It may have remained in place. I missed one when I replaced the FD on my hexhead and oil covered the FD and brakes etc. in a very short time.
Drive shaft splines.
- Thread starter Peter
- Start date
It may have remained in place. I missed one when I replaced the FD on my hexhead and oil covered the FD and brakes etc. in a very short time.
Smedders
Registered user
so is the seal under the sensor not around it (like a brake piston seal)?
It was under the sensor on my hexhead - it sat in a slight recess in the fd, I haven't dropped it on my 1250
read a query here any failures? wore my rear UJ out on inspection it was not worth rebuilding as the splines were probably 70% worn out dont remember the miles exactly 120k maybe bike used in all weather, greased occassionally with waterproof grease, used for trail riding in latter years and found it difficult to keep water and shit out of it in that scenario.
GaryG
Registered user
Regarding the sensor seal, I went back & took the sensor off again as not knowing was bugging me, anyway I must have missed it the first time I removed it as there it was in a recess on the sensor. Nevertheless thanks for your replies.
ColinC
Registered user
Rusty splines / failed drive shaft UJ & rear drive bearings failed
I'm a newbie, so take it easy on me! I'm also not a techie. I've read all 11 pages. Thanks for any helpful
D) input.
I have a 2015 model GS with 21,000 miles on it. I bought it at 3 years with 12,000 on it. (Yup, fair-weather rider. And I love the GS.)
My questions are: 1. Is it likely that the two following issues are related? 2. Is either fault common-enough to be a design issue that BMW should contribute to the repair. 3. Do you have any other advice that can help me get some BMW support?
Here's what happened:-
I understand that I can go for reconditioned units, or from a scrapper. I want to keep the bike for a while so would prefer BMW to provide some support. They have rejected the claim because (a) I don’t have extended warranty (I’d probably get this with my next GS) and (b) its too old. I believe that if there is a design fault and the splines are not checked as part of the service (which they aren’t) then BMW shares some responsibility.
I can see that 'rusty splines' can be emotional in this post
. Any help would be great. Thanks.
I'm a newbie, so take it easy on me! I'm also not a techie. I've read all 11 pages. Thanks for any helpful
D) input.I have a 2015 model GS with 21,000 miles on it. I bought it at 3 years with 12,000 on it. (Yup, fair-weather rider. And I love the GS.)
My questions are: 1. Is it likely that the two following issues are related? 2. Is either fault common-enough to be a design issue that BMW should contribute to the repair. 3. Do you have any other advice that can help me get some BMW support?
Here's what happened:-
- Rear oil seal failed in April. Bike was taken to Bahnstormer. The last service (inc. rear drive oil change) and MOT was just before in February.
- Was told that the bearings have failed. After a lot of ringing around, although BMW supplies bearings for R Nine T and other GSs, BMW does not supply bearings for my rear drive so I need to buy a new one (£1200 + VAT. £2k all up). I was really lucky, I bought a brand new direct-replacement rear drive for £400.
- When checking it out later, the drive shaft is rusty and the rear UJ is ‘notchy’ – it does not rotate freely. So I need a new drive shaft too. (Around £700).
I understand that I can go for reconditioned units, or from a scrapper. I want to keep the bike for a while so would prefer BMW to provide some support. They have rejected the claim because (a) I don’t have extended warranty (I’d probably get this with my next GS) and (b) its too old. I believe that if there is a design fault and the splines are not checked as part of the service (which they aren’t) then BMW shares some responsibility.
I can see that 'rusty splines' can be emotional in this post
. Any help would be great. Thanks.
I'm a newbie, so take it easy on me! I'm also not a techie. I've read all 11 pages. Thanks for any helpful
I have a 2015 model GS with 21,000 miles on it. I bought it at 3 years with 12,000 on it. (Yup, fair-weather rider. And I love the GS.)
My questions are: 1. Is it likely that the two following issues are related? 2. Is either fault common-enough to be a design issue that BMW should contribute to the repair. 3. Do you have any other advice that can help me get some BMW support?
Here's what happened:-
- Rear oil seal failed in April. Bike was taken to Bahnstormer. The last service (inc. rear drive oil change) and MOT was just before in February.
- Was told that the bearings have failed. After a lot of ringing around, although BMW supplies bearings for R Nine T and other GSs, BMW does not supply bearings for my rear drive so I need to buy a new one (£1200 + VAT. £2k all up). I was really lucky, I bought a brand new direct-replacement rear drive for £400.
- When checking it out later, the drive shaft is rusty and the rear UJ is ‘notchy’ – it does not rotate freely. So I need a new drive shaft too. (Around £700).
I understand that I can go for reconditioned units, or from a scrapper. I want to keep the bike for a while so would prefer BMW to provide some support. They have rejected the claim because (a) I don’t have extended warranty (I’d probably get this with my next GS) and (b) its too old. I believe that if there is a design fault and the splines are not checked as part of the service (which they aren’t) then BMW shares some responsibility.
I can see that 'rusty splines' can be emotional in this post
Dont believe everything your read
1) Why should they contribute to a repair on a bike they / we know very little about - or us for that matter ?
did you buy it from a dealer? or private, was is regularly serviced? home service or dealer service?? all these things help to build up a picture
BTW if you bought a brand new replacement for £400 please share on here where, as i'm sure lots of other members would like to know.
Without knocking your purchase of the drive , until you fit it you dont know how good it is - and if it is nok, it will also need fixing ...
The good news is Mikeyboy on here can repair them fully for a lot less than the cost of a new one
With regards to not being able to get the bearing, that is correct, some components are designed that way.
Too old - no definitely not, sounds like the dealer is trying to fob you off
If you could expand on the history it may be possible to write to the mothership customer services and ask for some goodwill support
ColinC
Registered user
Hi Santa
Thanks for the reply.
The bike: I bought it private. It had the first 2 dealer stamps, then an independent with full invoice. I've taken it to Bahnstormer 3 times for the annual service and MOT since I bought it. Recently had new disks (warped/running thin) and front bearing. I've done everything that Bahnstormer has suggested - so fully serviced.
Rear Drive: The original rear drive on my bike [33748544982] was directly superceded by [33748394281]. BMW has told me that the only difference is that the newer part has additional brake calliper mountings. Other wise interchangeable. My luck was that a chap called Dylan in Wales bought a job lot from Lind in Hatfield. Of course it sounded to good to be true - why sell a £1200 part for £400? He sent me the photos of the brand new in the box drive and it makes sense that Lindt would not be able to sell the previus model. I had the drive shipped to Bahnstormer. I know that Dylan has one more of these in black I believe. I can forward you his details if helpful. I also spoke to (Mike?) at Overland & Classic. He said something like he had not rebuilt any LC drives yet. And I spoke to Lindt, they said that although they have rebuilt similar drives, for some reason BMW does not supply the bearings for my drive and they are non standard. I'm surprised that this is so complicated, but the good news is that I have a brand new original drive.
BMW customer services has rejected Bahnstormer's claim on the basis that my bike is too old and does not have extended warranty. They said that "All new BMW bikes come with a two-year warranty that covers the cost of repairing any manufacturing faults. This is usually more than enough time for these to come to light." I completely understand this period. Equally there is war and peace on UKGSer and Facebook about rusty splines: One YouTube post [bmw r1200gs final drive boot grease service Maintenance ASMR] has 45k views. So owners are aware and concerned. It would be great if all manufacturing issues arise in 2 years. As I said, I'm not technical, but a design that regularly results in rusty (to the point of seizure) splines may well have contributed to my bike failing.
I'm a fair weather rider. I've paid top dollar in good faith for a premium bike from a premium brand. I've put my faith in main dealer servicing, the servicing regime and BMW parts. The rear drive oil was changed in the service just before the failure. The splines are not checked as part of the service programme in the knowledge that rusty splines is an issue. Given that the GS is marketed by a premium brand as a genuine go-anywhere Adventure bike, my question is whether BMW is satisfying its duty of care - or brand promise - by not contributing towards the repair. As it happens I've also only owned BMW cars since 1995 too - so I'm a good customer.
What do you think Santa - am I missing something?
Thanks for the reply.
The bike: I bought it private. It had the first 2 dealer stamps, then an independent with full invoice. I've taken it to Bahnstormer 3 times for the annual service and MOT since I bought it. Recently had new disks (warped/running thin) and front bearing. I've done everything that Bahnstormer has suggested - so fully serviced.
Rear Drive: The original rear drive on my bike [33748544982] was directly superceded by [33748394281]. BMW has told me that the only difference is that the newer part has additional brake calliper mountings. Other wise interchangeable. My luck was that a chap called Dylan in Wales bought a job lot from Lind in Hatfield. Of course it sounded to good to be true - why sell a £1200 part for £400? He sent me the photos of the brand new in the box drive and it makes sense that Lindt would not be able to sell the previus model. I had the drive shipped to Bahnstormer. I know that Dylan has one more of these in black I believe. I can forward you his details if helpful. I also spoke to (Mike?) at Overland & Classic. He said something like he had not rebuilt any LC drives yet. And I spoke to Lindt, they said that although they have rebuilt similar drives, for some reason BMW does not supply the bearings for my drive and they are non standard. I'm surprised that this is so complicated, but the good news is that I have a brand new original drive.
BMW customer services has rejected Bahnstormer's claim on the basis that my bike is too old and does not have extended warranty. They said that "All new BMW bikes come with a two-year warranty that covers the cost of repairing any manufacturing faults. This is usually more than enough time for these to come to light." I completely understand this period. Equally there is war and peace on UKGSer and Facebook about rusty splines: One YouTube post [bmw r1200gs final drive boot grease service Maintenance ASMR] has 45k views. So owners are aware and concerned. It would be great if all manufacturing issues arise in 2 years. As I said, I'm not technical, but a design that regularly results in rusty (to the point of seizure) splines may well have contributed to my bike failing.
I'm a fair weather rider. I've paid top dollar in good faith for a premium bike from a premium brand. I've put my faith in main dealer servicing, the servicing regime and BMW parts. The rear drive oil was changed in the service just before the failure. The splines are not checked as part of the service programme in the knowledge that rusty splines is an issue. Given that the GS is marketed by a premium brand as a genuine go-anywhere Adventure bike, my question is whether BMW is satisfying its duty of care - or brand promise - by not contributing towards the repair. As it happens I've also only owned BMW cars since 1995 too - so I'm a good customer.
What do you think Santa - am I missing something?
Hi Santa
Thanks for the reply.
The bike: I bought it private. It had the first 2 dealer stamps, then an independent with full invoice. I've taken it to Bahnstormer 3 times for the annual service and MOT since I bought it. Recently had new disks (warped/running thin) and front bearing. I've done everything that Bahnstormer has suggested - so fully serviced.
Rear Drive: The original rear drive on my bike [33748544982] was directly superceded by [33748394281]. BMW has told me that the only difference is that the newer part has additional brake calliper mountings. Other wise interchangeable. My luck was that a chap called Dylan in Wales bought a job lot from Lind in Hatfield. Of course it sounded to good to be true - why sell a £1200 part for £400? He sent me the photos of the brand new in the box drive and it makes sense that Lindt would not be able to sell the previus model. I had the drive shipped to Bahnstormer. I know that Dylan has one more of these in black I believe. I can forward you his details if helpful. I also spoke to (Mike?) at Overland & Classic. He said something like he had not rebuilt any LC drives yet. And I spoke to Lindt, they said that although they have rebuilt similar drives, for some reason BMW does not supply the bearings for my drive and they are non standard. I'm surprised that this is so complicated, but the good news is that I have a brand new original drive.
BMW customer services has rejected Bahnstormer's claim on the basis that my bike is too old and does not have extended warranty. They said that "All new BMW bikes come with a two-year warranty that covers the cost of repairing any manufacturing faults. This is usually more than enough time for these to come to light." I completely understand this period. Equally there is war and peace on UKGSer and Facebook about rusty splines: One YouTube post [bmw r1200gs final drive boot grease service Maintenance ASMR] has 45k views. So owners are aware and concerned. It would be great if all manufacturing issues arise in 2 years. As I said, I'm not technical, but a design that regularly results in rusty (to the point of seizure) splines may well have contributed to my bike failing.
I'm a fair weather rider. I've paid top dollar in good faith for a premium bike from a premium brand. I've put my faith in main dealer servicing, the servicing regime and BMW parts. The rear drive oil was changed in the service just before the failure. The splines are not checked as part of the service programme in the knowledge that rusty splines is an issue. Given that the GS is marketed by a premium brand as a genuine go-anywhere Adventure bike, my question is whether BMW is satisfying its duty of care - or brand promise - by not contributing towards the repair. As it happens I've also only owned BMW cars since 1995 too - so I'm a good customer.
What do you think Santa - am I missing something?
Purely my take on it but I think your flogging a dead horse for anything other than goodwill.
Whilst I’m in the “ there should be an inspection in the service schedule” camp, I don’t think that will carry any sway with BMW. The water that causes the corrosion is just as likely to have come from direct blasts from jet washers etc as from wet weather. Nearly every manufacturer warns against this, so it can easily be self inflicted. My bike (14 plate) has zero corrosion on the shaft but I check it and re grease the boot seal annually. I suspect that is where the water gets in. The shaft corrosion is a symptom of the above rather than a fault in itself. If a bike is regularly jet washed I think the owner has some responsibility to inspect areas that might have suffered ingress. It may not be the case for you but what about previous owners.
isn't there a bit of EU law, that says parts have to be available, for 10 yrs from purchase or manufacture ?
yes i know we left , i bet you it's on our "books "
which actual part/s
yes i know we left , i bet you it's on our "books "
which actual part/s
That’s correct , they do offer the parts , unfortunately it’s the whole final drive. I will apply my tin hat now ….. chain and sprockets seem quite cheap now
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The oem, should supply spare parts for 10 years after the end of vehicle life
However the devil is in the detail.
An assembly, ie rear drive unit is a spare part. so if the whole unit and some parts inside (seals and or some bearings) were available during the lifetime of the vehicle, then
they should be available for 10 years after the vehicle last rolled off the production line.
It starts to get tricky if yo have a vehicle at 15-20 years past EOP, as some of the spares may by that time be unavailable
The other thing to factor in, is that some parts may be whats called black box, in that the parts in the assembly are propriety, and the original supplier does not sell spares, so
that if you want a replacement you have to buy a whole new unit.
There are other factors that come into play - cost of repair vs cost of part, ease of repair vs cost etc .
Yes it may seem unfair, that a unit is written off because of one part inside, but thats the price we pay for plug and play, quick turnaround, cheap parts etc
this is not directed at your problem, but an observation seen throghout many indistrys ..
when was the last time a tv repair man visited your house and soldered components to a board? now days its cheaper to replace a complete circuit board than to repair a single component
its progress unfortunalty
However the devil is in the detail.
An assembly, ie rear drive unit is a spare part. so if the whole unit and some parts inside (seals and or some bearings) were available during the lifetime of the vehicle, then
they should be available for 10 years after the vehicle last rolled off the production line.
It starts to get tricky if yo have a vehicle at 15-20 years past EOP, as some of the spares may by that time be unavailable
The other thing to factor in, is that some parts may be whats called black box, in that the parts in the assembly are propriety, and the original supplier does not sell spares, so
that if you want a replacement you have to buy a whole new unit.
There are other factors that come into play - cost of repair vs cost of part, ease of repair vs cost etc .
Yes it may seem unfair, that a unit is written off because of one part inside, but thats the price we pay for plug and play, quick turnaround, cheap parts etc
this is not directed at your problem, but an observation seen throghout many indistrys ..
when was the last time a tv repair man visited your house and soldered components to a board? now days its cheaper to replace a complete circuit board than to repair a single component
its progress unfortunalty
ColinC
Registered user
Thanks Guys.
Rear drive
I don't have a real issue that the rear drive is 'a sealed unit'. It is just that I've been told by a dealer that BMW supplies the bearings for many of the rear drives. Just not for my 2015 model GS. However I've sourced a brand new replacement drive so this is not an issue, for me.
Rusty Splines/Faulty UJ
The really difficult point to grasp is how common rust is on the splines. There are comments on this thread that the rust is caused by condensation. I have seen many stories online that very new bikes have this issue - even to the point that a number of people have commented that there does not even appear to be grease from the factory. I'm not saying that is the case - just those are the comments and that is their observation.
I know from this thread there is a 'so what?' camp. My 'so what' is that I'm wondering whether my rusty splines could have contributed to the faulty UJ - which means I need a new shaft drive. If it could have contributed, then there is a chance that poor design has created an issue.
Supporting other GS Riders not so much 'in the know'
And given that this is such a wide spread problem (unless as many people do, they know about it and grease it themselves), and it seems to be a real ballache to separate seized splines, would it be helpful for owners to be notified by the dealer at service and given the optional opportunity for dealers to check and grease the splines. This would not be an acceptance of BMW design - just an observation of real world 'stuff'.
Or am I missing the point?
BMW support
Yup, to me, given all the above, and because this is so widespread, I'm disappointed that BMW is (a) not increasing awareness during the service - even if only optional, and (b) in my case not providing any support.
Rear drive
I don't have a real issue that the rear drive is 'a sealed unit'. It is just that I've been told by a dealer that BMW supplies the bearings for many of the rear drives. Just not for my 2015 model GS. However I've sourced a brand new replacement drive so this is not an issue, for me.
Rusty Splines/Faulty UJ
The really difficult point to grasp is how common rust is on the splines. There are comments on this thread that the rust is caused by condensation. I have seen many stories online that very new bikes have this issue - even to the point that a number of people have commented that there does not even appear to be grease from the factory. I'm not saying that is the case - just those are the comments and that is their observation.
I know from this thread there is a 'so what?' camp. My 'so what' is that I'm wondering whether my rusty splines could have contributed to the faulty UJ - which means I need a new shaft drive. If it could have contributed, then there is a chance that poor design has created an issue.
Supporting other GS Riders not so much 'in the know'
And given that this is such a wide spread problem (unless as many people do, they know about it and grease it themselves), and it seems to be a real ballache to separate seized splines, would it be helpful for owners to be notified by the dealer at service and given the optional opportunity for dealers to check and grease the splines. This would not be an acceptance of BMW design - just an observation of real world 'stuff'.
Or am I missing the point?
BMW support
Yup, to me, given all the above, and because this is so widespread, I'm disappointed that BMW is (a) not increasing awareness during the service - even if only optional, and (b) in my case not providing any support.
ColinC
Registered user
Hi Santa
And I forgot.... yes I would only be looking for a BMW contribution under goodwill. The bike is out of warranty. But as I've said, I've paid top dollar for BMW dealer support and this is a well documented problem. I was only hoping for some kind of BMW goodwill - much as I keep buying BMW cars - and now bike - through goodwill. That's is brand value: difficult to build, easier to taint.
And I forgot.... yes I would only be looking for a BMW contribution under goodwill. The bike is out of warranty. But as I've said, I've paid top dollar for BMW dealer support and this is a well documented problem. I was only hoping for some kind of BMW goodwill - much as I keep buying BMW cars - and now bike - through goodwill. That's is brand value: difficult to build, easier to taint.
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