Review of different phone apps and Garmin devices

I think you may well be right.

Locus seems to be popular and pretty powerful, though as a non-Android user, I guess it’s not much use to me.

Good reviews. Keep it up :thumb2 :beerjug:
 
Non-exhaustive list of navigation apps for your phone or tablet

Split, very roughly, into 2 camps - the adventure/overlander typewhich copes with tracks and unpaved roads, and road based travel, post up if I've put these in the wrong place. There's overlap, so e.g. you can navigate a road route and a-b with Locus but it's so fearfully complicated you'd never use it if that was your only requirement.

Adventure
Locus
OsmAnd
Viewranger
Gaia GPS
Guru Maps
Alpinequest
Pocket Earth
iOverlander
- not navigation but a database of waypoints including campsites, hotels, fuel, bike dealers, etc.
Wikilocs
Again not navigation, but a database of downloadable GPX files categorised by activity, including dual sport and enduro motorcycling.
Furkot
A trip planner, really - you'll still need a navigation app or GPS

Road
Waze
Kurviger/Scenic
My Route
Co Pilot
Apple Maps/Google Maps
TomTom Go
 
It’s a shame that ViaMichelin never properly developed their app. When it was first launched the app had an option to create a GPX file, transferable to a Garmin device. It’s only fault? Was that it didn’t work. All it ever sent was the start and end point.

MyRoute now has an option to include Michelin maps as an overlay, so can be used to create routes.... for those that want to follow the ‘must do’ green lined roads. Along with Pocket Earth, I use it, not for route creation, but to display routes for bods on the forum, using my iPad. For bespoke route creation? The ever versatile BaseCamp, which came free with my GPS device.

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I see that MyMap (I don’t look at it very often) has fixed one of its previous glitches, via a ‘beta’ GPX export version:

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The GPX files MyMap creates are certainly pretty good and they shift across OK into Pocket Earth Pro, too....

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All done on an iPad. If I was really stuck, my Garmin GPS having failed and I had no map, paper and pencil, I’d use it on my iPhone.
 
Berlin, a useful question to ask, would be:

How many people create their own bespoke routes, instead of just asking the software / their phone / gps device to, “Give me a route A to B, avoiding motorways, twisties only” and just accept what it spits out? I would imagine it’s a sizeable proportion, the majority even, who do the latter.
 
Just had a look at Locus.
You get a free map for 3 areas and then have to buy extra area maps or different types of maps with what they call Locoins.
I lost the will to look any further when I was sent around in circles by the web site and there was no a definitive answer as to cost.
I simply cannot be bothered faffing around with a pseudo (non) currency not matter how good the rest of product is.
Making usable routes is difficult enough and a website that is as hard as that to get a basic cost answer from is not attractive to me.
 
4) Garmin XT
Fulfils 1) and 2) above
I don't have one, so comments from owners welcome. As far as I can see, it runs City Navigator and OSM maps, but not GB OS maps. It doesn't work with Gamin ANT devices, but has a good screen and after a few oddities in navigation for the first few firmware releases seems to have settled down. Again, could be used for off road, I think, if the right maps were installed.

I have an XT.
It is my 4th Garmin after a 550, 660 and 396 and it is a very good improvement on the all (of course).

I use it in conjunction with BaseCamp, after I spent some time learning how basecamp works as - we all know - it is not exactly logic most times. Once you know your way around, all is good.

I use the XT on the road with its base cartography, both CityNavigator and the provided Topo maps.
Offroad, as explained in other threads, I use the XT using OSM Based Maps (bought from The Thorns) and keep my offroad route marked on screen as a track.
These maps are non routable. So, I tend to follow the track offroad and on connecting road bits, then switch back to the standard maps at the end of the day to get back home.

Works (for me) really well.
I never used it for free navigation, as in waypoint to waypoint using the compass. Yet.

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These are the maps offroad on the 396, but pretty much the same on the XT.

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The XT very big and to use on my smaller greenlaning bike I bough an used GPSMap 60csx for 50 quid and bought TalkieToasters UK topo maps. Because of Covid I had zero chance to try them yet.
I did manage to quickly try road routing on the TT map (those are sold as non routable for driving) and they do work more or less.
I'd need routing at the end of the day just to get a general direction towards London/Home.


We discussed about it here: https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/543662-Cheapo-Garmin-GPS-for-trail-riding
 
To get back to this.

I’ve now had a decent play with ViewRanger.

I would say this is not really a bike navigation app, it’s really a rambling app, but it is used by many for trail riding as it has fairly cheap access to OS maps, I think the subs are £25 per year. Has both an iOS and an Android app.

There’s no a to b routing, though if you ask to navigate to the start of a route it fires up Google Maps to take care of that.

Other than that, you follow a route that you have either created on the app, created by converting a track you have in the app to a route, created on the on line only ViewRanger portal, or have imported from an imported gpx, maybe created in Basecamp.

Routes and tracks can be imported direct on the device, for example if someone sends you a gpx file in an email, or if you download a route from a website.

The interface is fairly easy, but not very flexible in that you can’t for example choose what data fields are shown, but it does track up, north up, choose screen orientation etc.

You can build a library of routes and tracks (note you can’t navigate a track, only a route, but you could show a track on the screen and navigate that

Other points to note, if you want offline maps you have to download them one 60mb tile at a time, so for the whole of the UK that takes hours, and you can’t just go away and leave it, so that’s a pain.

It also has some European and other maps to buy, but coverage isn’t great.

Also, ViewRanger have been taken over by Outdoor Active, a German company who are much more focused on rambly, walking type activities. Whilst Viewranger did have an activity selection for adventure riding and Outdoor Active don’t. I don’t know how long the Viewranger app will be maintained once the assimilation is complete.

All in all a good app for green lanes, no use for the road, not as good as my Montana but cheap if you already have a phone you don’t mind using on your dirt bike.
 
A few more thoughts on ViewRanger.

Drawing a route on the device is actually quite easy as it follows the line of the track on the map, if there is one, even the byways etc. whereas BaseCamp just creates a direct line between two points if you are drawing a track. You can also create routes on the ViewRanger website, but an internet connection is required.
I also think you can only use maps from the ViewRanger store (and this is currently being transferred to Outdooractive) so you can’t add for example OSM maps.


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Split, very roughly, into 2 camps - the adventure/overlander typewhich copes with tracks and unpaved roads, and road based travel, post up if I've put these in the wrong place. There's overlap, so e.g. you can navigate a road route and a-b with Locus but it's so fearfully complicated you'd never use it if that was your only requirement.

Adventure
Locus
OsmAnd
Viewranger
Gaia GPS
Guru Maps
Alpinequest
Pocket Earth
iOverlander
- not navigation but a database of waypoints including campsites, hotels, fuel, bike dealers, etc.
Wikilocs
Again not navigation, but a database of downloadable GPX files categorised by activity, including dual sport and enduro motorcycling.
Furkot
A trip planner, really - you'll still need a navigation app or GPS

Road
Waze
Kurviger/Scenic
My Route
Co Pilot
Apple Maps/Google Maps
TomTom Go

Adding to this Maps.me, favourite of Itchy Boots. Downloaded it but not checked it out yet


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One size never fits all, so I thought it might help to note in one place some of the many navigation options we have now and what they would be used for. I don't know much about non Garmin devices so I'm keeping my comments to Garmin devices and Android and IOS apps and as yet I've yet to really use the apps in anger but have done some research.

The use cases I can see are as follows:

1) A to B routing
Put in a destination and sometimes a start point, make some selections about type of route such as fastest, avoid motorways, etc, and off you go with voice and turn by turn directions

2) Follow a pre-planned road route
You know exactly which roads you want to take and have planned a route somewhere, on Basecamp, or Via Michelin etc, and loaded them to your device, found them on the device and pressed go - off you go, again with voice and turn by turn.

3) Follow a pre planned route with unsurfaced trail or off road sections
For off road, since there's no auto routing, this usually means following a track that you've downloaded, as in from the TET website or elsewhere, scrounged off mates or authored yourself on some kind of software, then loaded and followed as in 2, but no turn by turn directions - just follow the line on the map.

Software

Basecamp
Love it or hate it, it's a good tool for authoring routes (on the road) or tracks for trails, works with both Garmin maps and OSM and other free maps, lots of tools available for this if you want to bother. Good for planning routes, multi day routes, quite a nice library function and the easier way to get tracks or routes to your Garmin device. It has point and click routing, route shaping with the mouse and also track drawing

Kurviger
Seems pretty good for on road route planning, lots of options for how you'd like your route to look, you can import routes and export routes and it works with it's own app on Android and age Scenic app on IOS. There are paid and free versions. As far as I can see, though, you can't use it to draw a route or a track, so you have to rely on it's own route calculation algorithms and it wouldn't therefore be usable for a trip with unpaved/offroad sections - though I stand to be corrected. You could use it to generate a route which than then be loaded up into a Garmin or another device or app.

Via Michelin
Unsurprisingly good for finding hotels and restaurants along the route, but it's an A-B planner, with ability to choose preferences for type of road, tolls or no tolls, etc. Again, I don't think any ability to drag to shape a route to get what you want exactly, or to draw a track. Still a good resource for trip planning, as it will calculate costs including fuel and tolls. Disappointingly, it uses Booking.com as a hotel booking engine


Most of the other software seems to be linked to an app, so maybe cover it there.

Here's a one liner on some of the Garmin devices.

1) Garmin Montana 6xx series

These fulfil 1) 2) and 3) above
Initially the 600 and 650, with 650 having a camera and a "t" suffix meaning Topo maps were loaded, and now replaced by the 610/680 series.

They have the capability to run Garmin City Navigator maps as well as the Garmin branded UK OS maps, previously GB Discover now Topo Great Britain Pro and so are great for trail riders, being also remarkably tough. One of the most useful things about these devices is the Profile capability, which allows you to choose a set of parameters for whatever you are doing and switch easily between them - for instance I have one for trail riding in the UK, which switches on the OS maps and a few other bits, a Road Bike UK, and a Van mode for where its (unsurprisingly) in the van. They can handle tracks and routes easily, and lots of flexibility around the number of points, track visibility, etc. To load routes and tracks, the easiest way is BaseCamp, but also you can just drag and drop with a file manager but really a PC of some sort is needed although there are a few daffy workarounds. Data can also be shared with other Montana 6xx.

They have a relatively inexpensive powered mount, but decent battery life too and will work on AA batteries, and they work with ANTS devices, like the Garmin Tempe and tyre pressure monitors.

Weak points are the screen is a bit small for these days and also not the brightest, but I've no doubt it will stay on my 350EXC for a good while yet.

2) Garmin Zumo
Fulfils 1) and 2) above
I have a 590 and 595. They are good road devices, screen is a decent size but can be hard to read in sunlight, come with Lifetime City Navigator Maps, can play music from and SD cars or Spotify, have a curvy roads setting (which mostly takes you via every housing estate in the land), good search, route tracking, search along route etc.
You can again add other open source maps, but not the GB OS maps, so they could in fact be used for off road outside the UK, if you get the right maps. The battery life is usually not very good.
Again work best with Basecamp.
I'll be replacing these shortly, I think.

3) Garmin GPS Map 276cx
Fulfils 1), 2) and 3) above
This is quite a big unit, great battery life, uses the same powered mount as the Montana 6xx. Great screen, very clear and bright - probably even better than the new XT and Montana 7xx devices. It's not a touch screen and uses a rocker wheel and buttons, which is good for not getting the screen dirty. Runs any kind of maps and has stacks of features so the learning curve is quite steep. It would be a perfect dual sport unit if it wasn't let down by a slow processor which can mean some lag with complex maps like the OS series. Still my favourite, though.


4) Garmin XT
Fulfils 1) and 2) above
I don't have one, so comments from owners welcome. As far as I can see, it runs City Navigator and OSM maps, but not GB OS maps. It doesn't work with Gamin ANT devices, but has a good screen and after a few oddities in navigation for the first few firmware releases seems to have settled down. Again, could be used for off road, I think, if the right maps were installed.


5) Garmin Montana 7xx series
Fulfils 1), 2) and 3) above
Again, I don't have one but have spent some time looking at one. Quite big, good screen, the 700i and 750i also have Satellite Messenger capability, think of it has having an inbuilt Garmin Inreach. This needs a subscription. The 700 base model (no Inreach, in the US no City Navigator) uses GPS, Glonass and Gallileo satellites, the 700i and 750i (a 700i with a camera) drop the Glonass satellites, (something to do with the satellite communication. Lots of base memory, fast processors. Installed maps aren't clear. They do run the Great Britain Topo Pro maps, but not the old GB Discoverer. Garmin say they come with Topo Active Europe maps only, but the unit I saw (a 700i) also had City Navigator on it. This is important, since if it doesn't, and you want to use it for UK trail riding and switch between OS maps and street maps it's a trail side SD card swap.
There's a new powered mount which is quite expensive at £70 odd, and it has a step down transformer in the cable, quite a big box near the battery end of the cable which make cutting the cable down and putting in inline connector in to switch between bikes less easy. ]
I don't know if they run ANTS devices ( I keep going on about this as I think the ANTS Tempe temperature device is quite handy on dirt bikes that don't have temp read out)

With both the XT and Montana 7xx, there are ways to get routes loaded without a PC which could be a help on a trip.


Next up, Locus, Viewranger, TomTom Go, Myroute and a couple more

Adding to this list the Carpe Iter device (https://carpe-iter.com/).

This is a super high mil spec tactical matt black Android tablet device, with a proper bike mount, days of battery life and a very good screen. Also available are programmable handlebar remote controls.

It’s top end Garmin money but could be a great adventure and RTW device

Being Android it can run any of the Android apps, but it now comes with its own app called Drive Mode, which is billed as a a dedicated bike app with dashboards, maps, road book modes etc.

Drive Mode is also available for other Android devices as an app, so I’ll add that to the list too.


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Locus Maps Android only
I’ve started to look at this now, but can’t test it in the wild due to lockdown.

First off, if you can’t manage Basecamp this isn’t for you. It needs setting up before use, including choosing a routing engine as it doesn’t have one (though this may change with the v4 release), buying their LoCoins in app currency if you want to buy maps, setting up the dashboard, routing modes, and everything else. You can’t just fire it up and go for a ride.

However, it does everything. You can buy their curated maps, based on OSM, use free OSM maps, import KMZ maps, map images, unlocked Garmin maps.

Does a to b routing if the maps support it, or follow tracks, easy to import tracks and routes or create routes in the app.

There’s an option to integrate the search with Google search to find poi’s and then route to them

You can set up the dash board, use ANT devices if your Android supports them, organise the routes and tracks into libraries.

Big learning curve but very flexible. Really needs a thread of its own, but there’s a good forum and also good help pages and videos.


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The Swedish fellow gives Locus a big thumbs up and he does lots of off-road.

If you can get it cracked, a fresh topic thread would be excellent. Thank you for the effort made to work your way through the various choices.

I have been thinking about buying a cheap Android phone, just to muck about with. But, for now at least, Garmin and BaseCamp are my besties, as the kids say.
 
That's what I've done, really, I got an armoured Android phone, to mess about with and see if it will give me some alternatives when on the road especially when finding things like accommodation or fuel then routing to it, or to give me some alternative maps as well as acting as a back up.
Plus, as you know, I have more requirement for travelling unpaved roads.

So far, in my opinion Garmin still wins. Ive just bought Zumo XT and it resolves one of the biggest criticisms of Garmin, that of being able to get a route to the device without a computer. It also has some other good features, like the iOverlander database, weather, traffic, and a Google type search via the Drive app.

Locus could be a winner but since most people are struggling to download a route for the TET then an app where you need to install a separate routing engine it's for those willing to invest a bit of time in it only.

The Swedish fellow gives Locus a big thumbs up and he does lots of off-road.

If you can get it cracked, a fresh topic thread would be excellent. Thank you for the effort made to work your way through the various choices.

I have been thinking about buying a cheap Android phone, just to muck about with. But, for now at least, Garmin and BaseCamp are my besties, as the kids say.
 
The Garmin Monterra will run standard Android apps as it is, effectively, an Android device with no SIM card :)
It wasn't that popular, so I suppose that could be an option to a rugged phone as well.


Ive just bought Zumo XT and it resolves one of the biggest criticisms of Garmin

Agree 200%.
 
I might well have bought an XT but it will not mount into the carrier on my 1600.

As BMW seem to have dropped their relationship with Garmin and are now favouring the iPhone / smartphone route over dedicated GPS units, I guess it’ll be my perfectly good Nav VI and V until the 1600 goes, which won’t be for a while yet, I hope.

The move to phone and TFT methods seems to be popular on these pages, which (if they are a barometer of the world outside) might indicate that the days of Garmin and TomTom type standalone units are numbered, just as paper maps are all but obsolete in some quarters. Hey ho, nothing lasts forever; just look at facsimile machines, video tapes and CD’s.
 
The move to phone and TFT methods seems to be popular on these pages

It is a general trend.
Definitely going direction on another forum I write on.

Most people tend to forget that normal phones will generally destroyed relatively quickly by the bike's vibration, or they will generally overheat pretty often in summer.
But for many, using the phone is "easier". This is also Garmin's fault for having consistently provided "not great software" for decadeds.
There is also the TFT/shiny object factor.

Also people don't want to pay for maps.
Most people don't need detailed map. Just see the difference between TomTom and Garmin.

Most of the requests from a lot of users on these devices are regarding: music, notification for incoming messages, how to pick up phone calls, etc.


I personally prefer to have a dedicated GPS unit (I actually have a few between pushbike and motorbikes, but because I'm a nerd). I also want to use the GPS for navigation on/off road and some "connected" features as weather/traffic, exchanging routes with other devices when needed.
Everything else is (to me) extremely superfluous, but I understand they have to sell this stuff.

I don't think GPSs are going to disappear, it is just that Garmin has been very slow to react.
I've been using the Explore app. There might be a user case to have smaller even more rugged GPS models on the bike where the more complex interaction (create routes, etc) can be done from the phone via Explore.
I think this is the case with some handhelds where you can not have the touch screen, as the buttons will be better in muddy conditions, but if you have to create a new (complex) route, you can stop 10 minutes, faff on your phone (faster & easier) and then send it to the device via Bluetooth.

Since I've got the XT (and the 396 before it) I mostly input destinations via the phone.
 
Going by my research so far, any of the phone apps which have a similar feature set to a Garmin are harder to use. Plus, the weak point have always been waterproofing, vibration and charging, as usb chargers aren’t as good as a powered mount.

Wireless charging could well solve that, as does buying an armoured phone,but at £250 odd for Hondo mount and another £200 for a phone, it’s not cheap nor is the Carpe Iter device which solves those problems too. Plus I wouldn’t want to use the armoured phone as my daily phone as it weighs a ton.

There’s still no one Garmin device that covers all bases, the XT seems a great road device but doesn’t run raster maps, the Montana 700i is a great device but has more limited road features, like it doesn’t do 6 digit post codes and it’s not clear what the maps are that ship with it.


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I'm going down the Carpe Iter CI controller/Galaxy Tab Active 2/Brodit powered mount/Locus Map route to use alongside my Garmin VI, at least to start with.

Locus is about to bring out PC based route planning software on a subscription model so I'll look at that when it becomes available.

I'm currently looking at Locus Map Pro, I didn't find any issues with buying their own "currency" to buy maps (which are excellent), nor with downloading the offline routing companion software. Now I have to learn how to use the software.
 
I think the drive (pun intended) towards phones as do-it-all GPS devices, has been accelerated by:

1. The latest phones are expensive commodities, so bods want to get ‘best value’ out of them. Adding a bespoke GPS device only adds to the expense.

2. Many bods do not want to create their own bespoke routes, negating absolutely the need for a Garmin / Tom Tom and their associated software. They want to ask their device (which might as well be their phone) to “Give me great roads, twisties, no motorways, from A to B and keep directing me to B, so I can’t ever get lost”. We see exactly the same request in the Travel section, so it’s only natural that they’ll ask a phone for the same thing.

3. Phones are all but ‘plug’n’play’ linking (with luck) near enough seamlessly with modern TFT screens. A phone can sit in a bod’s pocket or tank bag, where (providing it’s got a charge) it will perform well. Mounting and powering a GPS (whilst not difficult) requires some effort - unless a cradle was fitted at the point of sale - and then there is the seemingly endless worry about the theft of the GPS device. But hey, that’s nothing, TFT screens are (apparently) nicked more often.

4. The seemingly endless need to be ‘connected’. Phone calls are vital, the sight of text messages are vital, music is vital. A phone will do them all, whilst a dedicated GPS device (without a phone connected) will only do the music and for that you probably need an SD card.
 
Quick review the Furkot trip planning app

Found here. It's free, with a paid $14 per year option, which gives some extra features like type of export of data and other stuff.

First off, it's website not an app, though it's optimised for phones too. It's via Michelin type of thing, intended to give you tools to plan a multi day trip, choose and book accommodation, find restaurants and find stuff to do. I used to plan trip to Scotland.



So, how did it go? You start off by opening the "trip" drawer and giving it some parameters, like trip dates, mode of transport, how many miles per day you want to travel, length of stops. The open the "plan" drawer, and then either click points on the map or enter destinations, and it will calculate the route for you, breaking it up into days and putting in overnight stops based on your daily miles and travel hours. If you try to do too much, it warns that the trip will be extended, but you can also set no end date in trip planner if the trip is open ended. Each time you set a destination it calculates the route so you can see it as you go. It doesn't know much about ferries, so don't rely on there being a ferry where it thinks they are. You end up with a plan, like the one above, with each leg, day and total trip miles shown. You can also set a fuel range and it will calculate fuel stops.

You can set, say the mileage and travel time per day for the overall trip, and then if it forces a stop you don't want you can override it. Since it's a bike trip with a van trip at either end, in Trip I set motorbike, and curvy roads, 150 miles a day, and travel from 9-5 each day. It then tried to make me stay in Manchester or somewhere equally nasty. To override the settings is not very intuitive - go into plan, then go into the little bed icon of the forced stop, click settings, and enter you new mileage for that day, but once understood it's easy enough.

Set on motorbike mode, curvy roads, it still picks major roads but you can drag to change the route, the OSM based map seems quite good and has more or less the same level of detail as Garmin maps when zoomed in, and it's good enough to get the overall shape of the plan.

Once you're set, you can open the "sleep drawer" and various lodging options appear, at your planned stops, which you can book using booking.com, hotels.com or Expedia. You can set the location using a moveable circle that appears on the screen.

Once that's done, you can set coffee stops by moving the mouse on the route, which give time of day and distance. I like a coffee around 11, so roll along till 11am shows on the route, then open the "Eat" drawer and cafe's and stuff pops up on the map. Pick one and it's included in the route.



There's also a "find" drawer, in case you want to go looking at museums or bids, but in fact this is a little gem and will show local "biking roads, including those from Best Biking Roads (BBR), view points, picnic spots, etc. and even off road routes, if there are any. As before, click it to include it in the route.

So you end up with a route and plan broken down by day, with coffee stops and stuff to see and do.

It can all be exported as a GPX which contains routes, tracks, or both and all the way points which imports nicely into Basecamp with a route/track per day. I exported tracks and routes, and then if Basecamp recalculates I can adjust the route in basecamp using the track as reference, then send down to the GPS.

Also, every time you make a change on the trip on the website, the trip on your device updates. Really, a trip needs to be planned on a PC or Mac, as the some tools like dragging to reorder stops don't work on mobiles, but everything else seems to work well.

I bit of a fiddle to start, but overall I liked it.
 


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