Another Sunbeam...

The smudger

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Those of you that know me will know i have a real 'Passion' for Sunbeams. Not the early Marston bikes, but the later BSA/AMC ones. I already have a 1949 S8 and a 1950 S7 Deluxe, but Mr BSA/AMC made 3, the only one i didn't have was the early S7.

Well, that's changed now, glad to say I've been chasing a mate who had one, and i wore him down and he eventually sold me it!

I collected it Wednesday, and am really happy with it. It needs finishing off, its been restored sympathetically, but needs to be finished off.

Now, the story, and I may, no, do need some help here!!

It began life in Dublin, registered in Kilkenny. It was despatched from the factory to 'Huet Brothers, Dublin' on 22nd October 1948. I have no records of who owned it in Ireland, or how long it was there, but it ended up in London. The next piece of the jigsaw is in December 1964, in the shape of a tax disc, issued in East Ham, London. There are a few other tax discs with the paperwork, the last one being a December 1967 one issued in Barkingside.

Then there is a huge void.

The next owner i can see (We'll call him owner A), which seems to be from looking at parts invoices i have in around 2008, started to restore the bike, but according to the next owner (a chap in Gravesend who i spoke to yesterday and bought the bike in around 2012, we'll call him owner B) owner A has since passed on.

Owner B, (the chap in Gravesend), told me a story about the bike, as he knew owner A, story as follows, "In around 2008, he (owner A) visited a bike shop in East London. It was apparently from memory a typical old style bike shop, just a shop front with living accommodation above, on the corner of a street. The proprietor showed him a couple of old Sunbeams in the cellar, lots of spares included, and absolutely covered in dust"

Now the date i don't know as owner B didn't know either, and the whereabouts of the shop is a mystery, infact it may not even still be there? He went on to say, "The chap (owner A) bought both of the bikes with a view to making one good bike out of both and all the spares. It turned out they were different models though, one was an S8, and the other an S7. I think the chap sold the S8 on, and concentrated on restoring the S7"

The S7 in question is the one i have now.

So, I am desperate to fill in the gaps obviously, as this is quite a rare bike (only 2100 made and of them only 300 stayed in the UK), and it really interests me of course.

First stop was DVLA. The bikes V5C states registered in 2014, declared manufactured in 1948. So, whilst in the cellar of the bike shop in East London, the bike clearly dropped off the DVLA's radar during the switch over to digital and owner B had to apply for the original registration mark. This was successful and i have correspondence to prove this. Apart from that they have no knowledge of the bike at all other than it was first registered in Kilkenny in 1948 (IP is a Kilkenny reg number so this proves it was the first number issued to the bike).

I am going to call the Irish equivalent of the DVLA next week, and the Dublin records office to see if they can shed any light on it. So, the questions i need to get answers to are as follows;

1. Who owned it in Ireland and when did it come to England?
2. What/where is the bike shop in East London, are they still there?
3. It was taxed in London from December 1964-December 1967 (I have the original tax discs). How do i find out who owned it and how long for?

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this or make a suggestion?

Thanks in advance..

Steve.
 

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Great story
I can’t fill any gaps but I can confirm that none of the four motorcycle shops in and around East Ham, had basements, nor are on street corners.
Sorry, I can’t recall two of their names
Renee Bennett’s
Eddie Grimstead
?
?

There was also Read Titan in Leytonstone, again, I don’t think it was on a street corner.
 
Mmmh, i wonder.... Frank Cox, MarKhouse Motorcycles, 109 Markhouse road, Leytonstone.

An "interesting character" to say the least. Mainly dealt in old BMW's but i remember all sorts of bikes stored out the back of the shop.
 
There was also Jack Nice in Walthamstow, (which may be a bit north). That looked like a normal house upstairs and had an entry down the side. Maybe not the corner plot mentioned.
 
Frank Cox - that takes me back, trying to tease an R26 mudguard out of him for a resto was something of a challenge; still, they don't make characters like that any more.

As to the S7, I bought a 1948 as a basket case back around 1970 when I lived in Reading. I had a early Square 4 & a very nice Triumph 21 on the boil at the time. Unfortunately, my career moved on & I was about to lose the use of the basement workshop, so the S7 & the 4G had to go. The Ariel had been run low on oil, so was in a bad way, but the Sunbeam was very viable, with the manuals & plenty of the necessary new parts already acquired, mainly from Stewart Engineering. They were rare even then, so it sold promptly, at a handsome profit, to a guy from London, but I really can't recall the detail. Definitely the same model though.

The 4G went to an Ariel enthusiast from Scotland IIRC, but I doubt it was retrievable. Things are different now as opportunities like that are far less plentiful. Just think of paying £10 for the Sunbeam; it sounds ridiculous now, but back then then a nice A1 late DBD34 Clubman could be picked up for £165 - call that £18k today.
 
Very interesting history. Good luck with your research!

My sister lives in Kilkenny (first place of registration) and I as a Dubliner by birth remember the name Huet brothers well....probably a name of French Huguenot origin.

My father (long gone, sadly) as a motorcycling teenager growing up in 1940s Dublin might well have been able to add more to this story
e6cb4d413d3842a3f7a6e6b786025984.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Frank Cox - that takes me back, trying to tease an R26 mudguard out of him for a resto was something of a challenge; still, they don't make characters like that any more.

As to the S7, I bought a 1948 as a basket case back around 1970 when I lived in Reading. I had a early Square 4 & a very nice Triumph 21 on the boil at the time. Unfortunately, my career moved on & I was about to lose the use of the basement workshop, so the S7 & the 4G had to go. The Ariel had been run low on oil, so was in a bad way, but the Sunbeam was very viable, with the manuals & plenty of the necessary new parts already acquired, mainly from Stewart Engineering. They were rare even then, so it sold promptly, at a handsome profit, to a guy from London, but I really can't recall the detail. Definitely the same model though.

The 4G went to an Ariel enthusiast from Scotland IIRC, but I doubt it was retrievable. Things are different now as opportunities like that are far less plentiful. Just think of paying £10 for the Sunbeam; it sounds ridiculous now, but back then then a nice A1 late DBD34 Clubman could be picked up for £165 - call that £18k today.

Interesting story Ken! I like the fact that the bike I have in the garage ‘could’ have been owned by you! There were not that many around so every possibility.....

I know what you mean about price, most Sunbeams were changing hands for a tenner, they were considered an ‘old mans bike’ back then, not exactly a fashion statement, unlike now...

The history is important to me, the story is incomplete and I see that as a challenge!!
 
Mmmh, i wonder.... Frank Cox, MarKhouse Motorcycles, 109 Markhouse road, Leytonstone.

An "interesting character" to say the least. Mainly dealt in old BMW's but i remember all sorts of bikes stored out the back of the shop.

It could be? There is definitely a link, albeit rather tenuous, as some say that Erling Poppe, chief designer of the S7, copied the idea from BMW, shaft drive, twin cylinder etc.. who knows, someone may indeed have traded this for ‘the real thing’?
 
Thanks for all the replies chaps! I will keep you posted. I have spoken to owner B again and he’s pretty sure owner A did pass away but he’s not 100%, so I have written to owner A in the hope he is still with us and can cast a light on the story! I’ll keep you posted.
 
Smudger, very interesting adventure...........good on you. Please keep us all posted, it's not just our dogs that get rescued and they always make the best pets because we have invested in them.
 
This has the makings of a very interesting thread, good luck Smudger, keep us posted with the history and finishing the resto.
 
Progress!

I mentioned previous that Owner A, it was feared had passed away. I sent a letter just in case, and he called today!! He had not passed away, in fact is alive and well! He was able to give the 'correct' story regarding how he came by the bike.

In 1997, he had a phone call from a mate, who was a debt collector. He had gone to an old terraced house in Barking (Owner A could not remember where sadly), to collect non payment of rent. He subsequently had the tenants evicted, and had to arrange the clearance of the place. The 2 bikes, (IP 6096 and a Mist Green one, which he thinks was an S7d), were in the cellar of the property. The debt collector asked Owner A as he knew he was into his bikes if he would be interested in them, but initially wasn't sure what they were? Owner A said he suspected that as they were in a cellar, to which access was apparently poor, they would be a couple of old NSU mopeds, and was very pleasantly surprised when he turned up to see the 2 Sunbeams sat there! They took some identifying as there was just 2 frames, 2 engines and gearboxes, and loads of spares, under years of dust, wood and blankets. He called his son in law who came to assist, it took a couple of days to get everything top the small stairway!

It was discovered that the house was originally lived in by an elderly couple who had no children, subsequently died and the bikes were just left there! The people who rented the house over the years never knew they were there!!

Anyway, Owner A started to restore the bikes, and quickly discovered the wheels were missing. He made a few calls only to discover they were mega expensive, a bitter blow. After a few weeks the debt collector mate called him again to explain that the cellar had a small room off it, which was locked. He returned to the cellar and found the wheels!

He did a partial rest and then passed the bike on to Owner B in 2010.

The story is a bit fuller now, still lots of holes but I'm getting there..

Meanwhile, there's been some progress at the workshop. Ive overhauled and fitted the dynamo, fitted the levers, removed the incorrect side stand and taken the bottoms off the tank, enjoying the job so far!
 

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This is better than a crime thriller .... now carry on regardless :thumb

:beerjug:
 
That must've been brilliant to find the wheels,what a great story and thread,enjoying this :)

Kimbo
 
Can I take it the bottom of the tank we’re rusted through and so needed removing to seal the tank?

Great thread, and good detective work to uncover the history of this bike. please keep us updated on your progress
 


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