All round gear - laminated or removable waterproof liner

xantamisch

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what's the verdict? currently have BMW Rallye suit which is mega comfortable, well ventilated, but I get damp even with the liner in (and it's a right old faff to put it in anyway).

how are laminate suits in warmer weather?

thanks
 
Boil in the bag regardless - I've several of both.
Waterproof over the top of the Rally - talk nicely to your BMW parts guy and he will order the newer version waterproof jacket or just use any goretex of your choice from Go Outdoors, Blacks, Cotswold, etc.
Thats all it is with a BMW badge on the arm and probably not as breathable.
Klim do a cracking Jacket and trousers though with full length zips to go over bike kit - which I tend to use more than the rest of the kit and with Klim, you can also put the armour straight into them if you choice as well.
 
xantamisch said:
what's the verdict? currently have BMW Rallye suit which is mega comfortable, well ventilated, but I get damp even with the liner in (and it's a right old faff to put it in anyway).

how are laminate suits in warmer weather?

thanks
Click to expand...

It depends on how much venting they have

Rukka Nivala is ok vent wise but the other rukka re a bit poor in that dept

Klim Badlands are extremely well ventilated

Laminate stuff is better than drop liner IMO but others will disagree
 
RedRick Esq. said:
It depends on how much venting they have

Rukka Nivala is ok vent wise but the other rukka re a bit poor in that dept - Agree

Klim Badlands are extremely well ventilated - Agree

Laminate stuff is better than drop liner IMO but others will disagree - Agree
Click to expand...


See above
 
goretex drop liner that goes over jacket if its really wet. textile jackets get water logged when liner is inside and that will make you cold. Look at (HELD ) lots of vent so you can choose if you want liner in or over.
 
Last edited:
xantamisch said:
how are laminate suits in warmer weather?
Click to expand...

How warm is warm?
My experience is that Laminates with vents are fine up to about low 30`s, and above that can be a problem.
Sgt Bilco has good advice to give on this eg zip up and drop a bottle of water down your tee shirt etc.
 
peter56 said:
goretex drop liner that goes over jacket if its really wet. textile jackets get water logged when liner is inside and that will make you cold. Look at (HELD ) lots of vent so you can choose if you want liner in or over.
Click to expand...

Not really! I'm using Iron Black textile Jacket. It has great protection against wind, cold and rain. Pretty satisfied with the quality of the jacket. Has three air-flow vents that help me to ride on longer routes even in summers.
 
If you do lots of miles and / or really do ride all year, then the answer is to have two suits.

1. Mesh one, unwaterproof, over which you can put a waterproof cover. It really doesn’t rain that often.

2. A waterproof one, with the Gore Tex bonded to the outer surface.

The latter does not need to have tons of insulation. Just make sure it is loose enough to allow some layering or the addition of an electric liner.
 
RedRick Esq. said:
It depends on how much venting they have

Rukka Nivala is ok vent wise but the other rukka re a bit poor in that dept

Klim Badlands are extremely well ventilated

Laminate stuff is better than drop liner IMO but others will disagree
Click to expand...

The new Nivala 2 is even better vented. It will be in the shops in the new year. It also has a better quilted liner. It will be priced the same as the old Nivala, i.e. expensive

Wapping is correct in that you really need more than one set of kit as nothing is perfect in every weather condition.
 
I’ve used vented laminated Klim up to 42c, although once you’re in the 30’s you’re better off with mesh and I may well buy one to take with me on my next European jaunt.

Since laminated doesn’t get saturated like a layered jacket would, they dry quickly. One often overlooked factor is that, in the UK you’re often dealing with rain one minute, sun the next, rain again etc. I don’t want to have to stop and change kit every time the weather changes, let alone squeeze into waterproofs while getting wet or have to fit a liner in my jacket only to remove it half an hour later because I’m overheating. The Klim is the closest thing I’ve found to a jacket that handles it all - wet, dry, monsoon, and all four seasons.
 
fs996 said:
I’ve used vented laminated Klim up to 42c, although once you’re in the 30’s you’re better off with mesh and I may well buy one to take with me on my next European jaunt.

Since laminated doesn’t get saturated like a layered jacket would, they dry quickly. One often overlooked factor is that, in the UK you’re often dealing with rain one minute, sun the next, rain again etc. I don’t want to have to stop and change kit every time the weather changes, let alone squeeze into waterproofs while getting wet or have to fit a liner in my jacket only to remove it half an hour later because I’m overheating. The Klim is the closest thing I’ve found to a jacket that handles it all - wet, dry, monsoon, and all four seasons.
Click to expand...

Like you I think laminate, with some vents, is the default for the UK / northern Europe, possibly like you as I also live in one of the wetter / colder areas of the UK, but which does occasionally see the "summer", and it was a very nice day in Scotland this year. I've had the inner waterproofs before, and they lost their appeal after being in the 20 degrees C plus in the valleys and got three quarters of the way up the Col de La Bonnette when it started to rain, and be windy and quite close to freezing, and then trying to put the liners in.
 
John Armstrong said:
Like you I think laminate, with some vents, is the default for the UK / northern Europe, possibly like you as I also live in one of the wetter / colder areas of the UK, but which does occasionally see the "summer", and it was a very nice day in Scotland this year. I've had the inner waterproofs before, and they lost their appeal after being in the 20 degrees C plus in the valleys and got three quarters of the way up the Col de La Bonnette when it started to rain, and be windy and quite close to freezing, and then trying to put the liners in.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. The practicalities of managing waterproof liners when you might be covering hundreds of miles a day with lots of weather variation are just a pain in the arse. Some will claim they're fine but having been there/done that I'd say laminates are by far the better option. Granted, like anything they're not perfect, but for UK weather they will serve you well.
 
You can't beat a 3 ply laminate suit for UK weather, I use mine for 8 or 9 months of the year and it's fine up to about 25 degrees (doesn't get many days above that up North) and right down to sub zero with layers. It keeps me dry even in monsoon conditions. I had a Hein Gericke Pro V til it died after many years service and now very happy with BMW streetguard. I also have a summer mesh suit which I use for the few hot days we have and summer tours. Had it for about ten years and still going strong. IMHO you need two suits for the UK to both stay dry and cool. Drop in liners, boil in the bags and over suits are just too much of a pain.
 
Rukka Armacor laminated gore-tex with the storm collar twelve year old never been wet or cold,
BMW Rallye suit detachable gore-tex liner kept me dry in all conditions Keis heated jacket when it's cold
 
fs996 said:
I’ve used vented laminated Klim up to 42c, although once you’re in the 30’s you’re better off with mesh and I may well buy one to take with me on my next European jaunt.

Since laminated doesn’t get saturated like a layered jacket would, they dry quickly. One often overlooked factor is that, in the UK you’re often dealing with rain one minute, sun the next, rain again etc. I don’t want to have to stop and change kit every time the weather changes, let alone squeeze into waterproofs while getting wet or have to fit a liner in my jacket only to remove it half an hour later because I’m overheating. The Klim is the closest thing I’ve found to a jacket that handles it all - wet, dry, monsoon, and all four seasons.
Click to expand...

Yep. This is good advice. I hate having to change gear to suit the changing weather. For most UK weather I use my Rukka Nivala laminate jacket and a pair of Rokker Revolution waterproof jeans. This setup is properly waterproof and not too cold or hot from anywhere between 10 and 30C. If it's colder, I'll stick a pair of Merino leggings underneath and the Rukka down liner that comes with the Nivala. This is 90% of my riding wear. The Nivala down liner packs up really small and is also useful as a jacket off the bike.

If it's going to be really cold and rainy for a long period I will wear the Nivala pants with merino leggings or the down leggings that came with the Nivala. Sometimes I will substitute my heated jacket liner for the down jacket liner.

If it's going to be really hot, then I wear my Rukka Forsair Pro mesh jacket. If I go on a trip, I typically take the Nivala jacket and the Forsair jacket - but no armour in the Forsair so it packs up pretty small. If needed, I can always swap the armour from the Nivala to the Forsair.

For really hot trips, I will just take the Forsair mesh jacket but add a Scott Windbreaker (?) shirt and also pack the Nivala down jacket and an RST hi viz waterproof over jacket that also packs up super small. That way you have all the options for hot sunny plains up to pissing rain and snow on the top of an alp and it all packs really small.
 
Klim Marrakesh for Spring/Summer - mesh hence vented, but needs a waterproof to be carried if there's rain in the forecast

Rukka Goretex for everything else.

I've not had a waterproof drop liner jacket, but my pals tell me they are a pain to dry once wet and are uncomfortable to install/wear when damp.
 
Klim badlands suit - does it all for me , Death Valley on one of Sgt Bilcos trips to the Arctic on several occasions , hot open the zips , Cold close them , very cold , stick on a heated jacket .
 
fs996 said:
I’ve used vented laminated Klim up to 42c, although once you’re in the 30’s you’re better off with mesh and I may well buy one to take with me on my next European jaunt.

Since laminated doesn’t get saturated like a layered jacket would, they dry quickly. One often overlooked factor is that, in the UK you’re often dealing with rain one minute, sun the next, rain again etc. I don’t want to have to stop and change kit every time the weather changes, let alone squeeze into waterproofs while getting wet or have to fit a liner in my jacket only to remove it half an hour later because I’m overheating. The Klim is the closest thing I’ve found to a jacket that handles it all - wet, dry, monsoon, and all four seasons.
Click to expand...
I’d disagree about the mesh, mesh in the high 30’s and above is a very bad idea, dehydration is a big problem. Totally agree about the Klim Badlands probably one of the best do it all suits available. A well vented laminate is probably the best, although not perfect solution. I use a Klim Badlands in the summer for both uk & when on continental trips, has worked well in the very 30’s & low 40’s in Spain, unlike the mesh gear I tried one year. From the end of September to the end of April I wear a Rukka ArmaT suit with the Rukka DownX liner or a heated Keis jacket underneath. The Badlands works just as well but as I have both, I prefer the Rukka for the storm collar and better armour in winter.
 
jefformston said:
I’d disagree about the mesh, mesh in the high 30’s and above is a very bad idea, dehydration is a big problem. Totally agree about the Klim Badlands probably one of the best do it all suits available. A well vented laminate is probably the best, although not perfect solution. I use a Klim Badlands in the summer for both uk & when on continental trips, has worked well in the very 30’s & low 40’s in Spain, unlike the mesh gear I tried one year. From the end of September to the end of April I wear a Rukka ArmaT suit with the Rukka DownX liner or a heated Keis jacket underneath. The Badlands works just as well but as I have both, I prefer the Rukka for the storm collar and better armour in winter.
Click to expand...

I used an RST mesh in Vietnam in mid to high 30’s, it seemed to do the job. I’ve read about folk getting dehydrated wearing them but I guess if you’re sweating inside a goretex suit you’re getting dehydrated anyway. On future trips I’ll be taking a drink a bladder, and definitely a more lightweight jacket of some sort.
 
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