Bought and AFXIED unit, plugged it in...rode the bike...job done.��
VX800 and a GS with a booster plug
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got 2 ideas on software mods for additional features, if they pan out, I might buy it.... the bevel is rattling like its about to die.... I never realised at the time... the steel hub recall, is just a way to kill it off faster !!!! the slop which was bad increased 3 fold afterwards.... and on the k1300 the wheel bearing became worn out directly after and it was still in warranty but I only noticed the slop the day I sold it !
what I've learnt in last few months... have a pop if you must....
I have noticed a few peculiarities of the electronics on these bikes that seem to suggest many should wipe the stored engine adaptions and start again...
All modern engine management systems have a separate area in the engine ECU with a customisation area within its software map to store individual bike specific adjustments (I guess for fueling and ignition timing). In the industry these are known as "adaptions", the main idea is to subtlety fine tune each bike to match its specific random build (due to varying manufacturing tolerances), the available fuel quality, vehicle use, conditions, wear and tear etc.
In general the “adaptions” just continually evolve over the vehicles lifetime. This can be a sub-optimal way of leaving things as various factors can cause this to go off in the wrong direction, and lock in worse running, poor performance, bad fuel use and less optimal emissions.
For example, if the previous owner often bought the wrong fuel, serviced the bike poorly. At some stage the vehicle had an issue with significant misfire. The bike needed a new fuel pump or regulator. Or say a software update was undertaken and the lazy dealer never cleared the old adaption data, and or failed to explain how to go about rebuilding the now needed new adaptions. You can have a muddled mix of rubbish locked in making the bike perform and ride badly. Many will just be used to the way the bike rides and not know it could be vastly better for no expenditure.
As an example I had a power commander on the bike, until recently I didn’t know, as soon as the bike is operated without its CAT sensors (a must for the power commander to operate as intended), the bike just locks in forever the adaptions it had up to that point. They never evolve anymore, trying to correct for poor running conditions / wear etc. And stupidly the bike can no longer swap through its built in maps for big altitude changes etc. So in my instance when I had a new map from a dealership and the bike was troublesome and I couldn’t get it to run as well as the old inferior map did. A main driver was a set of old adaptions for the original map and those operating conditions are now completely irrelevant.
The adaptions actually rebuild very rapidly and a reset could be a very good idea. However as my bike was settling down nicely to its new adaptions, I decided to clean the throttle bodies and the inlet system of 30k’s worth of oil mist, dust etc. by using with a bit of water meth injection, (this isn’t that radical, many performance mods, use water meth as a way to reduce engine knock and up performance). However, whilst its probably cleaned it up a bit so it should run better, the bike objected to this 5 min cleaning situation, and it seems its negatively impacted the adaptions and has not come out the other side in a good place.
What I have just experienced, is it appears if the bike has ever had a serious misfire, e.g. coil sick failure, miss fueling issue, water ingestion causing a tiny misfire etc. the adaptions don’t get over it (either, quickly or at all). It feels nothing like a limp mode condition (where it drops into a low power, get me home / to a dealer to be resolved mode), in fact its normal everywhere, except the low down fueling on a light throttle, where it's now atrocious and really jerky, and 100 miles in there is zero improvement back towards normal. But now with another reset of the adaptions, it has got me straight back to normal, and possibly better than ever within 20 miles.
Using the GS911 (or now I believe the Motoscan app has the feature - but I haven’t found where yet), inside 10 minutes you can wipe the junk and just rebuild good new ones afresh. Yet even here I find the 911 instructions sub optimal. It suggests you can do it all on the center stand without riding the bike inside a few minutes. Stating once “adaptions are wiped” you must have the bike running through every gear for at least 10 seconds before the change is locked in..
Now to the main point of the post....
Having done this three times in the last few months and this week realising the lamba addative fuel trims behave differently, I think the initial set up has a significant impact, and doing it first on the center stand is not the best way. And as the Twin Cam bikes are specifically meant to operate ONLY on high octane fuel for optimum running, performance and fuel consumption. I’d want to start my new adaption build, only after the bike has been running on the correct spec high octane, fresh fuel.
The procedure and what happens with the bike regarding how its long term adaptions evolve each ride, only happens when certain conditions are met. Which allegedly is when the bike has started, rides through all its gears and then after turning off the key, 10 seconds later the bike stores the “improvements it’s made”. This would make a lot of sense, for example chugging repeatedly on cold start enrichment through the winter without riding, would not be something you’d want to add to the good adaption info stored (and is very bad for an engine either way).
So if you do it all on the centre stand with low octane fuel. That initial 3 mins running become the first stab of how the bike runs forevermore at whatever temp it was at when you did it. And whilst yes, it evolves so why care. It seems to evolve a better starting point with a proper run. So my procedure would be fill the tank from empty with full fat high octane fuel and ride home 10 or so miles. Then next day wipe the adaptions. Now put on your bike gear and then start it and straightaway go on a 20 mile trip. Riding gently on a light throttle, letting the bike reach its full operating temp. And slowly ride in each gear, at various revs and throttle application. Allowing the bike to find its feet gradually. Towards the end of the ride do the odd large throttle roll on. Then do a bit of higher, steady RPM running. But avoid full throttle or really hard riding. Apparently the lambda stuff stops comms on full throttle (I don’t know why it’s what others say). Now turn it off and let it save the changes. Next ride try to do the same sort of thing.
I just got back from a third run after doing this, and its running far more happily than it was after the misfire upset with the water meth incident. With a ten fold decrease in jerky silliness around 2% throttle application
I have noticed a few peculiarities of the electronics on these bikes that seem to suggest many should wipe the stored engine adaptions and start again...
All modern engine management systems have a separate area in the engine ECU with a customisation area within its software map to store individual bike specific adjustments (I guess for fueling and ignition timing). In the industry these are known as "adaptions", the main idea is to subtlety fine tune each bike to match its specific random build (due to varying manufacturing tolerances), the available fuel quality, vehicle use, conditions, wear and tear etc.
In general the “adaptions” just continually evolve over the vehicles lifetime. This can be a sub-optimal way of leaving things as various factors can cause this to go off in the wrong direction, and lock in worse running, poor performance, bad fuel use and less optimal emissions.
For example, if the previous owner often bought the wrong fuel, serviced the bike poorly. At some stage the vehicle had an issue with significant misfire. The bike needed a new fuel pump or regulator. Or say a software update was undertaken and the lazy dealer never cleared the old adaption data, and or failed to explain how to go about rebuilding the now needed new adaptions. You can have a muddled mix of rubbish locked in making the bike perform and ride badly. Many will just be used to the way the bike rides and not know it could be vastly better for no expenditure.
As an example I had a power commander on the bike, until recently I didn’t know, as soon as the bike is operated without its CAT sensors (a must for the power commander to operate as intended), the bike just locks in forever the adaptions it had up to that point. They never evolve anymore, trying to correct for poor running conditions / wear etc. And stupidly the bike can no longer swap through its built in maps for big altitude changes etc. So in my instance when I had a new map from a dealership and the bike was troublesome and I couldn’t get it to run as well as the old inferior map did. A main driver was a set of old adaptions for the original map and those operating conditions are now completely irrelevant.
The adaptions actually rebuild very rapidly and a reset could be a very good idea. However as my bike was settling down nicely to its new adaptions, I decided to clean the throttle bodies and the inlet system of 30k’s worth of oil mist, dust etc. by using with a bit of water meth injection, (this isn’t that radical, many performance mods, use water meth as a way to reduce engine knock and up performance). However, whilst its probably cleaned it up a bit so it should run better, the bike objected to this 5 min cleaning situation, and it seems its negatively impacted the adaptions and has not come out the other side in a good place.
What I have just experienced, is it appears if the bike has ever had a serious misfire, e.g. coil sick failure, miss fueling issue, water ingestion causing a tiny misfire etc. the adaptions don’t get over it (either, quickly or at all). It feels nothing like a limp mode condition (where it drops into a low power, get me home / to a dealer to be resolved mode), in fact its normal everywhere, except the low down fueling on a light throttle, where it's now atrocious and really jerky, and 100 miles in there is zero improvement back towards normal. But now with another reset of the adaptions, it has got me straight back to normal, and possibly better than ever within 20 miles.
Using the GS911 (or now I believe the Motoscan app has the feature - but I haven’t found where yet), inside 10 minutes you can wipe the junk and just rebuild good new ones afresh. Yet even here I find the 911 instructions sub optimal. It suggests you can do it all on the center stand without riding the bike inside a few minutes. Stating once “adaptions are wiped” you must have the bike running through every gear for at least 10 seconds before the change is locked in..
Now to the main point of the post....
Having done this three times in the last few months and this week realising the lamba addative fuel trims behave differently, I think the initial set up has a significant impact, and doing it first on the center stand is not the best way. And as the Twin Cam bikes are specifically meant to operate ONLY on high octane fuel for optimum running, performance and fuel consumption. I’d want to start my new adaption build, only after the bike has been running on the correct spec high octane, fresh fuel.
The procedure and what happens with the bike regarding how its long term adaptions evolve each ride, only happens when certain conditions are met. Which allegedly is when the bike has started, rides through all its gears and then after turning off the key, 10 seconds later the bike stores the “improvements it’s made”. This would make a lot of sense, for example chugging repeatedly on cold start enrichment through the winter without riding, would not be something you’d want to add to the good adaption info stored (and is very bad for an engine either way).
So if you do it all on the centre stand with low octane fuel. That initial 3 mins running become the first stab of how the bike runs forevermore at whatever temp it was at when you did it. And whilst yes, it evolves so why care. It seems to evolve a better starting point with a proper run. So my procedure would be fill the tank from empty with full fat high octane fuel and ride home 10 or so miles. Then next day wipe the adaptions. Now put on your bike gear and then start it and straightaway go on a 20 mile trip. Riding gently on a light throttle, letting the bike reach its full operating temp. And slowly ride in each gear, at various revs and throttle application. Allowing the bike to find its feet gradually. Towards the end of the ride do the odd large throttle roll on. Then do a bit of higher, steady RPM running. But avoid full throttle or really hard riding. Apparently the lambda stuff stops comms on full throttle (I don’t know why it’s what others say). Now turn it off and let it save the changes. Next ride try to do the same sort of thing.
I just got back from a third run after doing this, and its running far more happily than it was after the misfire upset with the water meth incident. With a ten fold decrease in jerky silliness around 2% throttle application
The Adaptions that you refer to on the center stand is re-programing the gear position sensor ( Actually a potentiometer). Re learning the gears which is Potentiometer impedance Vs. Engine RPM Vs. Road Speed.
To re - learn the fuel adaptations it will take a few tanks of fuel for the long term fuel trims to learn from the short term fuel trims.
To re - learn the fuel adaptations it will take a few tanks of fuel for the long term fuel trims to learn from the short term fuel trims.
ah, ok, thanks for the info.... FYI they seem to have now added in the stepper motor calibration automatically after the adaption reset. Sure didn't do that on 20.4, but 21.4 def does it every time.
For me it would make a lot of sense to only store any adjustments after a sensible run through full range of engine temps and conditions.
I just reset its adaptions on my Merc. It has two ! cold start adaptions and normal adaptations, reset both. Convinced myself as might as well, after what I written above. In particular coz:
1) it had a map update years back and I'm sure they don't know what they are doing
2) the CPS popped and it stalled a few times, before replacement
3) along with above and all its other designed to die componentry, it has done 5 of its 8 coil packs in the last 3 years, with some big misfires before I got home to replace them
just done 25 miles and it looks like the MPG is slightly up, and that's over a more varied run giving it a bit more than normal…. usually anything other than just above tickover revs and grandad style, gets low numbers in the 17-19 range and I got 21, beating its usual awful ave for all round and mostly stuck in town disaster.
For me it would make a lot of sense to only store any adjustments after a sensible run through full range of engine temps and conditions.
I just reset its adaptions on my Merc. It has two ! cold start adaptions and normal adaptations, reset both. Convinced myself as might as well, after what I written above. In particular coz:
1) it had a map update years back and I'm sure they don't know what they are doing
2) the CPS popped and it stalled a few times, before replacement
3) along with above and all its other designed to die componentry, it has done 5 of its 8 coil packs in the last 3 years, with some big misfires before I got home to replace them
just done 25 miles and it looks like the MPG is slightly up, and that's over a more varied run giving it a bit more than normal…. usually anything other than just above tickover revs and grandad style, gets low numbers in the 17-19 range and I got 21, beating its usual awful ave for all round and mostly stuck in town disaster.
third time unlucky...
for anyone that followed this ramble, last PC3 change more than a year back was all strange and confusing and it got a zero map and the CAT sensors back on as I was getting a puma case raised as the map was always worse than the earlier one....
during that BM escalation procedure they just re flashed the bike and reset its adaption so the bike starts life afresh and rebuilds adaptions suitable to the map its got - rather than wrongly remembering how it needed to manage the factory release joke from years earlier and then trying to join two different bits of guess work together....
by now I almost understood how it works and with the CAT sensors on the bike and everything stock, whilst rebuilding new adaptions it appeared fairly happy,
on off an almost closed throttle round town was better
mid range dead spot was much better
fuelling through 1200 to 4000 rpm was nicer and almost close enough to live with.
but then the world started to get worse and worse again - with it unliveable by 250 miles.
So after listening to mistacat I decided to totally disconnect the PC3 till it was 100% wired with the PC3 out of the equation, (not just CAT sensors on and PC3 attached with a zero map) ...And worryingly I found some slight corrosion on the TPS sensor pins and wondered if that was causing it to adapt oddly. I cleaned it up and re made all connections (TPS and Injectors) using some ACF50 for good measure. But just like I had before the puma case, I re checked the TPS was going 0% to 100% and it was still seemingly perfect, like its always been.
Then I reset the adaptions again and get the exact same scenario - seems acceptable but with 250 miles under it belt it was awful and worse than it had been for 10 years. It was like riding with the original map, a recalcitrant pig of shocking incompetence and nastiness. And you could no longer run under 3k without its shaking the instruments and running so badly you don't try.
Had a bit of a service, oil and filter, a new air filter, cleaned the AIT with contact cleaner, cleaned gunk from the throttle bodies, added a fresh tank of ESSO ethanol free 99 super unleaded, reset the adaptions yet again and its great for 150 miles then goes slowly wrong again - so by 250 miles you want to throw it away
Then I get Option 630 ASC flashed to the bike 4th June this year at a BMW dealership, I'm convinced it's made a transformation to the bike, somehow the bevel I was convinced had about 20 minutes left before armageddon was silent and you didn't notice it (and 200 plus miles on still don't ???). Pages back I even suggest the later map felt like its got TC built in and runs terribly in the middle as if its being held back. And such is the transformation on how its riding after adding Option 630 I wonder if they remapped it. But clearly all software is identical. All they do it the very steps motoscan lets you do, tick a few boxes Cluster and Engine.... but then they update the VO till all three modules actually talk to one another!!!
So maybe all it was, is its got its adaptions reset yet again.... and what's happening now 200 miles in after ACS 630 added ??? its running like a dog all over again…. but the bevel is still oddly quiet !
What I do seem to notice is some correlation when its above 22C, then it runs great and under 18 its a right pig, but I can't believe its that simple or why ever since the later map in 2018 it might have ambient temp issues of such extremes.
Which leaves me with does it have a leaky injector.... a reset works then as it tries to fight/correct for a drip it gets carried away.... ????
for anyone that followed this ramble, last PC3 change more than a year back was all strange and confusing and it got a zero map and the CAT sensors back on as I was getting a puma case raised as the map was always worse than the earlier one....
during that BM escalation procedure they just re flashed the bike and reset its adaption so the bike starts life afresh and rebuilds adaptions suitable to the map its got - rather than wrongly remembering how it needed to manage the factory release joke from years earlier and then trying to join two different bits of guess work together....
by now I almost understood how it works and with the CAT sensors on the bike and everything stock, whilst rebuilding new adaptions it appeared fairly happy,
on off an almost closed throttle round town was better
mid range dead spot was much better
fuelling through 1200 to 4000 rpm was nicer and almost close enough to live with.
but then the world started to get worse and worse again - with it unliveable by 250 miles.
So after listening to mistacat I decided to totally disconnect the PC3 till it was 100% wired with the PC3 out of the equation, (not just CAT sensors on and PC3 attached with a zero map) ...And worryingly I found some slight corrosion on the TPS sensor pins and wondered if that was causing it to adapt oddly. I cleaned it up and re made all connections (TPS and Injectors) using some ACF50 for good measure. But just like I had before the puma case, I re checked the TPS was going 0% to 100% and it was still seemingly perfect, like its always been.
Then I reset the adaptions again and get the exact same scenario - seems acceptable but with 250 miles under it belt it was awful and worse than it had been for 10 years. It was like riding with the original map, a recalcitrant pig of shocking incompetence and nastiness. And you could no longer run under 3k without its shaking the instruments and running so badly you don't try.
Had a bit of a service, oil and filter, a new air filter, cleaned the AIT with contact cleaner, cleaned gunk from the throttle bodies, added a fresh tank of ESSO ethanol free 99 super unleaded, reset the adaptions yet again and its great for 150 miles then goes slowly wrong again - so by 250 miles you want to throw it away
Then I get Option 630 ASC flashed to the bike 4th June this year at a BMW dealership, I'm convinced it's made a transformation to the bike, somehow the bevel I was convinced had about 20 minutes left before armageddon was silent and you didn't notice it (and 200 plus miles on still don't ???). Pages back I even suggest the later map felt like its got TC built in and runs terribly in the middle as if its being held back. And such is the transformation on how its riding after adding Option 630 I wonder if they remapped it. But clearly all software is identical. All they do it the very steps motoscan lets you do, tick a few boxes Cluster and Engine.... but then they update the VO till all three modules actually talk to one another!!!
So maybe all it was, is its got its adaptions reset yet again.... and what's happening now 200 miles in after ACS 630 added ??? its running like a dog all over again…. but the bevel is still oddly quiet !
What I do seem to notice is some correlation when its above 22C, then it runs great and under 18 its a right pig, but I can't believe its that simple or why ever since the later map in 2018 it might have ambient temp issues of such extremes.
Which leaves me with does it have a leaky injector.... a reset works then as it tries to fight/correct for a drip it gets carried away.... ????
I'm a bit lost now.
What is the status of the engine? Is the PC still used, and are the O2 sensors connected?
I don't thing adding the ASC option will do anything to the fueling.
If the engine runs smooth shortly after a adaption-reset, I would suspect that the injectors are ok.
What is the status of the engine? Is the PC still used, and are the O2 sensors connected?
I don't thing adding the ASC option will do anything to the fueling.
If the engine runs smooth shortly after a adaption-reset, I would suspect that the injectors are ok.
the engine is perfect - FYI I was a great motor vehicle tech on RR & Jags
the PC3 is NOT on the bike
the software is 100% BMW with everything connected (but it was running better after option 650 ASC added) - but then it was warm temps and it always seems to run better above 22C - ASC seemed to transform it - though agree it should do nothing) ASC was added by BM dealer
It had all 4 new coil packs less than 1500 miles ago (if anything it felt harsher afterwards but power is the same)
It had new plugs 1500 miles ago again runs the same
It had valve clearances set perfectly 1500 miles ago
Oil and air filter changed 200 miles ago
It had a fuel pump from BMW under a recall maybe 8k miles ago (again runs exactly the same before or after)
It shows no fault codes
It makes proper power everywhere
Reset the adaptions, ride for 50 miles to let it settle over a few trips, it seems better, smother, better very stable idle, you can even tickle it up the revs step by step when stationary, its almost acceptable - then as it gets towards 250 miles it goes to shit - exact same behaviour 3 times in a row.... But I mostly notice it's horrible when ambient temps around or below 18C
Just thinking its almost as if its on super unleaded after adaption reset
then 250 miles later on E10 basic grot running like it does over there....
I usually fill at the same place and use esso 99
the PC3 is NOT on the bike
the software is 100% BMW with everything connected (but it was running better after option 650 ASC added) - but then it was warm temps and it always seems to run better above 22C - ASC seemed to transform it - though agree it should do nothing) ASC was added by BM dealer
It had all 4 new coil packs less than 1500 miles ago (if anything it felt harsher afterwards but power is the same)
It had new plugs 1500 miles ago again runs the same
It had valve clearances set perfectly 1500 miles ago
Oil and air filter changed 200 miles ago
It had a fuel pump from BMW under a recall maybe 8k miles ago (again runs exactly the same before or after)
It shows no fault codes
It makes proper power everywhere
Reset the adaptions, ride for 50 miles to let it settle over a few trips, it seems better, smother, better very stable idle, you can even tickle it up the revs step by step when stationary, its almost acceptable - then as it gets towards 250 miles it goes to shit - exact same behaviour 3 times in a row.... But I mostly notice it's horrible when ambient temps around or below 18C
Just thinking its almost as if its on super unleaded after adaption reset
then 250 miles later on E10 basic grot running like it does over there....
I usually fill at the same place and use esso 99
From your description, it appears to be the o2 sensors that force the fueling to go lean. Not danger-type lean, but rather emission control lean.
If you are happy with the characteristics whenever the adaption values are reset, the reset means that the engine will go slightly rich compared to the emission values (this is probably done in order to make sure that the engine will run properly until the adaptions have done their 'thing'. The reset confirms that the engine will run properly as long as it gets enough fuel.
From what I see, there are two options:
- Go to a proper tuner and have them tune the engine (they are able to lock the tuning from falling back to emission-standard.
- AF-XIED will interfere with the feedback from the O2 sensors, and will also ensure that the fueling is kept richer than emission-standard.
thanks for the advice 
hey on get someone to tune it... on that front I was asking more than a year back why Woolwich racing never bothered to get rich doing BMW's.... and in my inbox in the last few week
https://www.woolichracing.co.uk/pro...17-bmw-r-ninet-ecu-flashing.aspx#productTable where they can now do the TC lump on the R Nine T
just need someone going to USA to bring back a suit case of AF-XIEDs
hey on get someone to tune it... on that front I was asking more than a year back why Woolwich racing never bothered to get rich doing BMW's.... and in my inbox in the last few week
https://www.woolichracing.co.uk/pro...17-bmw-r-ninet-ecu-flashing.aspx#productTable where they can now do the TC lump on the R Nine T
just need someone going to USA to bring back a suit case of AF-XIEDs
thanks for the advice
hey on get someone to tune it... on that front I was asking more than a year back why Woolwich racing never bothered to get rich doing BMW's.... and in my inbox in the last few week
https://www.woolichracing.co.uk/pro...17-bmw-r-ninet-ecu-flashing.aspx#productTable where they can now do the TC lump on the R Nine T
just need someone going to USA to bring back a suit case of AF-XIEDs
Brexit surely introduced new challenges...
I must admit though that I don't quite get what the problem is. My country is not in EU either, but we have no problem ordering from the US.
Well, if they don't want to ship it from the US, there is only so much that can be done.....
Without reading back through this post I assume that you have checked the reported values of the sensors that could effect the adaptations, air temperature sensor in the airbox , barometric pressure sensor built into the ecu etc.
when the lambda sensors fail the ecu resorts to a default lambda = 1 but do the lambda figures look true.
I think knutk has hit the nail on the head with the default being rich and being adapted back to 14.7 to 1.
AF- XIED`s are the answer , when they first came on the market I approached Jersey Harley Davidson who were distributing the Harley version for Night Rider, but at the time they were not interested in getting involved with the BMW models , Might be worth another try. I had to go to Beamer Bone yard, it is a shame that they have stopped sending to the UK.
I am surprised that NN have not started distribution.
when the lambda sensors fail the ecu resorts to a default lambda = 1 but do the lambda figures look true.
I think knutk has hit the nail on the head with the default being rich and being adapted back to 14.7 to 1.
AF- XIED`s are the answer , when they first came on the market I approached Jersey Harley Davidson who were distributing the Harley version for Night Rider, but at the time they were not interested in getting involved with the BMW models , Might be worth another try. I had to go to Beamer Bone yard, it is a shame that they have stopped sending to the UK.
I am surprised that NN have not started distribution.
I think you guys hit on the servicing trick BMW use.... reset adaptions and it rides nice. That way after each service done right, you notice how sweet the bike runs....
you could also do it for the demo and the journalist bike's, leave the REAL map legal, but tweak the adaptions to make it run extra well (aka smooth and fast) and fit the very bit of plastic that fakes the connection but doesn't actually connect the wires. Then when it goes back to dealer network you reconnect the CATs. I had one of these sockets on the loom for the aux lights plug where it clips up beside the ZFE - its the exact bit to join but not connect the wires of the CAT sensors
So top tip fill with super unleaded, reset adaptions go for three long runs (50 miles each) then disconnect the CAT sensor and its much closer to a well set up powercomander than people want you to know.
you could also do it for the demo and the journalist bike's, leave the REAL map legal, but tweak the adaptions to make it run extra well (aka smooth and fast) and fit the very bit of plastic that fakes the connection but doesn't actually connect the wires. Then when it goes back to dealer network you reconnect the CATs. I had one of these sockets on the loom for the aux lights plug where it clips up beside the ZFE - its the exact bit to join but not connect the wires of the CAT sensors
So top tip fill with super unleaded, reset adaptions go for three long runs (50 miles each) then disconnect the CAT sensor and its much closer to a well set up powercomander than people want you to know.
so did as I suggest everyone does (directly above) and then after disconnecting the CAT sensor (after letting the bike settle for 150 miles) the bike stops messing about. And you could suffer the best the bikes ever been.... (but it's not quite there). So now it runs a map that's almost there and not some self morphing lunacy, the PC3 can come back in to play... and I've got it running better than it ever did everywhere (aside from one spot)
I've only added up to 3 or taken off 3, it doesn't seem to need more (out of +-20 you can)
1700 to 2250 rpm at low throttle I'm actually using less than BMW and it so much better...
2500 to 3250 rpm added a smidge at low throttle and its brilliant...
those mods mean you can focus on where you're going, rather than wobbling about as it misbehaves, its like liquid gold smoothness. And then if stuck with the plebs you can run 2 gears higher and save 50% of gearchanges. Just that flat spot at 4500 where it holds back a bit - I remember it was rubbish at the exact spot from new, but on the old map when I tweaked the fuelling it disappeared - as I've said I think the later map they wound back the ignition to reduce that rough spot the bike inherently has there. So its not a simple fix on the later map. It pulls hard 3 to 4 mental 5 to 7, but mid 4 its lost at least 10bhp that it could have if BMW knew what they were doing....
If I work out better fuelling that helps I come back.
I've only added up to 3 or taken off 3, it doesn't seem to need more (out of +-20 you can)
1700 to 2250 rpm at low throttle I'm actually using less than BMW and it so much better...
2500 to 3250 rpm added a smidge at low throttle and its brilliant...
those mods mean you can focus on where you're going, rather than wobbling about as it misbehaves, its like liquid gold smoothness. And then if stuck with the plebs you can run 2 gears higher and save 50% of gearchanges. Just that flat spot at 4500 where it holds back a bit - I remember it was rubbish at the exact spot from new, but on the old map when I tweaked the fuelling it disappeared - as I've said I think the later map they wound back the ignition to reduce that rough spot the bike inherently has there. So its not a simple fix on the later map. It pulls hard 3 to 4 mental 5 to 7, but mid 4 its lost at least 10bhp that it could have if BMW knew what they were doing....
If I work out better fuelling that helps I come back.
some progress on the dip at 4500rpm and its revving through much better than it has for 3 year since the trash map BMW now peddle went on the bike - the solution makes me go all the way back to the start of this thread and ask WTF are BMW doing...
fuel adjustment at 100% throttle
4250 -4%
4500 -7%
4750 -3%
and for the first time in 3 years it almost feels normal
fuel adjustment at 100% throttle
4250 -4%
4500 -7%
4750 -3%
and for the first time in 3 years it almost feels normal
did 100 miles today with these adjustments and for the first time in 4 years I thought it ran close enough BMW could actually put the bike out for sale !!!!
Note: the dead spot that really offended was exclusively the crazy extra fuel killing the engine at 4250 to 5250 rpm on full throttle - I'm not convinced the minuses are minus 11% fuel, I suspect its minus 11 widgets of adjustment over the mess BMW make. But I suspect 5 widgets = 1 jet size in the old world
I can now go down to 18 mph in 4th and its ok, the difference between 3k to 4k at low throttle is frankly ridiculous, yet the change to get it to run correctly is tiny
Note: the dead spot that really offended was exclusively the crazy extra fuel killing the engine at 4250 to 5250 rpm on full throttle - I'm not convinced the minuses are minus 11% fuel, I suspect its minus 11 widgets of adjustment over the mess BMW make. But I suspect 5 widgets = 1 jet size in the old world
I can now go down to 18 mph in 4th and its ok, the difference between 3k to 4k at low throttle is frankly ridiculous, yet the change to get it to run correctly is tiny
any thoughts on this...
I suspect the GS has adaptions on each different area of its multiple engine maps - thus if you wipe them you need a hot day, a cold day below 10C, low altitude and a mountain all inside the next 200 miles - could this be the reason resetting adaption goes wrong and makes it worse?
My bike since that BMW map update has been terrible in winter - it occurred to me, maybe be if its not ridden in cold weather its possible it never finds a healthy base to run from? I reset my addaption 4 times last year then found disconnecting the CAT sensors before 200 miles makes it run right (up till its cold weather). But if you leave the sensors on the bike it appears to just get muddled, but thinking as did it all in the summer, maybe with no baseline for winter work to run well from it gets confused ? so popped the CAT sensors back on this weekend and put a zero map on the bike PC3. Start up it was utterly horrible but soon got far better - rode about and it was running far better than it has for 4 years in cold weather - no longer super rich and chugging. 6 hrs when fully cold took it out again with ambient around 6C and started of running well
But then stopped waiting at some light and the idle was very low, very unstable and making nasty noises and nearly stalling. Everything else perfect but idle super odd. Gave it good clear out, got home idle still the same. Restarted an hour later and it seemed far happier - with a good idle ran through all gears on the side stand then idle went to utter rubbish again - odd ???
I suspect the GS has adaptions on each different area of its multiple engine maps - thus if you wipe them you need a hot day, a cold day below 10C, low altitude and a mountain all inside the next 200 miles - could this be the reason resetting adaption goes wrong and makes it worse?
My bike since that BMW map update has been terrible in winter - it occurred to me, maybe be if its not ridden in cold weather its possible it never finds a healthy base to run from? I reset my addaption 4 times last year then found disconnecting the CAT sensors before 200 miles makes it run right (up till its cold weather). But if you leave the sensors on the bike it appears to just get muddled, but thinking as did it all in the summer, maybe with no baseline for winter work to run well from it gets confused ? so popped the CAT sensors back on this weekend and put a zero map on the bike PC3. Start up it was utterly horrible but soon got far better - rode about and it was running far better than it has for 4 years in cold weather - no longer super rich and chugging. 6 hrs when fully cold took it out again with ambient around 6C and started of running well
But then stopped waiting at some light and the idle was very low, very unstable and making nasty noises and nearly stalling. Everything else perfect but idle super odd. Gave it good clear out, got home idle still the same. Restarted an hour later and it seemed far happier - with a good idle ran through all gears on the side stand then idle went to utter rubbish again - odd ???
i'm sorry ? if you are capable of modifying the stock map ....why do you need the PC3 ?
i work on Guzzi's , my punters ask ....PC ? do i need one ? me....no , lets get it running properly first.
i have taken PC's off of bikes because if the base line isn't set correctly ,no amount of fucking around, will get you where you want to be.
fuelling ...how do you know it is running rich or lean ? your brother, is not a gas analyser or is he.
i work on Guzzi's , my punters ask ....PC ? do i need one ? me....no , lets get it running properly first.
i have taken PC's off of bikes because if the base line isn't set correctly ,no amount of fucking around, will get you where you want to be.
fuelling ...how do you know it is running rich or lean ? your brother, is not a gas analyser or is he.
My bike ran like shit for years. I finally resolved its fuelling issues by doing the fuel filter bypass mod with an 8mm drill bit and an external filter for an 1150. Night and day transformation.
Why not try it, for the sake of removing the fuel pump/sender unit, drilling the housing then flushing out and refitting with a piece of hose, two jubilee clips and a £15 fuel filter you have little to lose and everything to gain.
Why not try it, for the sake of removing the fuel pump/sender unit, drilling the housing then flushing out and refitting with a piece of hose, two jubilee clips and a £15 fuel filter you have little to lose and everything to gain.
it had a new pump under warranty a few years back - now 4 or 5 I guess and about 10k miles I expect
I had the pump out 400 miles ago to try the float sensor tank level mod - it was spotless and like brand new inside, not a rust bucket of hell like some pics people here have posted
my question is when we wipe adaptions are we wiping 5 maps worth of adaptions (cold, normal, hot, low altitude, high altitude etc.).and when they give u a new bike, does it really come with a base line about right on all maps - but wiping gives nothing?
Starting up at +7C as bog std it almost couldn't run for 10 seconds then got better very fast - and on 2 rides that day (second was 5.5C) it ran both times like it used to before BMW's later engine Map - dealers loaded that and have been unable to get to run well ever since they did it. But whilst riding as std in cold temps - it was running well and now clearly not over rich pulling hard almost all the way in to the red in a lively manner - on the second ride, when I stopped it was the worst idle I have ever seen (much worse than when overheating on E10 fuel).. after that second trip, I started an hour later to see if something was wrong - it was all normal - no funny noises and smooth at idle - then 120 second or so in after going round the box and blipping the throttle a few times - idle went horrible again, like there is something very wrong (possibly related to the fact it seemed to be hunting trying to stall and 200 rpm too low)
As for my view on fuelling - You can tell a BM is running to factory, if it sounds harsh like you drained the oil and its got very crisp mid range running and must be in the right gear - its Std.
If its a JOKE dyno bodgers r us land, set rich as hell mess - its smooth as, everywhere, a little sluggish, but tolerates being in the wrong gear easily, but has far less throttle control (that many seem to like) and the oil gets dirty quick...
If you do it right its best of both - when BMW electronics aren't fighting u
I had the pump out 400 miles ago to try the float sensor tank level mod - it was spotless and like brand new inside, not a rust bucket of hell like some pics people here have posted
my question is when we wipe adaptions are we wiping 5 maps worth of adaptions (cold, normal, hot, low altitude, high altitude etc.).and when they give u a new bike, does it really come with a base line about right on all maps - but wiping gives nothing?
Starting up at +7C as bog std it almost couldn't run for 10 seconds then got better very fast - and on 2 rides that day (second was 5.5C) it ran both times like it used to before BMW's later engine Map - dealers loaded that and have been unable to get to run well ever since they did it. But whilst riding as std in cold temps - it was running well and now clearly not over rich pulling hard almost all the way in to the red in a lively manner - on the second ride, when I stopped it was the worst idle I have ever seen (much worse than when overheating on E10 fuel).. after that second trip, I started an hour later to see if something was wrong - it was all normal - no funny noises and smooth at idle - then 120 second or so in after going round the box and blipping the throttle a few times - idle went horrible again, like there is something very wrong (possibly related to the fact it seemed to be hunting trying to stall and 200 rpm too low)
As for my view on fuelling - You can tell a BM is running to factory, if it sounds harsh like you drained the oil and its got very crisp mid range running and must be in the right gear - its Std.
If its a JOKE dyno bodgers r us land, set rich as hell mess - its smooth as, everywhere, a little sluggish, but tolerates being in the wrong gear easily, but has far less throttle control (that many seem to like) and the oil gets dirty quick...
If you do it right its best of both - when BMW electronics aren't fighting u
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