How to get from A to B....

.... or how you and your six mates, leaving tomorrow morning, might do it for yourselves.

The advice is always: “Buy a map, mate” but, unless you know (or can imagine) how to read one, it’s not always the best way to start. Here’s some ideas to maybe set you going.

1. Know how long you have available to make the journey. That might sound obvious but just look at how many requests for help do not ever tell the audience that one very simple piece of information.

2. From that time period deduct however long it will take you to get from home to your chosen departure point and do the same for your return journey. Again, this sounds obvious but lots of people forget. Have a look at how many posts start by saying, “I have a week and want to go from Calais to Nice and back.... I live in Manchester.....” A week sounds like seven full days, but you then discover that it has to include a day getting from Manchester to Calais and a full day back. Seven days is actually five, for the main purpose of the trip, which is getting from Calais to Nice and back again.

3. Start to imagine the distances and direction of travel involved. Better still, cheat. Ask Google to give you Calais to Nice by the most direct route, which it will do in seconds:



761 miles, direct, door-to-door, using motorways. Estimated non-stop journey time 11 hours 16 minutes.

Google also suggested two other routes (greyed out). These might be of interest but they route you through or close to Paris, so you might want to ignore these.

4. You now know the clear direction of travel A to B and the distance. You have also been given the journey time. Take a bit of care with the latter as that is non-stop at a steady but reasonable assumed average driving speed. Again, it sounds obvious but if you stop for a hour for lunch or even 10 minutes to buy fuel, the time period increases.

5. Now comes the adjusting bits. You know it is 761 miles A to B, down the tolled motorways of France. But you want to avoid motorways, taking instead all those nice country roads you have heard so much about. You have still only got five days, there and back. Many people confuse distances abroad, not realising how big countries like France are. The great thing though, is that a mile is still a mile, no matter where you are. Now imagine riding 761 miles in the UK. That is, Manchester to Penzance (or Inverness) and back again. I asked Google to give me the distances, so I could imagine where Manchester was in relation to places. Now ask yourself, if you were riding that journey in the UK, would you go there and back in a day? I might suggest that you’d take two days, perhaps? If so, that is in total four days out of your available five days gone, just getting from Calais to Nice and back again, leaving just the one day in Nice.

6. We have now got some ideas as to how the holiday is shaping up. We know the distances involved and we know the time available. Before we look at the roads to ride, let’s consider the other old favourite: “Things (plural) to see and do along the way”. Now imagine yourself riding from Manchester to Inverness in a day. How many and for how long are you going to factor in for stopping and looking at, mixed in (or not) with a mid-morning coffee stop, a lunch stop, an afternoon tea stop and maybe two fuel stops? I might suggest, not that many; maybe not even one? France between Calais and Nice will be no different. Into this simple hypothesis, we can throw hotels or digs, to use the popular vernacular. Here it gets really tricky, as there are hundreds spread along the 761 miles A to B. Compound this with nobody having any idea as to where you might be come evening meal and bedtime. My simple suggestion, would be to divide the journey into two equal parts, which is easy enough to do and find yourself a hotel around that point. This suggestion does though assume that your two day journey A to B, kicks off reasonably early in the morning. Equidistant between A and B might not work if you set your wheels rolling at 14:30.

7. Now roads to ride. Everyone wants, “Great, twisty roads, no motorways”. Now go back to consider the time and distance thing we’ve looked at already. If you were going from Manchester to Penzance and back in two days, would you take lesser and minor roads all the way? In short, how would you do it for your holiday, here at home? France will be near enough the same consideration. Now, consider what it is you have actually asked someone, who knows nothing about you, your riding habits and preferences or, very probably, nothing about your timetable, for. Yiu have asked them for great roads, no motorways for 761 miles! How much or how little detail do you want to be given? Not least, consider that, just because you are in France, there is no automatic guarantee that there are great twisty roads everywhere and anywhere any more than there are great twisty roads everywhere in the UK.

8. But, you still want to avoid motorways? OK, it’s time to cheat again. Or rather employ the tools that the internet has given you, for free. Ask Google for the same Calais to Nice journey but excluding all motorways and tolls.



The broad direct of travel hasn’t altered much. That is not surprising as Calais and Nice don’t move that often. The distance is still over 700 miles but the estimated time taken to drive the distance has leapt, not surprisingly, whilst your time available of two days has not changed at all.

9. You now have a non-motorway, un-tolled, route A to B. By zooming in, you can see the roads, their road numbers and all the names of towns and villages. In short, you have an A to B route, with all but no effort. But you don’t trust Google....

10. OK, now it’s time to exploit the internet again. In short, cheat again. Ask a free app, like viaMichelin, for the same thing: Calais to Nice, on a motorbike, avoiding motorways and tolls, ‘discovery’ mode or some other mode. It will give you something like this:



750 miles. There really is no getting away from the fact that it’s always over 700 miles, is there?

Now zoom in a bit, as Michelin give you free detailed maps in the app.





Bingo! One route, created in seconds.

11. Still not sure? OK, turn to another free app, Kurviger. This will give you several routing choices. Start by selecting non-motorways, reasonably twisty, which will give you this, for Calais to Nice:



Bingo, again! But wait a minute, it’s done something else. In giving you reasonably twisty, no motorways and tolls, it has bumped the A to B distance up to nearly 1,100 miles. That is getting on for a 50% increase (half as far again) on the Google and ViaMichelin suggestions and you still have only two days. Are you sure you want to go that way? If so, great. You can zoom in and see all the detail. What’s more you can send the route straight to your GPS device or phone. One route created, with as little effort as that.

But, just take a little bit of care. Kurviger is good but its algorithms are still a compromise. It can throw-up some silly little (or not so little) detours just to take you off what is otherwise a perfectly good, sensible to take, road. Here’s a simple example, picked at random from the 1,100 mile route:



The algorithm has taken you off the perfectly good (but a bit further) D87 and routed you along an unclassified minor road. That could be fine or it might not. In short, use some imagination as to what it might mean. Not least, when that bit of the journey pops up on your GPS device, make a decision then and there as to whether to follow your Garmin’s magenta line blindly or whether you are cleverer than it is and ignore it this time.

to me , planning the route is part of the fun.

theoneandonly said:

to me , planning the route is part of the fun.

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Same here, even though I may change my mind en route!

Why does it take a day to get from Manchester to Calais? Is the person on a pedal cycle?

Why does it take a day? It doesn’t always but some bods don’t leave home until midday or, in some enquiries, after they leave work. The day (often part of their week away) has just vanished. I chose Manchester simply as an illustrative point when suggesting that people get a feel for distance. It sat conveniently enough in the middle upper part of England, lending itself to the Lands End / Off the map, here be monsters northern bit and as an illustration on how far 700 plus miles is.

Bods planning holidays with suggestions from this site often forget in their excitement to see all the ‘must do’ sites and ride the ‘must do’ roads that they have less time than they might think and / or forget that they need to come back and that their return from point is getting further and further away or that on one or two days they might like a day off their bike. Some even forget that the real overriding purpose of their jaunt is to get to place XYZ to chill with the wife for five days by the pool, leaving them just two days to hit every goat track and point of the compass to get there and come back.

theoneandonly said:

to me , planning the route is part of the fun.

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Indeed so but some bods just don’t know how to just or want their holiday created for them. The purpose of this thread was to try to help them do just that themselves. It may well seem obvious to some some but to others it’s not. Let’s not forget that some enquiries come from bods who have never ridden - or even been - abroad, to them it really is a mystery..... and some are just plain lazy and unimaginative.

theoneandonly said:

to me , planning the route is part of the fun.

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To me, getting lost is part of the fun.


Not recommended for bods on a timetable.

brut33 said:

To me, getting lost is part of the fun.


Not recommended for bods on a timetable.

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Aha, the old I never plan nothing me, response. Easy, when you know how.

All very well put and fully understandable by anyone with a modicum of common sense

But what happens when you want to get from A to B and then to C or D....

A to C is merely an extension of going from A to B. Likewise A to D, via B and C.

Whilst I get your excellent joke, you do make a very good point. A to B to C could be a one day jaunt, say A to B in the morning, followed by B to C in the afternoon. Or it could be jaunts over two days, A to B on day one, B to C on day two. Whichever or whatever it is, the same simple method and basic rules of creating a route apply.

I'm going to miss all your excellent advice once we are allowed out on the roads again Richard

What about the Garmin effect though?

A few of us head off around Europe each year (Ignore 2020 and possibly 2021 for obvious reasons) and we take it in turn planning the route and hotels.

We all use a Garmin of some description, but....... why is it that each day we all have the exact same shared route in the Garmin, and the distance and times to destination are all different... then... when we get to the first junction, why are we all being told to toddle off in different directions?

Same settings in the devices, same map, same 'avoidance', it just decides to send you where it fancies really...

Roger.

Michelin

Now that we have got creating a holiday route from A to B or indeed A to Z, via all the letters in between, we can have a look at that old favourite of Michelin maps. According to some, this is all you will ever need, as all you need to do is follow the green bordered yellow coloured D roads. Yup, you can do that but it has some obvious challenges and indeed some flaws. Let’s go....

1. Find the right map

Michelin make a vast range of maps, just of France alone, let alone Spain, Germany, the Benelux and Italy. They can cover anything from the whole huge country on one sheet of paper, to the entire country split in half, another set splits it into quarters, thro’ to regional maps, local maps, maps with lots of detail, maps with detail stripped out of them, the list goes on and on. My advice woukd be to:

A. Imagine what you want to use the map for. If your intention is to go from Calais to Nice, straight down the motorway, you probably don’t need a map that shows the Brittany peninsular in intimate minute detail.

B. If, when you get to Nice, you fancy using the city as a base for a ride each day, using little roads, through little towns and villages, then you may well value the local, detailed regional or provincial map. Again, you’ll not be needing Brittany included.

2. Know how to read it

A map is nothing more than a one dimensional view of a three dimensional world. All the information is there, providing the map maker put it in. Why do I say that? It goes back to point one above, what purpose does the map serve? You can see an example of this here:



You could just about use this map to get from Calais to Nice, as it shows just about enough of the largest motorways to get you there.

Hoof up the detail of the map and you can see the start of the intimate detail around Calais, for example:



Hoof it up again and you can see more still:



Up another level and, whilst you long ago lost any proportional view as to where Nice is, you can find very small local places and roads, and we are not even at the most intimate scale or detail yet.

So we have established that a map can, if you have the right one tell you quite a lot or very little. So how about those green bordered yellow D roads? Here’s one within a spit of Calais, somewhere where bods say there are no good roads at all:



The eagle eyed will spot that the green border is sometimes along a yellow road, sometimes along a white (unclassified) road and sometimes along a red, national road. Some bods will tell you to avoid red national roads, but hey, then you’d miss a green scenic road, surely? I mention this only because it proves a point. The green border is nothing more than Michelin’s attempt to pick out roads that it’s map makers think are ‘scenic’. Michelin maps are not exclusive to motorcyclists (indeed, we are in the minority of road users) so the roads are just as likely to be used - and full of - cars and motorhomes and bicycles as they are bimbling or hooning bikers, all gawping at the same scenic views. In short, they are not necessarily ‘great biking roads’. Not least, your opinion as to what is ‘scenic’ about the flat lands of Cap Gris Nez, might be very different to Michelin’s map makers’.

The equally eagle eyed will spot that the green border is sometimes on one side of the road, sometimes on another and sometimes on both sides. That tells you which side the view is on. The really keen, especially in cars, can chose their direction of travel accordingly.

So are the green lined routes perfect? No. Not least, they may well not take you too far if you intend to ride from Calais to Nice in short order.

Now, what next? Use the map to tell you what the progress might be like. Here’s an example:



What you’ll notice is that it’s all nice country roads (no motorways, mate) some green lined (great, scenic, mate) but...... it’s a mass of villages and villages mean what? Yes, maybe a bar or cafe (if you are lucky) but definitely a 30 mph speed limit or less. In other words, it might well be slow going. That is great if you are not in a hurry but useless if you are in a rush to catch your ferry. So, use what the map tells you, use your imagination and find the right level of detail.

Anything else? Well, potentially lots but, here’s one to think about....

It seems an obvious one but people do forget. If a road is full of serpentine, packed together twists, it is not straight. If it’s straight it is pretty easy to go quickly. If it twists, it may well be slower and, if you are dead unlucky, packed with motorhomes or bicycles, which might slow you more. They are as entitled to use the road as much as you are, live with it or get better at overtaking. You have lots of horsepower, they may only have one man power; you can do it. In short, if you are in a hurry, maybe find another way?



In the screen shot, you might even think about taking the main road or even a motorway, if you are pushed for time. It’s not a heresy to do so and you might just make last orders at the bar. It’s your choice.

Popell said:

I'm going to miss all your excellent advice once we are allowed out on the roads again Richard

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Thank you.

I thought it was a good time to do another piece on the affair. Hopefully bods are thinking about going away and / or doing some planning of their own. There’s very little else to do.

G5RJO said:

What about the Garmin effect though?

We all use a Garmin of some description, but....... why is it that each day we all have the exact same shared route in the Garmin, and the distance and times to destination are all different... then... when we get to the first junction, why are we all being told to toddle off in different directions?

Roger.

Click to expand...

I can't bothered programming the whole route in a nav , id just rather look at a map and pick towns to aim for each day but my pal likes the road planning bit and enjoys putting them all in basecamp then downloads them to his Garmin & mine . Wen have exactly the same happen to us within miles of setting off. I always set my view to North up which makes it easier to zoom out and see the obvious variance in the route, usually one is cutting a corner off taking less turns but the other decides that taking more turns is just as quick. But why ?

But what if your #stupidfuckinbastard twat nav only downloads northern France mapping and you want to go south but end up spending 3 days in the environs of Calais,going from dealer to dealer to download the missing maps and now only have 4 days instead of 7 ?
Is you fucked ?
I’ve heard this can happen....

Wapping said:

Aha, the old I never plan nothing me, response. Easy, when you know how.

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Bollocking accepted.

Arsey said:

But what if your #stupidfuckinbastard twat nav only downloads northern France mapping and you want to go south but end up spending 3 days in the environs of Calais,going from dealer to dealer to download the missing maps and now only have 4 days instead of 7 ?
Is you fucked ?
I’ve heard this can happen....

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Only if you're riding with Nutty!!

Arsey said:

But what if your #stupidfuckinbastard twat nav only downloads northern France mapping and you want to go south but end up spending 3 days in the environs of Calais,going from dealer to dealer to download the missing maps and now only have 4 days instead of 7 ?
Is you fucked ?
I’ve heard this can happen....

Click to expand...

To be fair, a lot of bods suffered from what was a glitch imported from Garmin.

Wapping said:

....
But, just take a little bit of care. Kurviger is good but its algorithms are still a compromise. It can throw-up some silly little (or not so little) detours just to take you off what is otherwise a perfectly good, sensible to take, road. Here’s a simple example, picked at random from the 1,100 mile route:

mmm mmm,

The algorithm has taken you off the perfectly good (but a bit further) D87 and routed you along an unclassified minor road. That could be fine or it might not. In short, use some imagination as to what it might mean. Not least, when that bit of the journey pops up on your GPS device, make a decision then and there as to whether to follow your Garmin’s magenta line blindly or whether you are cleverer than it is and ignore it this time.

Click to expand...

The great thing is that you can always use Streetview to see what a road is like. Here is the very spot, with the minor road (Google Streetview will let you go down it) branching off to the left, through the small hamlet of la Farge. The D87 looks great and the little unadopted road looks OK, too.




https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@45.5...vZ2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40?hl=en-gb


PS Michelin maps do show the D87 as a ‘scenic’ green lined road. Ride it with confidence.

Not a single mention of Nav let alone 5 or 6! All this talk of fancy apps. I feel like a user of one of those massive early portable phones whilst everyone else is on their latest iPhone ordering bitcoin.

Actually those green verge thingies are very good - thanks for that