How to gain confidence?

King Rat

King Rat

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How do you overcome the sweats and sheer fear that you get when the bike slips?

I have put MT21s on the X Challenge with a view to eventually upgrading from the farm drive type of offroad (pot holed road) that is the sum total of my experience so far. To try and gain some 'off road' confidence I have been riding the back lanes and running down the 'shit pile' in the centre, which is 3" or 4" of mud and grass or gravel build up, when there is a tyre rut across it the front wheel wants to go sideways and try to tip me off with the wheel sliding sideways.

How do you deal with this type of reaction please? I didn't touch the brakes because I know I would have come off if I had. I saved it, but it has filled me with dread now and I just know it is going to happen if I carry on. I can't afford to break it, so learning by dropping it is NOT an option. I need to learn without dropping it, ever. I don't know what lanes are allowed and which ones are now prohibited either. How do you know? Again, even though family farm in the Peak District, I don't know how to find out. I tried to join the TRF and was told 'my sort wasn't wanted'. I have the 'wrong bike' and they only want people with experience. That was more or less word for word what I was told by the chap on the phone, the phone number advertised for our area (Potteries). All these off road people seem to be the same - complain like hell that they are not being allowed to go where they were, but not prepared to help anyone else. Conundrum.
 
Sadly, I think your local TRF group may be the problem! I ride with 3 different TRF groups because of my geographical location, and I can honestly say that you could not wish to meet a more friendly & helpful group of guys. I strongly suggest you join another group. As with anything related to human nature you will always find odd balls in any mixed group, you only have to read some of the the posts on this forum.
The single best way to find out where to ride is to join a TRF group.
Regarding confidence, off road riding is like any past time / hobby, the more frequently you participate, the better & more confident / proficient that you become.
You also need to remember, that you have the ultimate sanction on what you ride, if you do not like the look of something or do not feel safe or confident , then you need to say to the run leader, not for me I will give this one a miss. There is a very steep hill near me 'Butser' that I avoid like the plague, I simply do not like it & I am not afraid to say so.
Quite a few TRF groups organise their runs to suit differing skill levels, which makes learning the ropes a lot easier.
Please try another group & do not give up and in closing remember off road riding is fantastic fun and not a competition.
 
King Rat said:
I need to learn without dropping it, ever.
Click to expand...
You may find that difficult. To learn, you have to "experience" the situation. I think the best advice I can give is to get some training, using their bikes, or buy a cheap bike that you don't care about and won't mind dropping.
Mark
 
To be honest the pile of slippy stuff in the middle of a lane is always slippy as a slippy thing. Factor in your inexperience and fear, I bet your arms are involuntarily going 'stiff' which doesn't help either. Try some easier green lanes, ride them a lot and build up your confidence slowly.

And don't watch the ground six feet in front of the wheel, asking for trouble. Head up, eyes up :beerjug:
 
Look for a TRF group that put on rides for new/inexperienced riders. You may have to review your expectations, it is not reasonable to go greenlaneing with the thought of never dropping your bike. That said, if you wait until the weather improves it does get a lot easier, and in most cases dropping your bike while on the lanes results in very minimal damage. As has been said, most TRF groups are very keen to help new riders.
 
What pressure are you running in your tyres?
If normal road pressures try dropping it by a few psi.
As has been said, if you ride off-road you are going to fall off.
If you want to take it further I’m in the Peak and am quite happy to take you out once lock down’s lifted and it’s dried out a bit.
 
Learn to ride off road using someone else’s bike.
Going back 14 years, I did the off road courses with Simon Pavey, I only did part one.
One of the tricks Simon taught us was to manage a skid or front end wipe out, to do this he rode around the arena (outside and off-road in the wet) with his front wheel locked, as the wheel slipped away he changed his balance to keep the bike in control and let the front wheel spin momentarily. We were encouraged to do the same with varying degrees of success. Perhaps after lock down you should give it a try?
 
Seamaster said:
Learn to ride off road using someone else’s bike.
Going back 14 years, I did the off road courses with Simon Pavey, I only did part one.
One of the tricks Simon taught us was to manage a skid or front end wipe out, to do this he rode around the arena (outside and off-road in the wet) with his front wheel locked, as the wheel slipped away he changed his balance to keep the bike in control and let the front wheel spin momentarily. We were encouraged to do the same with varying degrees of success. Perhaps after lock down you should give it a try?
Click to expand...

I can't even picture what he was doing in that scenario. As it happens I have Si Pavey's wheels in my bike, they were custom made for him as spares. I would do a course if they weren't so expensive.... they may well be value for money, but the number is simply too big.
 
timeandtide said:
What pressure are you running in your tyres?
If normal road pressures try dropping it by a few psi.
As has been said, if you ride off-road you are going to fall off.
If you want to take it further I’m in the Peak and am quite happy to take you out once lock down’s lifted and it’s dried out a bit.
Click to expand...

That is very useful, I am a little down on what they recommend for the road. 30 and 32 I think, instead of 33 and 36. They don't half feel strange on the road, wanting to go straight on at every bend... and the bike wants to stand up all the time too. I am fighting it to go round a roundabout, so I am pottering about even more than usual. I am also conscious that I think these tyres might disappear much faster than normal tyres.

Which part of the Peaks do you go to? There is a cafe somewhere on a road that joins two main roads. I went to it once doing a photoshoot of one of the Trucks (a new Volvo model) Alan someoneorother.. dark green livery. But I have never been able to find it again - big car park outside and I think there was a truck wash there too.
 
King Rat said:
How do you overcome the sweats and sheer fear that you get when the bike slips?

I have put MT21s on the X Challenge with a view to eventually upgrading from the farm drive type of offroad (pot holed road) that is the sum total of my experience so far. To try and gain some 'off road' confidence I have been riding the back lanes and running down the 'shit pile' in the centre, which is 3" or 4" of mud and grass or gravel build up, when there is a tyre rut across it the front wheel wants to go sideways and try to tip me off with the wheel sliding sideways.
Click to expand...

Two things.
1st MT21 is useless in mud.
2nd This situation...Move your weight back and open the throttle, how much is up to you.
 
I think you need to fall off a few times to realise that its not as bad as you thought it was . have fun make mistakes and learn from them. ride at your own pace and try stuff out of your comfort zone . fall off get back on and try again :thumb2
 
Training and more training

Hi Simon

I've recently joined the x country club. You've commented on my recent purchase and I'm keen to get out on the road with it. Perhaps hook up one day.

I'm not an expert on off roading, but I tried to get into it over the last few years. For what its worth...........training training training is a great guide, and being very comfortable on a bike that your willing to fall off.

This I found difficult because I like my bikes and don't really like trashing them, human nature more than likely and a mix of OCD.

The bike I bought was not right for the job and was too much for me.................unless you're being guided by the right people or know the trails then its prob very easy to be confronted with tracks/obstacles that you haven't been taught to ride on. Then its all down to fate.

The best thing I did was go for some training whilst being guided as well on a rental bike.

I went to a few places all were great.........I'd certainly recommend Mike Extance nr Lake Vyrnwy and and Rob at RM trail riding Llangollen. Top guys and so willing to show you what works what doesn't and how to enjoy and stay safe. I also used Inch Perfect in Lancs, but prob a bit far for you.

Its well worth the investment.

I did a day with the local TRF.........superb guys and very willing to help.............I felt very much out of my depth, but they were excellent and so much experience and skills.

I eventually realised that I needed to invest in another bike which was more suitable.........which I didn't do. There were other reasons too, which if you wish to PM me I'll explain.

So I limited myself to the pleasures of riding round nadgery back lanes in shitty conditions in fantastic scenery, mainly round the Trough of Bowland, so easy accessible from home.

Hence why I've now got an x country do do this, and I hope it meets my needs.

Good luck with your ambition to ride more off road...........enjoy some training its money well spent. And all the skills acquired help so much on the road too.

Cheers Ali
 
Timolgra said:
Two things.
1st MT21 is useless in mud.
2nd This situation...Move your weight back and open the throttle, how much is up to you.
Click to expand...

Oh dear. I have them now so will have to put up with them. BUT, why are they useless in mud? They have big nobbles rather than lines. I have no ambition to go through mud anyway, not this mud like you see with their bikes axle deep in it... 3 or 4 inches and a bike length or two max. I am learning remember.
 
peepingtom said:
I think you need to fall off a few times to realise that its not as bad as you thought it was . have fun make mistakes and learn from them. ride at your own pace and try stuff out of your comfort zone . fall off get back on and try again :thumb2
Click to expand...

I fell off once, 4 years ago. I am still recovering..... it was not a get up and go again experience.
 
King Rat said:
Oh dear. I have them now so will have to put up with them. BUT, why are they useless in mud? They have big nobbles rather than lines. I have no ambition to go through mud anyway, not this mud like you see with their bikes axle deep in it... 3 or 4 inches and a bike length or two max. I am learning remember.
Click to expand...

In that case take the easiest and safest line.
 
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