Traction control an flat spots

botus

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How many owners notice the traction control light come on regularly?

When I first test rode a TC (circa 2011) they had given me a warmed up bike and I instantly noticed its misfire / hold back within 200m of the dealership. As I got more used to the bike and the roads quietened down I realised it was traction control interference on any large throttle application around 4k mark. Swapping to what I thought was "sport" (for all intends and purposes) made it ride down the road with throttle cable correctly making the back wheel turn as instructed by the rider

Having just had ASC added to my old 2007 bike running sporty road tyres its the same. It will interfere at any point in a straight line under full acceleration when there is no possible hope of a loss of traction. BUT I have found this is only when you corrected the horrendous wrong fuelling.

Set up the way BMW do it the bike can't make enough power to make the TC cut in. But correct the over fuelling so it runs correctly and TC is on all day long. So you must select S mode before trying to ride the bike. The other dangerous issue with the default setting is pulling away it frequently has a moment and just dies - leaving you stranded and in dangerous situations. In S mode this can't happen, the bike is just safe with some extra drive line protection as you smash in and out of the craters we call roads.
 
TC has moved on a great deal since 2011 much less intrusive or much cleverer with when and how it cuts in

multi axis IMU that controlls it all now just work and work well IMO

my Streetfighter with all its BHP and torque rarely lights up the TC and even when it the torque mapping gizmo is operating to keep it all in check it isnt really noticeable

When it does become noticeable its just saved you !
 
It sounds to me like your rear shock is knackered. After replacing my worn out shocks on a 2011 GSA (Wilbers ESA went on) I don’t think my traction control kicked in again except on dirt tracks.
 
RedRick Esq. said:
TC has moved on a great deal since 2011 much less intrusive or much cleverer with when and how it cuts in

multi axis IMU that controlls it all now just work and work well IMO

my Streetfighter with all its BHP and torque rarely lights up the TC and even when it the torque mapping gizmo is operating to keep it all in check it isnt really noticeable

When it does become noticeable its just saved you !
Click to expand...

that's the marketing dream. the reality is a joke like it was

I had a 2017 adventure the reason I sold it was the TC couldn't be defeated and it wrecked the bike - only enduro pro got anywhere close to allowing the engine to do its thing BUT that turns off cruise control so it went

my 1290 super adventure was great but then had a safety recall and came back trashed... it no longer accelerates up the road like it did, and when you spend 6 hours playing space invaders to disable the TC, you find the throttle mapping was done by a psychopath and its 100% back to front and is basically unrideable - fly-by wire throttle first 30% does 85% of the go - you don't know that as the TC manages the mess - but post software update the mess really is just a mess

S mode on my current 2007 GS is better than either of those bikes above - I have yet to get it to cut in when I don't want it... but it does stop the crazy snatch down the driveline wrestling through potholes - so I don't need to be on 11/10ths throttle focus when just ambling round
 
AustinW said:
It sounds to me like your rear shock is knackered. After replacing my worn out shocks on a 2011 GSA (Wilbers ESA went on) I don’t think my traction control kicked in again except on dirt tracks.
Click to expand...

nope - its a three way damping WP and its brilliant (FYI I have a wilbers on the front and its only just better than stock) - I just like to rip it down the road

and your point wouldn't cover the (at the time) 9 month old 2011 TC with 3k miles on it I was considering buying approved used
 
Having just had ASC added to my old 2007 bike running sporty road tyres its the same. It will interfere at any point in a straight line under full acceleration when there is no possible hope of a loss of traction. BUT I have found this is only when you corrected the horrendous wrong fuelling.
Click to expand...

ASC added to a 2007 GS?
 
yep, any ABS2 bikes can have it (aka all air cooled GS' from 2007 to 2013 that came with ABS) - its £140 from your main dealer (to pay for the software licence) whilst all features appear to be on the motoscan app to try at home it doesn't enable it.... the VO (vehicle order - list of toys on the bike) needs updating - this somehow allows some magic on the bike so it connects all the bits up and works

you don't even need the switch on the bike.... (but the dealer shouldn't do the software without it) … a budget option - you can buy the old adventure switchgear with INFO, ESA and ABS on separate buttons off ebay - its the exact same switch - (just the don't tell BMW you didn't buy their ASC writing for £325)

oh I forget which works you 100% don't need the specific switch BMW say for £325

one of the far more common switches works … but I forget which for a CRAZY reason they make 3 switches with the three round buttons all wired different - when there was no need to do that at all. Best of all when you check you find under the blank you always had 3 working switches on your bike BUT its works a different feature and ITS not just redoing pin outs... Also Note the switch grey buttons are specifically handed to each location

I can't remember if this is the wrong one or not

BMW-R1200GS-ADVENTURE-L-H-Left-Combination-Switch.jpg



check page 60 for the way its supposed to look and work

http://glomstadmotor.no/upload/Bruksanvisninger/R models/R1200GSA/R1200GSA_2007_EN.pdf
 
I have a 2007 GSA. Wasn't aware this was an option at the time.

Don't really feel the need, as you point out, on those bikes to be honest.
But interesting to know.
 
they don't need it, I only added to protect the driveline and to have another toy for the hell of it...

I haven't tried but it maybe possible using motoscan to turn off cabbage mode and just have S mode from start up (which is what they all need)... its a separate tick box, but knowing BWM it will throw its teddies.

You definitely want the switch for one reason - unless you take you dongle and motoscan app with you - if an ABS sensor dies you could be stuck at the side of the road - With the switch or your app you can turn it off and just ride home.
 
I edited the post about the swtich - I also had a three round button switch off a K1200S it had a separate ASC button but not sure which one I have on the bike now
 
I'm interested in some of what you're saying here. But what is S mode? The damping on the ESA? Or is it adjustment to the nut between the bars?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
Slipperyeel said:
I'm interested in some of what you're saying here. But what is S mode? The damping on the ESA? Or is it adjustment to the nut between the bars?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


all air cooled bikes with ASC get three options

Off
On (default)
S (but its NOT Sport, the S is from the S of the GS name - as in off road mode - and is to allow a more sporty feel to get the back to tighten a line off road)

on my ramblings about throttle response and flat spots (vx800 and GS with booster plug...) on a few occasions I was saying its as if they built in traction control in the base map.... and they more or less did !!! Was is a fudge for noise regs or an attempt to stop it clashing with the ASC?

It has such massive gaps in the power curve its doesn't bother the ASR as the bike can't make enough go to push the rear tyre - any more than an 80 year old granny on a bicycle can. But as you try to fix the fuelling you can get in a pickle where a positive change in fuelling ends up with no discernible change on the road. So you go backwards and get confused.... Until you realise the ASC was holding the bike back and not the fuelling !

As you had the key off to change the engine map it reverts to cabbage mode. So long as you go to S mode the positive changes you make to the fuelling make sense and you unlock massive performance potential on the early bikes.

The reason I mention the Twin Cam Bikes, I guess they got the balance better and the engine runs better till the ASC in default setting with stock semi-off road tyres does cuts in under hard acceleration. On my Hex bike its the engine map holding it back. And of course without a change in fuelling it doesn't matter if you have default or S mode selected as its just a chasm of hell when nothing happens

If any with a with a Twin Cam bike doesn't believe me, fill with super unleaded let it settle till it almost makes some power and with it warned up in second gear on an empty road from 2800rpm just nail it on full throttle and stare at the instruments - it will be flickering like an idiot and will hold back. Then toggle to S mode and it drives up the road correctly. Depending on how flat your bike is, you might need to use first for it to have enough go to bother the tyre. Its all a combination of grip and rider effort
 
botus said:
all air cooled bikes with ASC get three options

Off
On (default)
S (but its NOT Sport, the S is from the S of the GS name - as in off road mode - and is to allow a more sporty feel to get the back to tighten a line off road)

on my ramblings about throttle response and flat spots (vx800 and GS with booster plug...) on a few occasions I was saying its as if they built in traction control in the base map.... and they more or less did !!! Was is a fudge for noise regs or an attempt to stop it clashing with the ASC?

It has such massive gaps in the power curve its doesn't bother the ASR as the bike can't make enough go to push the rear tyre - any more than an 80 year old granny on a bicycle can. But as you try to fix the fuelling you can get in a pickle where a positive change in fuelling ends up with no discernible change on the road. So you go backwards and get confused.... Until you realise the ASC was holding the bike back and not the fuelling !

As you had the key off to change the engine map it reverts to cabbage mode. So long as you go to S mode the positive changes you make to the fuelling make sense and you unlock massive performance potential on the early bikes.

The reason I mention the Twin Cam Bikes, I guess they got the balance better and the engine runs better till the ASC in default setting with stock semi-off road tyres does cuts in under hard acceleration. On my Hex bike its the engine map holding it back. And of course without a change in fuelling it doesn't matter if you have default or S mode selected as its just a chasm of hell when nothing happens

If any with a with a Twin Cam bike doesn't believe me, fill with super unleaded let it settle till it almost makes some power and with it warned up in second gear on an empty road from 2800rpm just nail it on full throttle and stare at the instruments - it will be flickering like an idiot and will hold back. Then toggle to S mode and it drives up the road correctly. Depending on how flat your bike is, you might need to use first for it to have enough go to bother the tyre. Its all a combination of grip and rider effort
Click to expand...
Thank you for that. I've never placed with the TCS (meaning it's just on as default I guess) and I never realised there was an S mode - I thought just On or Off.

I get what you're saying more clearly now and yes, I can sort of see how adjusting the fuelling might mess up the TCS. Though...I would have expected it to work through mechanical sensors (wheels turning, crank revs, gear selection etc)?

So in short, are you saying that with better power delivery (because of better, richer fuel mapping) you can cause the TCS to cut-in much sooner, like really often?!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
Slipperyeel said:
So in short, are you saying that with better power delivery (because of better, richer fuel mapping) you can cause the TCS to cut-in much sooner, like really often?!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

yes on my bike now (and should on any Twin Cam too)...

I started saying the Twin Cam bikes can activate ASC in default setting all the time - usually under normal hard acceleration around 4 to 6 k rpm the ASC is active (didn't say but inferred - warm engine, stock warm tyres, dry grippy surface). When toggled to grown up mode the bike behaves much better and will never hold back the engine power unnecessarily. They can't light up a tyre - it doesn't make enough power for that - unless you're on black ice / diesel - and anyway then S mode will help out

But my older hex bike with the current software has such a dip in the power between 4250 and 5250 it can't bother the ASC. But with the power commander taking 10% out on full throttle at 4750 rpm the engine runs happily and the ASC can intrude.

But the bigger thing that could kill you, once ASC is on a bike - pulling away hard maybe with a smidge of dust or small hole that you are well aware of and already anticipated might give 1 extra turn of the back wheel for less than a millisecond (...so who cares) can cause the ASC to go in to a total melt down and the bike cuts out dead for a huge amount of time and can take more than 10m to find its feet (in which time something could easily hit you)… this "feature" is never there if you always ride in S mode (thus those potentially fatal situations won't occur)
 
So, the takeaway is, don't ya'll bother retrofitting ASC on older hexheads. :D
It never needed it in the first place.
 
its "never needed on any GS 1200" however two places where it can help fast riders / the lazy...

1) reduces needless driveline abuse due to our terrible roads that are full of massive chasms with gravel round the edges. The bike and rider are Ok, but the poor shaft and bevels take an unnecessary kicking.
2) you're asleep at the wheel (bars), riding like a knob on poor surfaces and even when it gets lively can't be bothered to back off

as for a safety need - only a dealer special map on a demo 1200LC in enduro pro mode has enough to light up the tyre at 70mph off a slippery wet bend, the one you get to buy can't do it - should be a different situation on the 1250 especially when the emission nasty fuelling is resolved
 
1) reduces needless driveline abuse due to our terrible roads that are full of massive chasms with gravel round the edges. The bike and rider are Ok, but the poor shaft and bevels take an unnecessary kicking.
Click to expand...

Not 100% sure how much it can help as, if I remember correctly, the ASC was quite abrupt?
Compared to riding in other places in Europe, UK roads are on average decently surfaced.
Also, don't the bevels suffer more in sudden deceleration?

2) you're asleep at the wheel (bars), riding like a knob on poor surfaces and even when it gets lively can't be bothered to back off
Click to expand...

Don't see how that can happen.

But, again, personal choice: I've ridden my GS (and most of my other boxers) on all type of surfaces from billiard-smooth to shitty tarmac and smooth gravel to bogs, never really had a moment when I thought "I wish I had traction control" to be fair or where I thought it would have been helpful/necessary (as the ABS, instead, is).

I've experienced it on other type of bikes where it was, instead, magical :D
But very different situations I guess.
 
It is quite interesting when you review the rides on connected app as this indicates where and when TCS, ABS events occur, it also indicates the lean angle which can be fun.
 
I find the twin cam traction control very gentle.
When making spirited overtakes with a pillion, ( low gear high revs) it keeps the front wheel on the ground or very close to it, which helps avoid a wheelie and the "pack it in" from SHMBO.
 
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