eMTB versus CX

The Other PaulG · Sep 28, 2020

Now this was fun....

A good old mate came around at the weekend with his £5k Whyte eMTB and we went out for a blast.

I was on my Colnago World Cup cycle cross bike so we thought we should find out how they compare.

The route was 21km of mixed forest paths, cinder tracks, loose stony climbs, root-strewn technical sections plus about 2km of Tarmac. Neither of us really knew how it would pan out so it was interesting to see.

Overall, we were in fact really evenly matched. On the loose climbs the eMTB pulled away relatively easily. Also in the most technical bits, the full suspension of the Whyte was a big advantage over the zero suspension of the CX.

However, on the cinder tracks, the towpath and the tarmac, the MTB was hobbled by its speed restrictor so by really putting the hammer down the CX was able to pull out a lead.

Absolutely brilliant fun, if you get the chance to carry out a similar experiment, go for it! And please report back :beerjug:

Deleted account 220319001 · Sep 28, 2020

emtb YT channel did a video of this very thing (sorry can't be arsed searching for it) but yes was interesting.

Actually, scratch that bit about not being arsed searching for the vid, here it is here...

fs996 · Sep 29, 2020

I don't get the hype about gravel bikes. You can't convince me that a narrow tyred, rigid, drop-bar bike is the best tool for off road. Personally, I ride for fun, not minutes and seconds, and on the routes I ride a suspension eMTB is huge fun.

Walowiz · Sep 29, 2020

gravel bikes, I have one - its great for what it does, would I use it off-road in places I take the Full susser ? not a bloody chance. The tyres are too skinny, the knobbles on them are useless off-road. A very skittish ride off-road and you seem to be constantly in the wrong position for mtb'ing. Mine is used for very light XC, road riding and fire roads - that kind of thing. Road bikes with disc brakes.

As to a test between a eBike and an analogue FS, did this last week with a mate who has just bought a Spesh SL Vado. So off we went to Richmond Park, one Spesh eBike Vado, one Scott Genius 710 - running 2.8" tyres, all setup for mtbing and not a whole lot of use anywhere else. All measurements taken by Garmin watches and data comparison by Strava.

On the hills I let my mate get a long head start on my Scott and I wound the assist to max on his Vado, result was I overtook him with ease, and was quicker by 1.5+ mph every time (that is over his PB on Strava, not just that run), but what was really interesting was, I was literally not breaking a sweat, my HR was 45 less than my mates !! it's amazing how you can power up hills using the turbo assist. Just hilarious, nothing like it. I'm sure its been said before - but on a eBike the hills just disappear.

Where its less important is on the flat, after the assist stops at 20 kmh and on the downs where it's loose wet gravel etc, his Vado was interesting there - one second away from crashing at every point. My Genius just blatted straight through all of that.

Would I buy an eGravel bike - no, eHT maybe as I can see the use case - esp for commuting - depending on how much travel they come with, eFS unlikely at the moment, just too narrowly focused.

Obviously this was a completely scientific test and should be taken literally.

The Other PaulG · Sep 29, 2020

Cabby said:
emtb YT channel did a video of this very thing (sorry can't be arsed searching for it) but yes was interesting.

Actually, scratch that bit about not being arsed searching for the vid, here it is here...

Thanks for that - it's interesting that their conclusions were so similar to those that my mate and I experienced. And most importantly, we had an equal amount of fun finding out!

The Other PaulG · Sep 29, 2020

fs996 said:
I don't get the hype about gravel bikes. You can't convince me that a narrow tyred, rigid, drop-bar bike is the best tool for off road. Personally, I ride for fun, not minutes and seconds, and on the routes I ride a suspension eMTB is huge fun.

We're all different, and part of the reason I ride is for the challenge. I take enormous pleasure in asking MTB riders to move aside so I can pass them on the gnarly bits - that probably just indicates my defective personality, but there we are.

Yes a gravel bike's less capable than a dedicated MTB on the rough stuff - I certainly won't try to convince you otherwise - you can measure it numerous ways and the gravel (CX) bike will almost always come second. But on the bits where you'd expect the gravel bike to lose out, they're sometimes not as far behind as you might imagine.

I own both, by the way, as well as classic steel road bikes so I don't have a particular axe to grind.

Davey B · Sep 29, 2020

Before gravel bikes were a thing, I regularly rode off road on a Cannondale CX bike. It took a totally different mindset to ride the same 'sections' as on a full suspension MTB and really mixed up my riding in a good way. I've not ridden an e-MTB yet but my thoughts on them have done a u-turn from 'cheating' when they'd sail past you on Mt Ventoux, to 'Brilliant' when you can get out and ride twice as far, not using any assistance if you don't want but it's there if needed/wanted.

The Other PaulG · Sep 29, 2020

Davey B said:
I've not ridden an e-MTB yet but my thoughts on them have done a u-turn from 'cheating' when they'd sail past you on Mt Ventoux, to 'Brilliant' when you can get out and ride twice as far, not using any assistance if you don't want but it's there if needed/wanted.

Absolutely. The 'show us your e-bike' thread is full of stories of people whose cycling has had a remarkable rebirth through buying an e-bike. And that must be a good thing.

I am hoping that one day an e-bike will extend my own enjoyment of cycling, too.

fs996 · Sep 30, 2020

The Other PaulG said:
Absolutely. The 'show us your e-bike' thread is full of stories of people whose cycling has had a remarkable rebirth through buying an e-bike. And that must be a good thing.

I count myself amongst those folk too.

There's a perception amongst some that ebikes are the retirement home of cycling, and whilst they are great for older folk they are good fun for anyone, any age. I'm 47 and have gone from never bothering with my mountain bike to doing 400 miles since August when my Haibike arrived. I love the fact that they will take on mental climbs that would be impossible for most mortals, and that I can go for a ride in areas where it would be an absolute slog on a regular MTB. I like off roading but most of the off road near me is very hilly, and honestly I just don't have the energy for that on the MTB most of the time. The ebike has helped me get fitter but I can arrive at the top of steep hills in my area without having to take a 5 minute break. My advice is to try one if you get the chance.

Now, if I had 40 miles of fire track nearby I can see how a gravel bike might make sense. What I don't understand is the huge push behind gravel bikes from the main manufacturers when they seem to fit a very small niche.

Davey B · Sep 30, 2020

fs996 said:
Now, if I had 40 miles of fire track nearby I can see how a gravel bike might make sense. What I don't understand is the huge push behind gravel bikes from the main manufacturers when they seem to fit a very small niche.

Sales...pure and simple I think. Loads of cyclists are the n+1 type who have a bike for every type of riding they can imagine and there's always 1 more to be bought...... whereas in reality 1 bike and a spare pair of wheels, or 2 bikes would do. Race bike - tick, Hardtail - tick, Full sus - tick, Audax/fast road - tick, Gravel/CX - tick.

(RIP) spike418 · Sep 30, 2020

fs996 said:
I love the fact that they will take on mental climbs that would be impossible for most mortals, and that I can go for a ride in areas where it would be an absolute slog on a regular MTB.

Chatting to a neighbour last week who'd borrowed an ebike to possibly buy it. He has a normal 90 minute circuit that covers a lot of the local hills, but on the ebike he can get to places not normally accessible on the analogue pushbike.

Apparently Chris Hoy was asked for his opinion and he replied "anything that get's people out and using their legs is good".

Deleted account 220319001 · Sep 30, 2020

I'm getting one cause there is just no way I would do the stuff I've done before yet want to and discover more, considering a Munro at the weekend.

The Other PaulG · Sep 30, 2020

Davey B said:
whereas in reality 1 bike and a spare pair of wheels, or 2 bikes would do. .

Absolutely bang on.

I used to have a decent carbon road bike, then I bought a reasonable CX bike too. After very little time I sold both and bought a better CX bike, with second set of wheels off e-bay.

It would take a far better cyclist than myself to believe that the slightly different geometry of the CX was limiting my ability on the road.

By the way, when counting bikes, the old steel ones don't count (darling...) honest.... I pick them up, improve them, sell them on then find the next one. I don't own them, I foster them... it's different

Greenman14 · Sep 30, 2020

I sold my MTB as I wasn’t using it much and can’t get my head around sticking the bike in the car to drive for an hour to get to a decent trail. So I bought a CX to use as a winter road bike (it has fittings for mudguards) and for the occasional gravel trail. It works for me, though I wouldn’t want to tackle a steep off road technical descent on it. As a bonus I could try my hand at cyclocross!

Udders · Oct 2, 2020

Davey B said:
Sales...pure and simple I think. Loads of cyclists are the n+1 type who have a bike for every type of riding they can imagine and there's always 1 more to be bought...... whereas in reality 1 bike and a spare pair of wheels, or 2 bikes would do. Race bike - tick, Hardtail - tick, Full sus - tick, Audax/fast road - tick, Gravel/CX - tick.

I have a derestricted emtb. My “comfortable” speed for fire tracks and some tarmac is 18-20mph. That would be out of the power assist range for a normal emtb. After a few months of ownership I got my local bike shop to make me some quick change road wheels. They make a massive difference if I’m on tarmac. It makes the bike so much easier and smoother to ride. Especially if you lock out the rear suspension.
Also had a road biased cassette on too.

Deleted account 220319001 · Oct 2, 2020

I think I need to ditch the tyres mine came with, they are absolute beasts, proper Mountain bike tyres, they are bloody massive.

Udders · Oct 2, 2020

Cabby said:
I think I need to ditch the tyres mine came with, they are absolute beasts, proper Mountain bike tyres, they are bloody massive.

Go tubeless at the same time if you haven’t already. :thumb2

Deleted account 220319001 · Oct 2, 2020

Udders said:
Go tubeless at the same time if you haven’t already.

Aye that's the plan, need to buy the valves and sealant.

Walowiz · Oct 2, 2020

Cabby said:
I think I need to ditch the tyres mine came with, they are absolute beasts, proper Mountain bike tyres, they are bloody massive.

You did realise you bought a proper mtb

, go tubeless and drop the pressures down to 18 psi or so, big volume tubeless mtb tyres are a revelation off road.

Deleted account 220319001 · Oct 2, 2020

Indeed I did realise I'd bought a proper mtb

though these are the biggest tyres I've ever had on a bike, biggest before was Hans Damph but this has Magic Mary on the front and Big Betty on the back, I'm used to Nobby Nic's.

I've never ridden with low pressures like you suggest so once I get the stuff will give it a pop but suspect come next year they'd have to go up if I intend on doing proper Mountains like we have up here.

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