VX800 and a GS with a booster plug

well....

the bike is running horrendously at idle - mate with his Morgan carbtune moved away - so just got my own. As I waited for this to turn up an nasty experience on my car just made me realise it all down to the junk Esso are putting in the forecourts near me
so when I got the kit to balance the throttle bodies I guessed I didn't' need to and that JUST how it turned out...

Today it stalled twice idling at junctions - another time it drops so low you get noises you never wanted to hear - reading Mistacat on another thread

Mistacat said:

Before I am corrected on the AFR of E10 fuel, I appreciate that the stoichiometric of E10 is 14.3 to 1 , the op`s bike is a TC and recommended to run on E5 98 octane.

Click to expand...

makes you think they should do a new map and or diff cat sensors - but of course they rather sell a new bike

as for ASR had a strange experience here - always ONLY wanted traction control to start life in Sport - but BMW's efforts always start out in children's mode, then Sport, then OFF - I have been unable to configure things differently using motoscan. The bike should be 100% standard on its software configuration - but now something odd has happened

Related to the fuel strip fun and not being able to make my ZFE basic work the float - I've been struggling to believe the pinouts exist in the ZFE alongside half the programming, but then the last little bit to make it function is AWOL. Seems the guys at GS911 were in the same place. And they have further refined how they implement the swap from Strip to Float - and indeed its out of beta support and exists in both the phone app and the PC front end now. (But doesn't work on anything other than twin socket ZFE high control units). I suspect it could work on the single socket ZFE units but BM left a line of code on the cutting room floor because they are idiots. More of less confirmed where Motoscan say BMW has 7 different ZFE modules and each of the variants can have different codings and software versions.

As I was trying the later dev of the GS911 tool to swap to a float (unsuccessfully), I was playing mix and match on the two sets of wires to the ZFE - and then re-instigated the resistor trick to stop the cluster nagging light and message flashing, and show a full tank of fuel regardless. In my head (and possibly in reality) I don't see how to code back the other way with the GS911 tool - but wasn't worried as the Motoscan tool copes. Hence I used the Motoscan app to swap back to the Strip sensor.

I swapped back and thought nothing of things (as done it 5 or 6 times with either tool previously) - but then the other day I realised my traction control wasn't giving me the enabled symbol as I was going down the road - toggling the switch I have it OFF, then Sport, then Moped mode. How? no idea but it wasn't a miss press by me. Now the bike has muddled itself and starts up with ASR turned off - which is a massive bonus as moped mode is offensive every ride - but I'd like to know how its managed it ???

I have just ploughed through all 6 pages of this thread for the first time. The question that pops into my head is why? BMW have installed a fuelling map. OK, it is far from perfect, but then you fit a PC and you can’t get it the way you want. So then, you go and fit a Boosterplug and so it goes on. And I think that is where your problems are. Yes, fit a PC or a Boosterplug, but not both for gods sake! The Boosterplug simply adds fuel, fine, so why use a PC to try and alter the stock map AND the Boosterplug ? Just use one or the other, but not both together! And you do this without putting the bike on a dyno! The poor bike must be turning itself inside out to try and just fire up when you press the button!

the fuelling of the 2004 to 2007 GS is a disgusting mess - if you believe this is safe or indeed a pleasant way to ride - you are a novice rider at huge risk
and now with E10 being the standard UK fuel available (the bike was never designed to operate with) it is an even bigger issue

My bike was a shocking disaster on the map it was sold with - inside 6 months they released a later map (third revision from that used at build in the factory - clearly indicating they had issues) this is still the last official release for these bikes

The normal way to update BMW software is to flash all modules in one combined session - the later "i-level" software update gives multiple updates to the alarm/TPMS module, the ZFE (central chassis electronics), the instrument cluster and the Engine ECU

the other modules I was happy to have as a bonus (the later software update removed BUGS in the side stand switch logic, the TMPS and the Trip computer displays, but I was keenly looking forward to two cures as the later Engine Map was supposed to FIX Engine Knock - that my bike suffered with and improve idle stability (they all suffer with) ) and do something to cold start, I presumed would be a good thing.

During in the first year I had it, the dealer lied and told me there was NO such thing as a BMW engine Map update (which was 6 months after the later software had been released) - so I bought a PC3 and mostly had the original from Sale engine running bugs resolved (aside from slight knock under heavy abuse at 6200 rpm). If you got everything from the earlier pages - you'll have seen the Engine knock issue became unacceptable when I reverted to std gearing with the new tyre sizes that came out when the LC bikes were released... I was going to go water meth injection to cure this using an extension of the PC3s ability - when I was told about puma special support by a renowned BMW car remapping expert - he said start there....and that's when 10 years after Sale I discovered there had always been a later engine map. But as soon as I got the current release engine Map the bike has been a pile of junk - its is FAR worse than the map I had at Sale and seemingly unfixable

The last few pages of disastrous running appear to mostly be the junk fuel when we added more ethanol crap to UK fuels in September 2021 - I had not appreciated the effects as I was supposed to be on ESSO E0 99 octane

I just tried BP 97 but its not really helped

bought a set of as new, very cheap throttle bodies - came with injectors, idle stepper motors, and TPS with almost no miles the other day

last night using an old plug with tails so I can get decent readings - compared the old 36k mile switch to the 5k mile one (genuine BMW parts both with the same part numbers - only diff elsewhere on the body was a 2 on the original, and a 1 on the lower mileage one)

there is a difference at closed throttle (or the other pin ON full throttle) at 20k ohm setting - 1.48 original vs lower miles 1.38

on the PC3s version of events that's

closed 6416 and 100% open 27144 (original sensor)

closed 6336 and 100% open 26568 (lower mileage sensor)

calibrated the PC3 to new values and went for a ride... it does seems less stupid, not transformed, but less on off at low RPMs (more like the map made some sense), will try to get fuelling better and see where it ends up

this doc is odd https://www.r1200gs.info/threads/re...althy-tps-unit.49975/#lg=thread-49975&slide=0 why would I care what it is on the bench ? the settings I care about are when on the bike with closed or 100% open

so following the PDF the original TPS on the bike was

at 200k ohms

fully clockwise
Pins - Std - mine
1 & 2 - 5.30 - 0.47
1 & 3 - 4.40 - 3.90
2 & 3 - 0.70 - 0.90

fully anti-clock
Pins
1 & 2 - 0.90 - 0.90
1 & 3 - 0.90 - 3.90
2 & 3 - 1.50 - 0.47

It was definitely running much better - so much so, after getting it about right with the PC3 - I decided to try a zero map and then reconnect the CAT sensors.

With 11 to 13C ambient temps and three short runs - idle has steadied a lot and running quite well, dead bit at 5k rpm you could live with, going through the gears after 6k gets air in third (hasn't managed this for 4 years) then focused on Slow speeds and its a basket case (but could well be std mess between 1500 to 2000 rpm). But elsewhere its clearly running the best it ever has on this MAP (in stock set up)

Which brings us to just how incompetent is BMW across the board ?

1) How come the TPS was perfectly OK on the OLD MAP but instantly broken on the later MAP (do we have fiddly light fingers or just blatant crooks at dealerships ?)
2) the bike has been in three times at main dealerships for not running correctly on this MAP, yet no work done or faults found
3) how on earth do they not have diagnostics built-in for the TPS performance (it must be one of the most basic things going)
4) if they can't manage that, like we had at Jag 40 years ago, why not have a plug in tester that has red and green display to say its working and set up correctly ? and then use it !!!
5) why didn't they try and or suggest I try a TPS sensor?
6) when the big boys at PuMa got involved why wasn't this the first thing they suggested ?


what are the usual symptoms for a dodgy TPS sensor ?

The TPS is a 43K ohm potentiometer on a 5 v circuit, Therefore it is difficult to test for dirt on the track or wiper.
Cracks in the track or damaged wiper along with total failure are easy to test.
The GS911 will read 0 to 100.01 % so twist the throttle slowly through its full movement and look for irregularities.
A dirty potentiometer is easy to spot on an audio amplifier ( we have all heard the scratchy crackle on a volume control on an old device) imagine what that would do to a signal to an ecu.
I would regard the TPS sensor as a service item as the Hella replacements are not expensive and considering the amount of operations that they go thro over say 30k miles is quite extensive.

Mistacat said:

The TPS is a 43K ohm potentiometer on a 5 v circuit, Therefore it is difficult to test for dirt on the track or wiper.
Cracks in the track or damaged wiper along with total failure are easy to test.
The GS911 will read 0 to 100.01 % so twist the throttle slowly through its full movement and look for irregularities.
A dirty potentiometer is easy to spot on an audio amplifier ( we have all heard the scratchy crackle on a volume control on an old device) imagine what that would do to a signal to an ecu.
I would regard the TPS sensor as a service item as the Hella replacements are not expensive and considering the amount of operations that they go thro over say 30k miles is quite extensive.

Click to expand...

thanks for the reply

now u mention the GS911 bit - very sure I tried that and it showed as ok
and the PC3 can be calibrated so it knows 0% and 100% and that always worked ok

but the bike is quite different on the lower mileage TPS - as its so easy to fit anyone with a glitch could just pop one on and see if its happier - I hope the mad adaption bit doesn't come back in to play as its running well

the pins 1 and pins 3 resistance check is way different if that spec list is correct

standard = 0.90
mine = 3.90
lower mileage sensor = 4.00

(at 200k ohm setting) - so the numbers in this table don't sound right

https://www.r1200gs.info/threads/re...althy-tps-unit.49975/#lg=thread-49975&slide=0

INTERESTING PART NUMBER INFO (bold is the two sensors I have)

04 Throttle valve switch 4 KOHM 13547696412 $175.46 12/2015 ENDED, +core
04 Throttle valve switch 13548406249

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/en/show...W-R_1200_GS_Adve_06_0382,0397_&diagId=13_1116

must be time to ramble on with another chapter ...


I've been running the bike dead stock for 3 months - but with that replacement TPS in play and the cycle of running and then deteriorating badly over the next few hundred miles has stopped.
So I thought lets leave it and see if it settles, adapting as designed with a TPS that's not throwing odd lies in the mix, as that seem to have been what's confused it over and over.

And yes is now consistent - consistently terrible. How owners think this safe or indeed reasonable is incredible. My 2017 KTM is much the same part throttle round town and its a recalcitrant bitch - and that's had 3 map updates none making that dangerous behaviour any better.

Over the last few weeks on the GS, I've been mostly doing the same trip back and forth in traffic - and that has opened my eyes - you realise every trip its the same road sections you have to ride around so many foibles its no fun being on the bike at all. So time to rip off with those CAT sensors on with the PC3 and its playtime again.

The really strange point is the fuelling corrections I came up with when I had the gibberish TPS, are the same as I now need - so it seems that TPS, was what sent the adaptions in a tail spin but wasn't impacting base fuelling need.

However whilst nearly all of the benefits the PC3 are bringing appear to be subtle little tweaks, the overall impact in how the bike behaves in day to day running is just incredible. On the same route, I'm still finding myself tense up for the fight at particular sections of the trip, and then I'm noticing myself subconsciously starting to make the very same adjustments to my riding style, gear change points and throttle position I had to make on the stock bike to stay alive - but these are now totally unnecessary when the engine gets enough fuel to actually run correctly.

They way the bike behaves now makes it so much nicer to be on. You can be far lazier, more relaxed, and shift 25% of your energy to focus on riding better - rather than a huge part of your mental capacity being wasted managing a constant fight of stupid intervention trying to stop the bike falling on the floor

Had a eureka moment yesterday - thought I'd review some of Dynojet's example maps in case I was missing anything. Suddenly noticed mods I need for the later BMW map now start to match one of their example maps. I'd been having problems coming unstuck low down where I can tell it needs big differences between cylinders but I can't understand which it is. One bit improves and another goes the wrong way and the bike seems to morph randomly rich to weak in 100rpm steps then a smidge of throttle and it reverses the effect.

Its worth remembering most Dynojet example maps for the PC3 on this fitment are clearly jokes only meant to lead you astray and book that dyno session - However, now I've basically worked out what's so horribly wrong from the manufacturer's mess, reviewing M936-510.djm it looks like its a real map adjustment layer - done by someone competent. I could believe this guy understood how a bike should run and likely used a dyno well, putting in a lot of effort. Its very close to what I have - but in a significant number of places he has these radical swings - totally out of sync with the general theme. And thus maybe its an insight of the ridiculous mess BMW created?

This guys example map one minute needs -10 widgets, but 250 rpm later +12, and then with massive swings between cylinders of 8 widgets in what looks like a haphazard back and forth mess. Yet in other areas there's consistency and full alignment between cylinders. If you can now find where they hide these example maps please take a look. Surely no one normal could believe what appears to be a haphazard piece of insanity is anything but the work of a complete lunatic - but when I put in a few of the radical swings in my work - low and behold its coming together in ways the bike has never run on part throttle below 4k rpm. And I'm talking riding the same bike over 12 years and 30k miles. And another element, as I've mentioned previously revving out through 4 to 6k rpm on 80 / 100% throttle, he too is winding back from signifiant over enrichment that drowns the stock bike massively killing power.

All of which points to what is so very wrong with the stock engine map - is its just a random shambles of interventions to mange emissions - BMW clearly don't care how badly it runs - nor how dangerously it make it to ride - and then added what looks to be some stupid inbuilt traction control (which I kept eluding to in previous points) by flooding the engine at a point where full throttle emissions aren't measured

and if you step back without bias - clearly it was just apathy by BMW - as this engine is only euro 3 (as were the last air-cooled TC GS models) and with basically nothing different, they now have the R-ninety with nothing special in the mix - landing a better running euro 5 emission standard

well.....

I have ridden two low mileage twin cams in the last two days - (quite strangely its been more than 10 years since I last rode a TC) and all I can say is the fueling on these is radically transformed in to something sensible - both were like a rolls royce that's just been serviced, the refinement increase is frankly unbelievable - makes even the LC feel like a cement mixer full bolts

I just noticed esso 99 isn't helping as much as I thought - I've been playing with a fuel addative that on some vehicles had really radical postive effects. And now find the bike semms happier on E5 97 octane - and its a much more affordable balance. But the real win came with a bit of dipetane to really make it happy https://dipetane.com/ this stuff is magic, put it in things that don't like E10 and it transforms them in spectacular ways - her 1.6 NA petrol 57 plate ford focus immediately transforms as soon as it lands in the tank, from hesitant, coughing, gutless mess into driving like its different vehicle - much nippier, huge leaps in throttle response, lots more power, 4 mpg improvement - runs like a little gem.

my hexhead has had moments of perfection running standard, now that the adaptions have settled with the new TPS (much of the massive dip around 5k had gone) - and its even happier with dipetane in there - however at times it reverts to recalcitrant pig on low speed stuff - seems very temperature related - I did a half a tank with Esso E10 95 and dipteane all round Aylesbury back lanes and it was back to its old self (like it had been on the first map with the PC3 doing its bit). Then I got BP97 and it seemed even better. But the next day it was disgusting, struggling to run OK as it warmed up- Till the weather warmed up and it was all normal again.

I have noticed all along since the later map went on - its like it runs a halfway sensible map if >22C but RANDOMLY between 12C and 22C its luck of the draw if it behaves or plays silly buggers, then leave it parked for 20 mins and its usually happy again ?????????