have misinterpreted what i meant
Point 1 what i am saying is skipping a waypoint because the unit whants to force you to go there is not a solution
point 2 i know that chainging the route properties will force a recalculate on any unit
What i am saying is if you create a route in basecamp using fastest route and transfer it to the XT with the XT set to fastest route compared to both being set to shortest
it can change the units behaviour when you restart the route part way along
 
Yes, I selected a specific route, then checked 'Map' to see where it actually went (same as plotted in Basecamp) and then hit 'Go', 'Closest Entry'. So each route was freshly started. I did turn the unit off and on at various points and if it's a simple power down/up when a route is active then the route remains in memory, still active, on power up. If you happen to connect it to USB then it goes through a complete reboot when disconnected, even to the point of having to accept the EULAs again. Unlike the Nav V I think it actually powers down and up on the power button, whereas the Nav V seems to go into a sleep mode and is still consuming a small amount of battery power.

My XT updated its s/w along with the maps when I first connected it, and is running v2.5 with 2020.3 maps. It's true that my routes were only 15 miles or so, but there was more than one route available to my destination. Route preference set to Fastest, and all avoidances off. I've transferred a few of my old routes across from Basecamp (plotted in earlier map versions) and the XT has recreated them exactly. I only use start and end waypoints and a fairly minimal number of shaping points but I've experienced no problems on this front. Routes created in 2020.3 in Basecamp and transferred to the XT don't recalculate, as you'd expect.

As soon as I'm allowed out on a bike again I'll run some tests with actual routes, and post if I find anything different.

Thank you, Tomcat. Look forward to hearing your hands-on findings.

What I’d also be interested to hear is your direct experience if you:

A. Do not use the ‘Closest entry point’ option

B. Simply ride to meet the magenta line, without having the route active. In other words, use the device as a simple map to work out your own way of getting to the magenta line. Then summon up the route and start it from there. What happens? Does the route run normally and correctly? I know it will on all the other Garmin devices I have ever owned but Garry is saying his XT doesn’t. Why, it doesn’t or won’t is a mystery we we trying to help him solve.
 
I have solved it Rich
The solution is in the thread you closed ;)
 
Hi Rich you have misinterpreted what i meant
Point 1 what i am saying is skipping a waypoint because the unit whants to force you to go there is not a solution
point 2 i know that chainging the route properties will force a recalculate on any unit
What i am saying is if you create a route in basecamp using fastest route and transfer it to the XT with the XT set to fastest route compared to both being set to shortest
it can change the units behaviour when you restart the route part way along

OK, accepted.

I don’t use many waypoints in routes, so my experience of using the Skip waypoint function on my Nav V and Nav VI is limited. But here goes:

i. When the option to skip a waypoint was first launched, it had a critical fault. It skipped the waypoint, it then recalculated (it has to, obviously) but then routed the rider straight to the route’s endpoint. Obviously, this fundamentally altered any bespoke route the device’s owner may have created

ii. The critical fault was then fixed in a software update. The device still needs to recalculate the route, as it skips a waypoint but it no longer defaults to creating the rider a recalculated route to only the end point

iii. What I can’t remember is if my Nav V and VI now creates a recalculated route that goes:

a. To the next shaping point (if there is one) and on from there, or

b. To the next waypoint (if there is one) and on from there

Someone who creates bespoke routes with waypoints and / or shaping points and who uses the skip waypoint function regularly, may well be able to tell us more.

I guess your XT will be doing the same or similar to the above? If so, it is maybe not operating so very differently than my Nav V and Nav VI?
 
I have solved it Rich
The solution is in the thread you closed ;)

I think we both agree, that thread was going all over the place and often in circles, resembling Nutty’s attempts at using a GPS. This one is starting to head that way, as we are talking about skipping waypoints in a thread that I hoped would be about the new XT device’s ‘Closest entry point’ function.

Anyway, glad you have resolved your ‘Skip waypoint’ conundrum. So we are now back on track.
 
Well if you are sat in the house using the simulator you can't be sure it will perform the same way in the field ....I would not consider this a reasonably rigorous test
I have done simular sat in the house plotted a route close to me and found the XT worked fine in this test ( not the same in the field )



As soon as you add or remove a shaping point or waypoint on the XT trip planner it will recalculate it for sure and it will not be the same as you plotted in basecamp
I converted the route to a track and displayed this on the map so you can see the changes going on ( did you do this )



The routes i created had 30 plus shaping points over 150+miles
If you have given the XT hardly any choice it may well work fine ...I have found this to be true
I would be interesting when you get your XT out into the countryside and run a 150 mile route with loads of choices of routing options thats what i did
Then the issues start to show up


I would be surprised if i had a faulty unit ( but you never know )
Mine is running the latest firmware
There are some routes i have created that run fine and others that don't



All i would say it put a decent long route in the XT go and ride it stop the route and see what happens...Thats what i did and it was only then i noticed a issue :thumby:
One thing i have noticed during tests is changing from fastest to shortest can also make a big difference to how the unit behaves



The other thing is maybe i am expecting to much from the XT when comparing it to the 276cx with it's vastly superior routing capabilities and much more developed firmware
I am still waiting for some more firmware updates on the XT to see how it improves like most Garmin units do over time


Agreed

Agreed to a point, it will only alter the route to the next available waypoint, how much it alters will depend on settings and distance to next point

So if the route is built solidly as it should be, no problem then.

Unlikely not impossible agreed.

Why do some routes run perfect and others dont, possible fault in the route making (a misplaced point or not enough), or are you expecting a result that the unit can not give you, because of the said issues with the followed route, and/or limitations of the unit.

we will await results from others

Most probable as it is not a 276cx.
 
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"So if the route is built solidly as it should be, no problem then"

Correct there this is one thing i have learnt compared to other units i have
The XT is a fussy unit when it comes to routing
So my advise to any body who gets a XT and is used to using a Garmin GPSmap type or montana unit
don't expect routes that work perfectly in these units to work in the XT...Because there is a good chance they won't
You will have lost the luxury of just plonking a few waypoint and shaping points down to get what you want and the unit following it spot on

Reminds me of a ride i went on with a mate of mine a few years back now...He was using a 550 zumo and had plotted the route for the day
He sent me the route and i put it on my unit 276 back then
I said to him when i activated the route " why the feck have you got all these waypoints on the route "
His reply was " if i don't put all these in in won't take me where i want to go ! "
So the clue in the fussy routing could be in the name Zumo XT
 
"So if the route is built solidly as it should be, no problem then"

Correct there this is one thing i have learnt compared to other units i have
The XT is a fussy unit when it comes to routing
So my advise to any body who gets a XT and is used to using a Garmin GPSmap type or montana unit
don't expect routes that work perfectly in these units to work in the XT...Because there is a good chance they won't
You will have lost the luxury of just plonking a few waypoint and shaping points down to get what you want and the unit following it spot on

Reminds me of a ride i went on with a mate of mine a few years back now...He was using a 550 zumo and had plotted the route for the day
He sent me the route and i put it on my unit 276 back then
I said to him when i activated the route " why the feck have you got all these waypoints on the route "
His reply was " if i don't put all these in in won't take me where i want to go ! "
So the clue in the fussy routing could be in the name Zumo XT

I suspect your friend really didn’t know what he was doing by way of route creation, the use of his 550, nor how to use (from that sort of era) Mapsource. If your friend was creating a Mapsource route by extending it road by road by road by road, then yes, it would have loads of waypoint flags. Had he simply gone A to B and then elastic banded the magenta line, he may well have had a lot less but his 550 wouid still have functioned reliably.

Yes, good route creation, married to a reasonable knowledge as to how any device operates is important. Anyone can and should accept that. Not plonking waypoints 50 metres off a road being a good example. But we are digressing from the thread’s topic which is: Closest entry point.... a new in function in the XT
 
Hi

I have just been diverted from another thread by @Wapping , who is also contributing here. Its an interesting discussion, but so far the comments made in this thread are rather confusing to me because the terminology used is not precise enough to convey the precise meaning. And I think that in order to sort out what is meant by 'Closest Entry Point' we need to be clear about the terms that we are using.

Why ? Because it matters. It makes a difference.

So please let me start off by describing what I understand by various terms.

These are very simple definitions:

A Waypoint is a stored location which can exists by itself (eg as a Point of Interest) or it can be added to a route.
You can make your store of Waypoints using the flag tool in Basecamp. In the Zumo, they are called Favourites.
A Via Point is a point on a route which alerts on arrival.
A Shaping Point is a point on a route which does not alert on arrival.

Every point on a route has to be a Via Point or a Shaping Point. Start and end points behave in much the same way as Via Points.
Any point on a route can be made into a Via Point or a Shaping Point (including points that were added from a list of stored Waypoints

I tend to use the term 'Route Point' to refer to any points on a route, or to a point if I don't know precisely what it is, or if its properties don't actually matter when I am talking about them.


Now - about their behaviour.

On the 590 and 595, when navigating a route, the Via Points will alert on approach and on arrival. Shaping Points do not.

Via Points mark the beginning and end of a section of route which may contain a number of shaping points in between. The Zumos seem to use this when navigating any particular route. It is the Via Points that seem to contain the distance and timing information. Garmin seem to regard these points as key destinations in a trip - eg Lunch stops. I think many people don't make this same distinction.

Via Points insist that you visit them. They will nag and nag and nag until it recognises that you have visited the point - unless you hit the skip button.
Shaping points do exactly the same - but they have a redeeming feature. If you happen across the magenta line after a shaping point that you have missed, the Zumo doesn't care a jot. So if the shaping point is in a town and you decide to take the by-pass, as soon as you join the magenta route that leads away from the town, the satnav will stop nagging you to go and visit the point.

Via Points are the only route points that can have data displayed about them in the Data view at the side of the screen. (eg Time to Via, Distance to Via)
When Starting a route, Via Points are the only points that are listed as options from which to select 'Next Destination'. Incidentally - whichever point you choose, the Zumo will take you direct to that point using the route preferences that are set for the vehicle (eg Faster Time) IT will miss out any shaping points or Via points that are on your route before the point you select.

Waypoints are the only routing points that you can give your own name to. Basecamp will let you change the name of any routing point, but the Zumo will ignore changes to anything except Waypoints. Proper Waypoints.

Right - believe it or not, that was in a nutshell.

The XT - well it does exactly the same as the above.

Except it has this new feature - Closest Entry Point.

Basically, this is an automated version of the 'Select Next Destination'. It chooses a point somewhere ahead of where you are now and takes you to that point using the settings that are current in the satnav (eg Faster time). It misses out all of the route point before the point that it has selected.

Even if the route passes 100 metres from where you are now - it will select a routing point further up the road in the direction that you are intending to travel. But it will happily ignore many of your plotted route points in order to get you to its selected 'Closest Entry Point'.

So how does it select the closest entry point?

Well it took a while to work out and this is where the correct terminology is so important.

I think from my tests that it will choose points that match certain criteria.


Somewhere on the route ahead of where you are now.
YES A Via Points that is also a Waypoint.
YES A Via Point that was originally added as a Shaping Point
YES A Shaping Point that was added as a Waypoint, and changed to a shaping points
NO A Shaping Points that was initially a Via Point (but not a Waypoint)
NO A Shaping Point that was originally a shaping points


So Basically any Via point and any Waypoint (ie A proper Waypoint, Shaping or Via).

So maybe you can see why it is so important to have the correct definitions ?
It seems to do a pretty good job of ensuring the point is somewhere ahead. I tried tempting it with a point very close to the current position, but a few hundred yards in the wrong direction. It refused to bite. Instead it missed out 3 shaping points and opted for the direct route to a Via Point 8 miles away


How can you tell whether a point was a Waypoint or not.

In Basecamp, only Waypoints will appear in the list on the left of the map along with the route.
In the route list in BC you cannot tell which were Waypoints. (the list is confusingly headed Via Points) The Icons may help, but these can be changed.
In Basecamp, change the name of all of your points - I prefix with a 3 digit mileage number. In Zumo, only the Waypoints will keep that name change.

How can I investigate just by sitting at my desk.
Well I have to. We are not allowed out, and my bike has no front forks at present.

Transfer your test route. Import it and look at the map. Spot the flags (Via Points) spot the blue circles (Shaping Points). Don't start it yet, but compare it to your Basecamp map. The route should be identical If your route recalculated, then either the map on the Zumo and map in Basecamp are different, or your settings in Edit / Options / Device Transfer are wrong - untick all of the boxes.
Check the vehicle and route settings for the route when you have imported it. Click the spanner, check the icon.

Before you select start, turn the GPS off - in the navigation menu. Make sure that your route isn't active. If it is , stop the route.

Then on your map, scroll around to find where you want to be when you start the route. It is easier to tap on the map first, wait for the North Icon to appear and tap on that to get a properly oriented map, and then zoom out and scroll around. Tap a place on the map to get a flag. The name of the road should appear at the bottom. Tap the name, and use the dark arrow on the left to scroll down the options to the bottom. Choose 'Set Location'.

Now load up your route and choose 'Closest Entry Point' and discover which is the first flag or blue circle on its route. That is the closest entry point that it has selected. I found that it occasionally chose a blue circle - ie a Shaping Point. But each time it did this, it happened to be one of the waypoints that I had placed and turned into a shaping point.

Why would I bother to use a Waypoint, and then turn it into a shaping point ?
Well OK, since you asked. I want to stop for coffee. I find a cafe in the various databases and add that. It has come from a database. It is a Waypoint with phone numbers and address and a website. By default when I add it to the route, it is made a Via Point. The first thing I do is change it to a shaping point, and then create a Via Point back on the route after the cafe. That means I can ignore the nagging cafe shaping point if I wish and pick up the route at the Via Point just up the road.

Enough. Well done if you managed to get down tot he bottom if this essay. If anyone finds out anything additional from this, or can prove it wrong, I'd be more than happy to revisit my experiments.
 
Great write up and many thanks, lots of info, a couple of things,

1 when selecting the closest entry point does it always select forward no matter what, in other words if you were at more than half way along the route and you left the route, and then wished to return, but your only point forward was the end of the route, and there were closer via points nearer to you going back towards the start, which would it choose when you hit closest entry point.

2 If you were to stop while actually on the route, switch the unit off and then a while later re start the route what would happen, (what does the unit ask).

3 Have you done any real world testing of the unit or has it all been done in simulation.

Many thanks again look forward to your input.
 
A good summary from jfheath, much as I had hoped it would be.

He's right, I have got lazy, referring to Via Points as Waypoints. Garmin does not call Via Points, Waypoints. I'll try not to henceforward.

I can agree with all of his findings, in as much his conclusions mirror mine when I use my Nav V and Nav VI devices. That I also, near enough, use my devices and create my routes in the same - or broadly similar - way as as he does, helps. We differ a little but is just the 'P' in what are very nearly 'Personal' computers, coming into play.

I cannot confirm nor deny jfheath's findings and theories as to the workings of the XT when it comes to the Closest Entry Point, simply as I don't have an XT and my Nav V and VI both lack the option. That being said, as his findings match mine on everything else where I can check him (and as his description of what the XT does matches exactly what I might expect to see it do) I am happy to take him at his word. Similarly, his findings are broadly similar to Tomcat's, which is encouraging by way of reconfirmation.

If nothing else, it does show that the devices are not always the plug-and-play that some people imagine they are or should be. Yes, at their most basic they definitely are. The device will create you a route from the middle of Helsinki to the middle of Lisbon, according to your preference settings, with no problem at all. Turn on automatic route recalculation and you could happily ride the device's route and detour to Berlin, whilst you were at it. But that is just scratching the surface of what the modern devices (especially when married to Basecamp) can and will do. That though comes at a price of learning and trying to understand what the device is doing and why. Similarly, it is dangerous to expect that one model of device will always behave the same way as a different model, even if they are both branded Garmin. My Nav V behaved very differently from my Nav IV and earlier devices; it threw me at first, no question about it. But both my devices behave exactly like their generic Garmin branded immediate cousins.
 
1 when selecting the closest entry point does it always select forward no matter what, in other words if you were at more than half way along the route and you left the route, and then wished to return, but your only point forward was the end of the route, and there were closer via points nearer to you going back towards the start, which would it choose when you hit closest entry point.

I am not sure. I tried a few alternatives - forced a route with an 'n' shaped kink in it which came within a hundred metres or so of my location, with a Via Point just slightly upstream of me. It wouldn't choose that as the Closest Entry. From the experiments I carried out, all of them chose a route downstream - ie in the direction of travel of the route to the final destination. The satnav does know which way the route is heading at all times, so it is possible that it checks this before it even starts to look. I don't think it will choose a point going back to the start even if it is closer - that was what I was testing. Sometimes that would be the best option to get back onto the route.

If there are standard shaping points (ie not ones that are Waypoints) on the route from where you are to the end, it will ignore those and take you straight to the end. See my answer to your question 3.

2 If you were to stop while actually on the route, switch the unit off and then a while later re start the route what would happen, (what does the unit ask).

I haven't got a clue about that, but I can make a pretty good guess. Sorry - I can formulate an intelligent hypothesis.

When the satnav restarts, it has kept the route in the same state as when you left it, and it even knows your position before it gets the satellite signal. (Unless you have moved somewhere else, in which case it knows where you were when you turned it off.) It also know which section of the route you were in, so when you restart it will try to get you back to the next routing point in the route list. My guess is it would continue to naviaget you to the next point on its route. It may skip shaping points silently if you get onto a later section of the magenta route, but it will not skip Via Points silently. You need the Skip button for that. That is my experience with the 590 and the 595. (The 595 has autoskip). The XT has the autoskip feature too, and I have tried that out on the XT and it behaves in the same way as the 595 - so far.

I can see very little difference between the XT navigation and the 595 - but so far this can only be an educated guess. Educated or not, it could prove to be wrong. As time passes and when I can try it on the next shopping trip, I will know a bit more. But its nice to have a theory so that I can create a test to support it, or to prove it to be wrong.

3 Have you done any real world testing of the unit or has it all been done in simulation.

Very little real navigation testing - but I discovered from the 590 and 595 that some things you CAN test without moving anywhere. Take these examples (which relate to your question 1.)

The left picture below shows the Zumo screen zoomed in to show the complete route, but I have zoomed it in to show the last 3 shaping points and the finish point. This is just after the route has been selected. On the XT there is a GO button and a MAP button to its left. This is where this map has come from.

So in this 450 mile trip, the last the last Via point has been passed, the route behind is south and east and I have positioned the motorcycle off route, just up the M6.
Ahead of the motorcycle - to the east and south - there are three more shaping points ahead, and the finish point in the bottom right corner.
So I am about to set off on this route and select Go and Start. Except in the arm chair there is no need to press start - as soon as you press go, it asks for the next destination, I chose 'Closest Entry Point' and it calculates a route - and then displays the map, with a START button in the bottom right.

The image on the right is what it has created. Note that it has missed out all of the blue circle shaping points, and in fact they do not feature on the map at all. Instead it has plotted the fastest route to the next valid Entry Point - the finish being the closest.

47136.png
54801.png



In this second example, I wanted to find out what it would do if I made a Shaping point into a Via Point.
So in the left image which shows the last part of the complete route again, the second point of the three shaping points, east of the bike, is now a flag - a Via Point.

In the right hand image, after selecting Closest Entry Point, In this case it has plotted a route to the flag - and followed the route from there. But intriguing - and not the result that I got yesterday - is that it has also plotted the shaping point to the left of the flag. That point is on the route it has elected to take, so that might be the reason. But I am not convinced by that. I was very clear about what happened yesterday in my tests.

But I update the Zumo software and the maps. I wonder if they made a change. There is no other reason for it to behave differently today, because the route is the same and I carried out the same test, and wrote down the results. Today, the results are different. Hmmm - I need to test this one further. Either the rules have changed or I made a mistake.

65307.png
89829.png
 
Jfheath, many thanks for putting the time in to give these answers. its much appreciated, and judging from some of the results (not all) it appears that the unit behaves in much the same fashion as the earlier units, which is what i would expect, i think until the lock down is lifted, and people who own these devices manage to get out and give them a good road test, the full extent to how they work and what they do is still a bit elusive.
 
Interesting stuff..thanks for the input :thumb

I have had a fair play myself and found exactly the same as regards shaping points
people were telling me to use them not waypoints and like you found out it just ignores them and picks the closest waypoint
I have found you have to be careful not to place a waypoint slightly off the road otherwise the XT seems to insist you visit it

Peolple say whay do you place it just off the road but when you are creating a route and zoomed out in basecamp you can easily do this without noticing it unless you go
through the route afterwards very carefully to check it ( i have never needed to do this before with other Garmin units they just bypass the waypoint as soon as you are 50 yards away from it ) But not the XT
I have found if you plot a route in basecamp that is a u shape say from home to home ish you can be half way along it and go for a joint a closest point
and th XT will take you straight home because it's the closest waypoint and ignore the rest of the route ahead you have planned
Intersting though you say about inconsistency because i have had routes that work fine then they don't without changing anything but location
I have found my own way to make the XT do what i want for now
 
Interesting stuff..thanks for the input :thumb
I have had a fair play myself and found exactly the same as regards shaping points
people were telling me to use them not waypoints and like you found out it just ignores them and picks the closest waypoint
I have found you have to be careful not to place a waypoint slightly off the road otherwise the XT seems to insist you visit it

Nice to have the shaping point issue confirmed by someone else.

I assume that when people suggest that you should not use Waypoints, they probably mean Via Points in a route. Garmin seem to refer to these as Destinations - because they think of them as points on a route where you would want to stop. On the XT when starting a new section of route, it displays an information box on the right of the screen (bottom if in portrait mode) and the info includes distance, time, the names selected roads on the route and a count of the number of 'Stops' and it shows a flag. I don't use Via Points for this, but it is useful to be aware that Garmin seems to think of them like this.

The Closest Point facility is just an extension of the 'Select the Next Destination' feature when starting a route. The satnav displays only the Via Point from which to choose. Whatever you choose the satnav will take you there with nor regard for your route up to that point. It misses out everything - Via Points and Shaping Points. If you have no other Via Points in the route, and you select the last point (because that is in fact your destination for the day) it will take you there and completely miss out every single routing point that you have planned.

Closest Point does more or less the same thing - except it is the XT that chooses which Via Point your route will start, and gets you there using its own routing software, not by following your route up to that point. And it still misses out the Shaping Points and Via Points to get there. So if you have passed your last Via Point, selecting Closest Point will take you to the final stopping place, ignoring all of your Shaping Points in between.

Except there seems to be a new 'feature' with the XT, which reveals itself when using 'Closest Point'. When selecting Closest Point when STARTing a route, the XT will choose a Via Point. It will not choose a Shaping Point. It will not go back against the flow of the route (although how it decides this I have yet to discover). BUT - it will use a non alerting Waypoint. That is, a Waypoint created with the Basecamp Flag Tool, or one obtained from the BC database, placed in the list of resources and then added to the route. If this is made non-alerting it then looks like a Shaping Point, but 'Closest Point' will find it and use it if that point is closest to your position.

Now I really hope that this is not a programming error that is about to be fixed in future releases, because it is really very useful. The XT has a skip button displayed on the screen at all times. When you press it, it asks if you want to skip the next route point ahead, and tells you its name except that only route points that were added with the BC flag waypoint tool keep their name when transferred tot he Zumo. Sometimes the Zumo finds a sensible alternative and names the road. In many cases it just says 'Skip Coordinates'. Using Waypoints lets you identify your points in the Zumo, still gives you the opportunity to set them as 'non-alerting' (like shaping points), and provides more locations for the 'Closest Point' feature to latch on to.


Peolple say whay do you place it just off the road but when you are creating a route and zoomed out in basecamp you can easily do this without noticing it unless you go
through the route afterwards very carefully to check it ( i have never needed to do this before with other Garmin units they just bypass the waypoint as soon as you are 50 yards away from it ) But not the XT
I have found if you plot a route in basecamp that is a u shape say from home to home ish you can be half way along it and go for a joint a closest point
and the XT will take you straight home because it's the closest waypoint and ignore the rest of the route ahead you have planned
The last point I have covered in my answer above.
The first sentence - it depends what you mean by 'Waypoint'. When navigating, the satnav is only concerned with shaping points and via points - (except the non-alerting Waypoint which Closest Point' has identified above).

Shaping Points - yes, you can ignore them. If they are placed in a village and you opt to take the bypass, they WILL nag you to visit the point. But as soon as you rejoin the magenta route at the end of the bypass, it will carry on navigating. (Note I have not tested this with the Zumo XT as yet, but this was true of the 660, 590 and 595). I can't see why the XT would be different, but I still need to test it. Similarly, if you place a point slightly off route, if you go past and ignore it, then you are immediately back on the magenta route after the shaping point. The Zumo carries on without realising that you have missed it.

Via Points will always nag you until you visit. These are what Garmin seems to think of as the stopping places. Why would you want to not visit the place that you are aiming for ? (That is you use them as Garmin seems to think that you should use them). I have noticed however, there is a little bit of leeway. I've only spotted it on a couple of occasions when a carelessly place Via Point would have taken me up a side road. It didn't nag. I think that as soon as it has said 'Approaching xxxxxx on the left' (Or whatever it does say about a quarter of a mile out), you can ignore the point - it seems to regard that as having visited it). But I carefully check each point - it is so easy to get one on the wrong side of a road that turns out to be a dual carriageway, unless you zoom in to each and every point.

Intersting though you say about inconsistency because i have had routes that work fine then they don't without changing anything but location

I don't think I said that it was inconsistent. I certainly got different results, but the Zumo is a computer, it follows a set of rules. So 'inconsistent behaviour' is due to either the user (me in this case) not understanding what the rules are, or some variable information being applied. (Or downloading the latest software changes). One example of this might be traffic data or MyTrends - which will change your routing rules to suit what it knows about the road or your routing preferences. Another such issue is trying to plan a route over the alps, using Basecamp during the dark winter evenings. Time of Year - the high alpine passes are closed !
 
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On Weds I loaded this route between Sandbach (just off map to north) to London using only country roads, although my departure location was Alsager (5 miles south of Sandbach & a few miles east of the created route).

I selected ‘join route at nearest point’ and it took me approx 20 miles south on the A500, south of Stoke and joined the route between waypoints 7 & 8 near Stone.

My avoidances on the XT are motorways, tolls & traffic and set to ‘quickest route’ so it was intelligent enough to get me much quicker to a point on the route by heading in the same direction on quicker roads within the parameters set in the XT. It completely ignored 6 or 7 MyRoute created waypoints.

I ignored the suggested route (with ‘recalculate’ switched off) & simply headed west from Alsager to join the route at the actual closest point.


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