Brake failure warning - my turn! 2011 TC GSA

Slipperyeel

Slipperyeel

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Looking for some thoughts. I'm now in the south of Germany after riding all day. Next stop Turin.

Somewhere along the journey, is guess about 2.5hrs in, I got a brake failure warning on the dash...but the brakes work just fine so I'm thinking it must be electronic.

Now there's a story attached to this. I'll try to keep it short:
Before these trips to Italy, which are around 2.5k miles there and back, I tend to check and change the oil in the FD - call me paranoid! But it's only 200ml. This time on draining the oil it was all emulsified so clearly water had gotten in. I dropped the FD also and found it to be dry and clean on the input side.
I decided the rubber vent had probably hardened with age, so bought another and fitted it - I also changed the oil again in the hope of perhaps ridding it of any residue water/moisture. Additionally, I had the speed sensor out to replace it's O-ring.

Fast forward to today. I'm guessing I've somehow buggered the sensor? Speedo is dead on start up for about 2 miles, then comes to life, so I guess the system is switching to the front sensor?

Are these sensors expensive? Are they sensitive to handling? I was deliberately gentle with it, but maybe it's age and the cable is damaged inside?

Thanks for any ideas

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
Mine came unclipped from the swing arm and got chafed by the wheel/disc after an FD oil change by a local bike shop, no speedo, flashing lights etc, brakes worked fine, but didn’t switch to front sensor, mine is an 06 so might not be the same as yours, the guy who did the job got a used one from motorworks for £65-70 IIRC. I had old one repaired by a lekkie at work but have never tested it on the bike, as it’s a pain to route when fitting. This was 3-4 yrs ago.

Al.
 
Assuming you rode from London to the middle of Germany before the warning arose, your brake function is still functioning, then is it possible you could have picked up a stone* of some sort between the front sensor and the pickup ring?
If you had been careless/rough/unlucky with your maintenance then surely it would have arisen before you cleared the M25?

For peace of mind remove the front sensor and wipe it over then replace. If nothing else it will make you feel occupied.

Safe journey to Touring.

*In this context stone means anything that stops the sensor sensing and so could just be microns or metres across.
 
The brakes should work fine. The anti lock braking system probably isn’t working though. I would be surprised if a new rear sensor won’t cure it.

BUT. It’ll probably happen again in a few thousand miles. At least mine did, several times. A rebuild of the FD (for other reasons) seemed to cure it for good.

I don’t think these sensor problems are linked to water ingress. My FD oil was always milky even after the rebuild. Most likely place for a leak is the breather - as you suspected. A new breather may help but they are in a very exposed location. I made a high level breather snd sealed it all up, or you can buy them from Touratech. It certainly helped reduce the mayonnaise effect but not totally.
 
Slipperyeel said:
Looking for some thoughts. I'm now in the south of Germany after riding all day. Next stop Turin.

Somewhere along the journey, is guess about 2.5hrs in, I got a brake failure warning on the dash...but the brakes work just fine so I'm thinking it must be electronic.

Now there's a story attached to this. I'll try to keep it short:
Before these trips to Italy, which are around 2.5k miles there and back, I tend to check and change the oil in the FD - call me paranoid! But it's only 200ml. This time on draining the oil it was all emulsified so clearly water had gotten in. I dropped the FD also and found it to be dry and clean on the input side.
I decided the rubber vent had probably hardened with age, so bought another and fitted it - I also changed the oil again in the hope of perhaps ridding it of any residue water/moisture. Additionally, I had the speed sensor out to replace it's O-ring.

Fast forward to today. I'm guessing I've somehow buggered the sensor? Speedo is dead on start up for about 2 miles, then comes to life, so I guess the system is switching to the front sensor?

Are these sensors expensive? Are they sensitive to handling? I was deliberately gentle with it, but maybe it's age and the cable is damaged inside?

Thanks for any ideas

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Same symptoms as when my 2011 rear sensor failed. Not expensive per se, I remember thinking it seemed over the odds for a small part, but in reality there is a bit to it. Quickest way I got one was off eBay for a different R1200 bike (i.e. not a GSA, same sensor, just a longer wire). The hardest part was getting the new o-ring to seat - was much easier with the old saggy one.
 
Bem said:
Assuming you rode from London to the middle of Germany before the warning arose, your brake function is still functioning, then is it possible you could have picked up a stone* of some sort between the front sensor and the pickup ring?
If you had been careless/rough/unlucky with your maintenance then surely it would have arisen before you cleared the M25?

For peace of mind remove the front sensor and wipe it over then replace. If nothing else it will make you feel occupied.

Safe journey to Touring.

*In this context stone means anything that stops the sensor sensing and so could just be microns or metres across.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I got all the way to Liege when the warning came on. So I agree with you, if I'd buggered it, then surely it would have been fairly immediate.

Didn't think of an obstruction of the sensor. I'll take a look. Though at this moment I'm convinced it must be the rear because that's the last place I was working on it...

Will report back

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
DevonAl said:
Mine came unclipped from the swing arm and got chafed by the wheel/disc after an FD oil change by a local bike shop, no speedo, flashing lights etc, brakes worked fine, but didn’t switch to front sensor, mine is an 06 so might not be the same as yours, the guy who did the job got a used one from motorworks for £65-70 IIRC. I had old one repaired by a lekkie at work but have never tested it on the bike, as it’s a pain to route when fitting. This was 3-4 yrs ago.

Al.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm thinking. Somehow the cable has be chaffed through.

It's -3 here right now so no way I'm gonna start pulling things off to look. Just noted I've not got abs or TCS (both could be handy right now!)

Friday I'll get into it. In a warm garage!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
AustinW said:
The brakes should work fine. The anti lock braking system probably isn’t working though. I would be surprised if a new rear sensor won’t cure it.

BUT. It’ll probably happen again in a few thousand miles. At least mine did, several times. A rebuild of the FD (for other reasons) seemed to cure it for good.

I don’t think these sensor problems are linked to water ingress. My FD oil was always milky even after the rebuild. Most likely place for a leak is the breather - as you suspected. A new breather may help but they are in a very exposed location. I made a high level breather snd sealed it all up, or you can buy them from Touratech. It certainly helped reduce the mayonnaise effect but not totally.
Click to expand...
This is interesting. Did you post something about this a while back?

For me the oil was already clear, albeit a fraction darker than fresh oil. But over the last few changes there had been dark whispy streaks in it. I'm now thinking it was the vent decaying it letting in grime. The drain magnet is always clean.

Not especially happy riding with emulsified oil, but I've filled and drained it 3 times in the last week to try and clear it...

High level vent is suddenly looking interesting!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
Doofus said:
Same symptoms as when my 2011 rear sensor failed. Not expensive per se, I remember thinking it seemed over the odds for a small part, but in reality there is a bit to it. Quickest way I got one was off eBay for a different R1200 bike (i.e. not a GSA, same sensor, just a longer wire). The hardest part was getting the new o-ring to seat - was much easier with the old saggy one.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. More useful info

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
I have my GS911 with me. Presumably that would show the fault? Might interested to try this after I get the rear wheel off and check the old fashioned way.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
the brushes in the ABS pump electric motor are seized - give it a whack it may work for another 6 months - this is a designed in failure mode for all ABS2 bikes and affects every vehicle made not just your GS

it can be repaired at home... one bod here used the module for a ford fiesta with his black electronics attached

https://youtu.be/6m2H-nC0CqE
 
botus said:
the brushes in the ABS pump electric motor are seized - give it a whack it may work for another 6 months - this is a designed in failure mode for all ABS2 bikes and affects every vehicle made not just your GS

it can be repaired at home... one bod here used the module for a ford fiesta with his black electronics attached

https://youtu.be/6m2H-nC0CqE
Click to expand...

Slipperyeel said:
That's what I'm thinking. Somehow the cable has be chaffed through.

It's -3 here right now so no way I'm gonna start pulling things off to look. Just noted I've not got abs or TCS (both could be handy right now!)

Friday I'll get into it. In a warm garage!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

He said in this post he's not got abs. So more likely to be the speed sensor as he suspects.
 
ah, OK - you sort of got me - except - brake failure without ABS to go wrong - that's even better - an imaginary fault ? As there's no fluid level sensor and no pad warning sensors on UK bike's (they do get these on some BMs in USA) how's the bike know they have gone wrong ?

surely it means speedo failure as if the owner can't see that ?
 
botus said:
ah, OK - you sort of got me - except - brake failure without ABS to go wrong - that's even better - an imaginary fault ? As there's no fluid level sensor and no pad warning sensors on UK bike's (they do get these on some BMs in USA) how's the bike know they have gone wrong ?

surely it means speedo failure as if the owner can't see that ?
Click to expand...

Read the opening post again. He explained all this.
 
gazza12adv said:
He said in this post he's not got abs. So more likely to be the speed sensor as he suspects.
Click to expand...

Depends how you read it.. he said he’s just noted he hasn’t got ABS or TCS . Does that mean he’s just noted the ABS/TCS is no longer working or ABS/TCS isn’t fitted ( you’d have thought he’d have known such basic information as if it has ABS/TCS when he bought the bike, who knows ?) …. In which case it’ll be one of the rear bulb filaments has blown, unless he has an LED rear light :D .. the op’s description of the problem ( if there is one) and all the relevant ( or irrelevant) information he’s posted is a confusing mess which makes diagnosing the problem nothing but guess work.. I don’t think it’s the first time the OP has had similar dramatic non problems when on a trip :D
 
Steptoe said:
Depends how you read it.. he said he’s just noted he hasn’t got ABS or TCS . Does that mean he’s just noted the ABS/TCS is no longer working or ABS/TCS isn’t fitted…. In which case it’ll be one of the rear bulb filaments has blown, unless he has an LED rear light :D .. the op’s description of the problem ( if there is one) and all the relevant ( or irrelevant) information posted is a confusing mess. :D
Click to expand...
Well, not sure it's a mess actually. I got 4 spot on responses quite quickly (thanks gents ).

You did however notice that I have 'noted' I no longer have abs or tcs! So you're at least paying attention to half of it

Read my opening post. There's eff all complicated about it except that I give background info about potential cause - fiddling with the rear wheel sensor, which may be the origin of the 'brake failure' warning - but looked liked that confused some people





Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
botus said:
ah, OK - you sort of got me - except - brake failure without ABS to go wrong - that's even better - an imaginary fault ? As there's no fluid level sensor and no pad warning sensors on UK bike's (they do get these on some BMs in USA) how's the bike know they have gone wrong ?

surely it means speedo failure as if the owner can't see that ?
Click to expand...
Thanks for that input - I mean it btw! But you've misread my comments. I've 'noted' that I no longer have abs/TCS because of this fault. Without the fault it does have both.

My bike is a later version - thankfully in this occasion!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
Slipperyeel said:
Thanks for that input - I mean it btw! But you've misread my comments. I've 'noted' that I no longer have abs/TCS because of this fault. Without the fault it does have both.

My bike is a later version - thankfully in this occasion!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

So under normal riding conditions without this fault you "have" got ABS/TCS,. it's only not there because of the fault. Yeah it's clear as mud. As steptoe said. It was a bit confusing. Or am I still confused , I'm sorry I read it as you saying the bike didn't have ABS in your later posts.
 
gazza12adv said:
So under normal riding conditions without this fault you "have" got ABS/TCS,. it's only not there because of the fault. Yeah it's clear as mud. As steptoe said. It was a bit confusing. Or am I still confused , I'm sorry I read it as you saying the bike didn't have ABS in your later posts.
Click to expand...


"So under normal riding conditions without this fault you "have" got ABS/TCS,. it's only not there because of the fault."

You've understood. So where is the confusion? .

I have re-read my comments above and as steppers says 'it depends how you read it', meaning I guess depending on your bias... It seems the first few to reply understood. But ok, maybe, just, it could be clearer

So to confirm. The bike has ABS,TCS and ESA. When there are no faults!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
Slipperyeel said:
So to confirm. The bike has ABS,TCS and ESA. When there are no faults!
Click to expand...

Well done. That’s the first time you’ve confirmed your bike had ABS/TCS/ESS. Previously all you said was that you didn’t have any ABS/TCS…. There was no mention of you having it and that it no longer worked ….. I answer emails, PM’s and phone calls, a large majority expect me to know which bike they have and it’s specification without giving me a single clue. You need a great deal of detail diagnosing problems when the vehicle involved isn’t in front of you. The Jess detail and the more people involved the more potential for feck-ups. Ambiguity and remote diagnoses can be the mother of all feck up’s .. Hope you get it sorted.
 
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